Socialization with an existing pack - male or bitch?

Hi,

I would like to get myself a staffbull puppy and integrate him/ her in an existing pack of 5 smaller dogs. The problem is that I am not sure, which gender the staffy should be. The existing dogs are 3 males (about 2 years of age) which are not neutered and 2 bitches (about 1 year of age) which are both neutered.

I am afraid that a male staffy could have a rumpus with the other males which would be dramatically because they are all smaller than the staffbull and they would definitely come out on the short end in case of a quarrel. If I would buy a bitch it would be a problem with her heat. I wouldn't like to neuter her too early but I don't have the possibility to separate the male dogs and the staffy bitch meanwhile. Now I'm really on the fence and I'm not sure if it is possible altogether to get myself a staffbull.

What do you think could be a solution? Thanks in advance for any help!

Kind regards
Joshua

With a group of dogs of that size, male or female doesn't matter too much, but it does depend on your current dogs temperaments. What breeds are they all? (I'm just being nosy more than anything, but it may help)

Totally understand about neutering too early and think you're making a wise decision, do you have any family that she could go for a little holiday with whilst in season if you cannot separate?

Thank you for your answer. The breeds of the other dogs:

• miniature pinscher (male)
  
• shih tzu (male)
  
• chihuahua (male)
  
• french bulldog (female, neutered)
  
• dachshund-yorkshire terrier mix (female, neutered)
  

I'm not sure if there is a real leader of the pack currently, maybe the shih tzu or the french bulldog (but she is a bit insecure because she wasn't well socialiced by the breeder). The chihuahua is the oldest and the smallest one, he is already 13 years old and quite cocksure of himself and fearless but he is not a leader and he is not a dog asking for trouble. The pinscher is also a bit anxious but I guess he is the most inconspicuous dog of the pack but he could become a beast if somebody wants to steal his food. The shih tzu is well-adjusted and calm but I guess he won't put up with being provoked by a staffy. And finally the dachshund-yorkie has a frenzied temperament but she is friendly with other dogs and also not a dog looking for trouble. She is the youngest dog in the pack.

Currently I don't know somebody who could look for the staffy instead of separating. But I also didn't look for somebody until now, I have to admit.

i'm no expert ..
but from what i've witnessed here and there ..
i.e staffys .. and smaller dogs ..
could be ww3
and it will be the smaller dog who loses out

~~~~~~

'lady' used to get along fine with next doors j.r. while he was here
but it only took one incident of an off lead agro yorkie to change things
( and today an off lead wiry j.r. approached all dominant like
( if 'lady' had not been on a lead .. it would have been very nasty

best of luck

Hello Well it sounds like they all have very different personalities. What about the dachshund-yorkshire terrier mix? Is she quite fiery? I could possibly see a clash with a stafford b*tch with another fiery terrier cross b*tch is all. And when girls don't get on they're scary!!

I think it depends on the personality of the stafford, my b*tch is very chilled and finds boisterous dogs a bit worrying. She gets on very well with my friend's chi x boy and loves playing with him. But then my last foster staffy boy was very boisterous and hot headed, and I wouldn't try him with toy breeds and he was just too full on.

Would you consider rescuing an adult stafford that you could let your dogs meet before, then you would know what you were getting yourself in for and would also be spayed/neutered before adoption so you wouldn't have to worry about that issue either?

The dachshund-yorkie girl is fiery but she is really friendly with other dogs as she is well socialiced. I guess she is more dachshund than yorkshire and she loves to play with others. I don't think that she would be a problem. The main problem I see is with the french bulldog and the shih-tzu, maybe also with the pinscher in case of jealousy about food.

I have considered rescuing an adult staffy and I would prefer doing this if there were not any other dogs at home but I guess that it is much easier to socialice a puppy than an adult. We had a yorkshire terrier from an animal shelter years ago. First he was the friendliest guy you can imagine but after two month he began to tyrannise the chihuahua (the one we still have) and the chi was really afraid of the yorkie after a short time. So we had big troubles and needed a dog psychologist. The yorkie was small but if it was a staffy for example I don't know if the chihuahua would be still alive. I think that it is much easier and less dangerous to socialice a puppy than an adult dog, isn't it?

Jo$hua wrote:Thank you for your answer. The breeds of the other dogs:

• miniature pinscher (male)
  
• shih tzu (male)
  
• chihuahua (male)
  
• french bulldog (female, neutered)
  
• dachshund-yorkshire terrier mix (female, neutered)
  

I'm not sure if there is a real leader of the pack currently, maybe the shih tzu or the french bulldog (but she is a bit insecure because she wasn't well socialiced by the breeder). The chihuahua is the oldest and the smallest one, he is already 13 years old and quite cocksure of himself and fearless but he is not a leader and he is not a dog asking for trouble. The pinscher is also a bit anxious but I guess he is the most inconspicuous dog of the pack but he could become a beast if somebody wants to steal his food. The shih tzu is well-adjusted and calm but I guess he won't put up with being provoked by a staffy. And finally the dachshund-yorkie has a frenzied temperament but she is friendly with other dogs and also not a dog looking for trouble. She is the youngest dog in the pack.

Currently I don't know somebody who could look for the staffy instead of separating. But I also didn't look for somebody until now, I have to admit.

The leader would not being looking for a fight at all or asking for a fight or be insecure, the leader would be very confident assure of themselves and calm, he will only have to look at the other dogs and they would understand.
a dominant dog would only fight at the last resort they don't need to prove themselves they know they are the top dog, aggressive dogs charge and don't look back, nervous dogs bark, dominant dogs circle each other being as big as possible there is no need for the fight unless the other dogs is just as imposing as them.
sounds like your Shih Tzu is top dog.
A staffy puppy is going to be as big as most of your dogs, have you thought about a rescue a cross who has been bred with a smaller terrier.
If your stuck on a pure staffy then i'd suggest a bitch but don't under estimate the fact that bitches will fight just as much as males would if not more well at least argue.
when it comes to seasons, separate rooms or kenneling at home or your local kennel.
Brought up together making sure all are calm and secure, socializing and do not allow bullying i can't see there being a problem i have seen staffy and larger more powerful dogs take the second in command position from tiny dogs, cats and even a parrot.

Amelie's post is right, the most problems that you will encounter would be from the "alpha wanna be's" who aren't actually at the top, but vying for position. A true top dog doesn't need aggression. A friend of mine has a pack of large American bulldog/Mastiff crosses and the top dog there is a tiny miniature English bull terrier lol! She wonders around without a care and is she calm, but the most problematic is the American bull dog who wants top position but isn't steady enough to get it and she runs around causing all sorts of trouble!

With rescue dogs, you've got to remember that they have to come from somewhere, not all are strays from bad homes. I had some wonderful, patient and well socialised dogs into my kennels that were only surrendered because their owners marriage had broken up, or they had lost their house for example, decent people that were heartbroken about giving their dogs up and they just needed a second chance. I'll admit, with bull breeds it may take a little longer to find a dog like this but they do exist! Although it's easier to socialise a pup properly, and you can do various behavioural "tests" at 8 weeks to learn about their personality type it's hard to be 100% There is a wonderful and responsible owner on this forum who socialised very well but his dog is still aggressive with other dogs. You also need to take prey drive into account, I've had staffords come into kennels who are fine with bigger dogs but have seen a toy breed running and gone in for the chase, in a similar way to sight hounds.

Ultimately, it can be a risk either way, taking in a pup with a group of small dogs or rescuing an adult, but you may even find an adult in rescue who has lived with toy breeds happily before, or is just so laid back they don't mind. My friends Yorkie is definitely the boss of my staffy lol! In the house my girl is wonderful with the toy breeds, but she does get over excited when they run in the field and it's taken me a long time to get her calm around them on walks, which she has now finally learnt they are not prey!!

Amelie wrote:
sounds like your Shih Tzu is top dog.
A staffy puppy is going to be as big as most of your dogs, have you thought about a rescue a cross who has been bred with a smaller terrier.
If your stuck on a pure staffy then i'd suggest a bitch but don't under estimate the fact that bitches will fight just as much as males would if not more well at least argue.
when it comes to seasons, separate rooms or kenneling at home or your local kennel.
Brought up together making sure all are calm and secure, socializing and do not allow bullying i can't see there being a problem i have seen staffy and larger more powerful dogs take the second in command position from tiny dogs, cats and even a parrot.

It could be the case that the Shih Tzu is the current leader but I guess the dachshund will take over the first position as soon as she becomes older. What's the reason you are suggesting a bitch? Personally I would prefer a male staffy because of the fact that separating a bitch from the other dogs isn't really practicable in my case and because I would like to avoid neutering her ever. I think males often don't really fight hard - it's more show. But bitches can be furies in case they don't like each other, don't you think so?

Rachel33 wrote:With rescue dogs, you've got to remember that they have to come from somewhere, not all are strays from bad homes. I had some wonderful, patient and well socialised dogs into my kennels that were only surrendered because their owners marriage had broken up, or they had lost their house for example, decent people that were heartbroken about giving their dogs up and they just needed a second chance. I'll admit, with bull breeds it may take a little longer to find a dog like this but they do exist! Although it's easier to socialise a pup properly, and you can do various behavioural "tests" at 8 weeks to learn about their personality type it's hard to be 100% There is a wonderful and responsible owner on this forum who socialised very well but his dog is still aggressive with other dogs. You also need to take prey drive into account, I've had staffords come into kennels who are fine with bigger dogs but have seen a toy breed running and gone in for the chase, in a similar way to sight hounds.

As I've already mentioned, I would immediately get a rescue dog if I would live alone. Most rescued animals are so damn grateful, that's amazing. I also own ferrets and all of them are from an animal shelter and they are all really great animals. But I also know that there CAN be problems with rescued dogs and especially with this breed. Here in the local animal shelter there are so many dogs from different breeds (AmStaff, Pitbull, ...) but they all have the remark: "Quarrelsome with other dogs". It is simply too much risk in my opinion. Even if the staffy would accept the other dogs it could change its mind at any point of time (as the rescued yorkie did, see my description above). But I know, there is no guarantee at all, not with a puppy and not with a rescued dog.

Jo$hua wrote:

Amelie wrote:
sounds like your Shih Tzu is top dog.
A staffy puppy is going to be as big as most of your dogs, have you thought about a rescue a cross who has been bred with a smaller terrier.
If your stuck on a pure staffy then i'd suggest a bitch but don't under estimate the fact that bitches will fight just as much as males would if not more well at least argue.
when it comes to seasons, separate rooms or kenneling at home or your local kennel.
Brought up together making sure all are calm and secure, socializing and do not allow bullying i can't see there being a problem i have seen staffy and larger more powerful dogs take the second in command position from tiny dogs, cats and even a parrot.

It could be the case that the Shih Tzu is the current leader but I guess the dachshund will take over the first position as soon as she becomes older. What's the reason you are suggesting a bitch? Personally I would prefer a male staffy because of the fact that separating a bitch from the other dogs isn't really practicable in my case and because I would like to avoid neutering her ever. I think males often don't really fight hard - it's more show. But bitches can be furies in case they don't like each other, don't you think so?

Simply because allot of first time staffordshire bull terrier owners, especially those with real experience find a bitch more manageable a male is likely to be twice as strong as all your other dogs put together if not more and some find this imposing..
but if you don't like the idea of kenneling during season, then i would suggest a male.
As for the rescuing thing, many seem to forget or not even contemplate that fact that there are hundreds of puppies in shelters too and even more under 1 year olds

Rachel33 wrote:With rescue dogs, you've got to remember that they have to come from somewhere, not all are strays from bad homes. I had some wonderful, patient and well socialised dogs into my kennels that were only surrendered because their owners marriage had broken up, or they had lost their house for example, decent people that were heartbroken about giving their dogs up and they just needed a second chance. I'll admit, with bull breeds it may take a little longer to find a dog like this but they do exist! Although it's easier to socialise a pup properly, and you can do various behavioural "tests" at 8 weeks to learn about their personality type it's hard to be 100% There is a wonderful and responsible owner on this forum who socialised very well but his dog is still aggressive with other dogs. You also need to take prey drive into account, I've had staffords come into kennels who are fine with bigger dogs but have seen a toy breed running and gone in for the chase, in a similar way to sight hounds.

As I've already mentioned, I would immediately get a rescue dog if I would live alone. Most rescued animals are so damn grateful, that's amazing. I also own ferrets and all of them are from an animal shelter and they are all really great animals. But I also know that there CAN be problems with rescued dogs and especially with this breed. Here in the local animal shelter there are so many dogs from different breeds (AmStaff, Pitbull, ...) but they all have the remark: "Quarrelsome with other dogs". It is simply too much risk in my opinion. Even if the staffy would accept the other dogs it could change its mind at any point of time (as the rescued yorkie did, see my description above). But I know, there is no guarantee at all, not with a puppy and not with a rescued dog.[/quote]

Okay, there's not much else I can suggest then really, even taking in a puppy or under a year from a rescue centre won't make a difference to you as you more than likely won't know the parents or set up with the breeder which will obviously all effect sociability. If handled properly dogs don't generally don't just "change their minds" or "snap" for no reason, as it's often described; there will be reason for this. I've worked in animal shelters for years and not all bull breeds are quarrelsome with other dogs, maybe you just went at an unlucky time or to a poor shelter, some shelters will also say this to cover themselves especially with stray bull breeds "just in case."

I understand that not everybody wants to rescue, and i'd never push it on anybody, but in your situation i'm just trying to go down each avenue to provide you with the answer that you want, however, there is not magic response. We've explored both the puppy and adoption route and haven't really resolved anything, so all I can say is; if in doubt, don't.