Cesar Millan rant (video)

I understand that Cesar Millan is the source of a huge debate with a lot of people, so I just want to say straight away that I'm not putting this thread up for people to get peed off with each other. If there are going to be any debates, please keep them friendly!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY-_vpo-Ayc

"So I let him run in circles... So he can tire himself and I can put him on his side... So he can relax..."

First off, earlier in the video, it's quite obvious that the yanking on the lead is pressing tightly on the dog's throat. He starts to gag after only a couple of seconds, showing that he is in pain and/or can't breath. Pay attention to the fact that he's also wearing a check chain, which can and does cause pain and discomfort when used inappropriately - i.e., using sustained pressure and yanking hard for a long period of time. Even though the lead isn't attached to the collar, it's likely that the collar would have been used before to yank him about, as he's 'out of control'. So the dog is likely to expect pain or severe pressure on his throat, associating pulling on the lead with said discomfort.

And yes, in a manner of speaking, the dog is tiring himself out, if that means asphyxiating to the point where his front legs collapse underneath him.

Also, before the dog bites or even gives him 'the look' which indicates he's on edge, Millan is yanking on the lead when the dog is already sitting by his side.

Never mind the fact that the dog was running in circles, yes, but was clearly trying to get away, rather than bite. The fact that he switched to both the fight and flight responses shows that he was frightened. There is absolutely no point trying to train a dog to behave by your standards when there is no trust there. Without trust, the only way to gain a dog's obedience is through fear training, as exhibited in the video.

Yet another video where he gets bitten:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofOCYXkU39U

And once again, after he used fear training, forcing the dog to confront an object with a negative association.

Thoughts?

Thoughts. Hmmmm.

I think a lot of members here know my views on Cesar Milan. He trains through fear/aversion and as such, I will not ever accept that his training is right and certainly not kind.

The videos show him strangling the dogs into submission. Both dogs have check chains/leads on which are being used innapropriately. It's no wonder he got bitten.

Any dog trained with fear has the propensity to overcome that fear one day & become aggressive when you least expect it.

Here's one of him hitting a dog in the face twice...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8fceK-i8pQ

My thoughts are - I totally agree with you Eleanor.

The second vid appeared to be (I don't understand Spanish so can't be sure) to teach the bulldog to leave the garden hose alone? I've got a simpler solution - shut the dog in the house when you water the garden.

Caryll's vid. Any dumbo can hit a dog in the face, they don't all get $$$$$ to do it though.

That's true.

I totally agree with you Eleanor & caryll

I'm not keen on his methods, that dog is tired through fear/stress exhaustion  

Well ill give you an example of where my training leans. Marley will push himself to the limit through fear and apprehension and then come back for praise while all I have to do is ask him to do a task. He does it because he trusts me 100% like I do him and he knows I wont ask him to do something I dont think he can do. And thats all through positive reinforced training. What may be hard to understand for some is that im not a ceaser basher, some things he does well and if you bother to read his whole life story you will see he does understand dogs but doesn't train like some of us do. He isnt the wicked dog beater hes sometimes made out to be but rather his own special way which isnt all bad.

Understand your opinion, Nathan, and where you're coming from. I don't deny that he understands dogs, but it's his methods in dealing with aggressive dogs that I have the problem with, which is what I was referring to with this thread. I have read his books and still believe that his theories and practices are misplaced in this day and age.

Just want to clear up that I don't have a problem with him as a person - I don't know him personally, so. This is just about his methods.

I'm sure he isn't a bad person and he probably does have the dogs' best interests at heart. I also have sympathy for the man, as he's recently been through a lot.

Eleanor wrote: but it's his methods in dealing with aggressive dogs that I have the problem with, which is what I was referring to with this thread. I have read his books and still believe that his theories and practices are misplaced in this day and age.

That where we both agree mate, and I'm sure they don't show everything on TV either. the dogs always look dejected and that's my point earlier in that a dog that fears you will only do things begrudgingly. I can encourage Marley past his fears to do something that he doesn't fell comfortable about because he trusts me, he also looks elated when he's done it. I'm not so sure you'd get a dog who's been trained with fear and overbearing dominance to do the same.

Definitely agree! Dogs will go past fear obstacles to please their owners, but I think that requires a certain measure of trust.