Irresponsible Breeding ??

Alright. So My Husband and I finally went to go see the Puppies and their parents ( after he made me wait impatiently all day) we didn't go until 3pm !! ugh!

All went well, as soon as the his co-workers wife opened the door we were greeted by the cat and the mum. Mummy is quite small! I wasn't expecting to see such a tiny Staffy mum when I got in the door but she's gorgeous The woman told us as soon as we stepped inside that the Dad was upstairs because she didn't want him to jump on us and all, But I told her that I don't mind being jumped up on bring him down. And so after my Husband took my lead (good boy!) and told her to bring him down she did. He didn't jump up on us at all util we had been there for a few minutes, and even then he didn't jump he simply stood up and started licking my husbands shirt to death Dad is also a very handsome dog all brindle.

The visit was going good. and THEN the woman opened her mouth. I've decided I really do not like her at all. Firstly she continued to call her dogs pit's and they're not pittbulls but I just bit my lip and said nothing.. She doesn't have the bitch nor the Dog registered, which is why the pups aren't (so that's WHY they said if we wanted papers we'd have to pay, because they don't even have papers.) @@ She said they're both pure breed, (which her husband told me also.) But the bombshell is yet to come. He told me everything I wanted to hear and his wife today told me everything I didn't. I didn't ask at all but we were talking she said she "We had to save $300 to buy these 2." I said " You got mum and dad at the same time?" she goes. "Yes, they're brother and sister from the same litter."

I think she realized by my lack of a reply at all that my wheels started turning. I looked at the puppies, they seem perfectly normal. and I'm just amazed that as she continued to talk and trip over herself she said " Animals are animals they mate with each other in the wild all the time, it's perfectly NORMAL for them to just mate. doesn't matter if they're brother and sister at all." I just can't believe what I was hearing.

Now. I've decided that I'm going to still get one of these pups anyways. They're already alive and here in the world. I'll take one in and love it no matter what. No matter what health problems may come. I also realized that it looks like our future furkid will need to keep a good report with his/her Vet. Just to make sure it's kept in as good health as possible.

She said that they got their shots at 4 weeks old, but that it was for Parvo ? or whatever. And they've not been wormed and they've not had any other shots. Some are still feeding off Mum. And some are eating puppy food already. She told us we could take one home today. We told her we wouldn't be able to take one home util 2 weeks from now. (they turn 6 weeks old on Wednesday.) Again. The puppies all seemed perfectly normal and acted like normal pups. But I'm thinking the reason those pups will never be registered is because they're way too ... related. Geez. Irresponsible people.

That's noble of you to take one of the pups, but don't forget that you're encouraging her to keep breeding irresponsibly. If you want to do something noble, then perhaps look into rescuing a dog?

Or am I wrong!? does it really truly not matter. I'm just completely baffled by this.. By the way, I took tons of pictures I'm just waiting to get them uploaded lol

I really wouldn't get one. If you want to be noble, go for a rescue, rather than encouraging idiots like this. It might be hard to leave them, but it is potentially far better for the dog population as a whole in the long run.

And if you don't get one, make it clear to her why you won't, as perhaps it might get her to change her ways.

I don't think the AKC would register the pup given it's genetic background. The parents both have to be registered as well I believe. Before making a deposit or getting a pup I would speak to a vet about the potential health risks associated with inbreeding so you will know what to expect. It may sound harsh but I would run away from that breeder as fast as possible.

No my Husband is going to say something to her husband, because apparently she said she thought the same thing too and he had reassured her that it doesn't matter. ...

Either way though, taking one of these pups or going to a rescue. Aren't I "rescuing" a dog either way? What will happen to these pups if no one takes them ?

This is just so. Crushing. Truly and utterly Crushing as her husband "the breeder" said nothing to me or my husband that these were "inbred" Dogs. I feel completely crushed.

inbred dogs have short lifes!! keep away dont buy one they dont do this in the wild only pack leaders mate sound like they dont have clue

If no one takes them they are likely to end up in a shelter. However if you do take them it will encourage the breeder to have another litter to make money. If no one takes the pups they may not breed again.

I would look for healthy pup tara we only get 10-12 years with our staffy you dont want a inbred dog that may die of cancer at a young age

You're right. I know that you're right. I just have to also make my Husband understand as I think sometimes I annoy the hell out of him with my, how do you say, Insecurities. But I see a red flag.. and I can't ignore it. And you're right,even if I did take one, I'd constantly be looking for problems. and then what? the kids get attached and it dies on us ? I think we'll be going to a shelter soon. Do you guys still want me to post the pictures ?

I am really. Truly. utterly. Heartbroken. Those poor puppies didn't ask for this ;-( I just don't understand people.

You dont have to go to a shelter, just be careful what you buy i prefer to buy a pup because i know his or her background which you dont get with a rescue dog.. but there a lot of dodgy breeders around that keep their dog(s) in family.

what do you mean by keep their dog(s) in family? My head is spinning. I mean I posted that the second I got in the door. I feel sick.

keep it in the family ect. half sister to half brothers, uncle to nieces, auntie to nephew and so on

Oi.. Should I post any of the pictures ?

I personally wouldn't get one from her either, she obviously doesn't care for the parents or the pups all she is seeing is pound signs, well in your case dollar signs I know it is difficult to walk away but I really think you should. You want to have a puppy you can enjoy for years to come, not one that will need constant trips to the vets for all the health issues it may have.
I'm really sorry honey to say this but you have been so good with researching things and coming on here asking for advice, and I know you really care but by getting one of these pups your just helping the woman carry on doing the things she shouldn't be doing.
I'm all for rescuing, Maggie was a rescue, they may have pups there for rehoming. If not then do some research and find a breeder who loves the breed and will do everything they can to insure you get a healthy happy pup. Of course its your decision and I know everyone on here will help you no end with everything, I just think you should think about it before you jump in.
Thats just my opinion

Fryfogle29 wrote:Oi.. Should I post any of the pictures ?

you can if you want

EmLou28 wrote:I personally wouldn't get one from her either, she obviously doesn't care for the parents or the pups all she is seeing is pound signs, well in your case dollar signs I know it is difficult to walk away but I really think you should. You want to have a puppy you can enjoy for years to come, not one that will need constant trips to the vets for all the health issues it may have.
I'm really sorry honey to say this but you have been so good with researching things and coming on here asking for advice, and I know you really care but by getting one of these pups your just helping the woman carry on doing the things she shouldn't be doing.
I'm all for rescuing, Maggie was a rescue, they may have pups there for rehoming. If not then do some research and find a breeder who loves the breed and will do everything they can to insure you get a healthy happy pup. Of course its your decision and I know everyone on here will help you no end with everything, I just think you should think about it before you jump in.
Thats just my opinion

Yeah. I guess that's why it's such a crushing moment. Because I've anticipated this for a week already. And been excited. I don't think I could NOT get a pup or a dog now, because I have just been so excited. Have a lot of thinking to do, and reasoning with the Hubby. I know that he's going to want to get one so that he doesn't hurt anyones feelings but in the end, whose going to be hurt worse them or us? I guess as cruel as it sounds, our feelings matter more. The dog he grew up with was put to sleep Christmas eve 4 years ago, and he's finally ready for another dog. I'm going to need to make him understand that if were to get one of these poor pups, that we wont be guaranteed 10 years with a HEALTHY happy pupp/dog. It's just so ... horrible the feeling I am feeling right now. I just feel like someone told me I lost my best friend.

What an irresponsible breeder! Ignorance is not an excuse! That breeder should have done her research and should know that brother-sister matings are a no-no.

http://www.akc.org/classified/search/index.cfm

look for staffordshire bull terrier on here

http://www.sbtca.com/

^^ these may help you find a breeder close by

Huge hugs hun >< I will only rescue and you never have a guarantee of the dogs history, its a chance you take.

What an awful blow.

I can totally understand why you want to take one of these poor pups, and I'd feel the same way. But if you do take it you'll be encouraging this *&%^) of a woman to breed again, probably at the bitch's next season and every season after that.

Walk away. The pup will be unregistered, and inbred to a high extent. You don't know what problems that could throw up in the future. The pup may stay healthy all its life, but it could also suffer from any number of genetic abnormalities/illnesses. Bad heart/kidney disease/instanding canines/poor skeletal development, plus goodness knows what else.

Thanks guys. It's good to know that no matter what we decide we'll have a support group. I wish there was a Better Breeder Bureau that you could turn these people into. Damn it all to Sam hill, I wish there was something I could do other than not get a pup to make these people PAY for their ignorance and irresponsibility. She didn't tell us that until near the end too when we were discussing when we'd be able to take a pup home. So .... angry right now

Fryfogle29 wrote:Thanks guys. It's good to know that no matter what we decide we'll have a support group. I wish there was a Better Breeder Bureau that you could turn these people into. Damn it all to Sam hill, I wish there was something I could do other than not get a pup to make these people PAY for their ignorance and irresponsibility. She didn't tell us that until near the end too when we were discussing when we'd be able to take a pup home. So .... angry right now

oh and here is a a picture

https://2img.net/h/i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o694/Tara_Fryfogle/th_TheDogs_zps0e7a10c8.png

Oh Damn that's so tiny

Oh Tara, I can understand that after looking forward to getting a pup and getting excited about it, and seeing dear little puppies which will steal your heart, you are feeling crushed that you stumbled across this totally irresponsible breeder.

Dear God, brother and sister mating - it will only lead to heartbreak for you and your family. PLEASE don't take on one of these puppies.

There are plenty of responsibly bred puppies out there - do take your time to find the right pup for you and your family.

From what I can see in the pics I would even question whether those pups are actually from that dog & bitch. I can't see the colour properly, but it just looks wrong.

Yeah, the Dog is all brindle. Most the of the pups are have brindle on them somewhere. There are 3 solid. 1 solid fawn and 2 that are like chocolate brown. What's odd to me is that all 8 of them have crystal blue eyes. Dad has gold eyes mum has dark brown eyes?

i can't seem to figure the pics thing out very well right now. So I'll maybe try to post better later. Husband's furious with me right now. he thinks this is a "minute" detail and I'm over reacting. He always thinks I'm over reacting. poor man, finally wants a dog and I'm shutting him down at the last second. ha ..usually works the other way around in this house.

I'm no colour genetics expert, but as far as I'm aware you can't get fawn pups from a blue x brindle mating? That's my understanding of it anyway.

The mum is obviously blue & white, is the dad blue brindle?

what a dilemma tara, but i agree with the more experienced people on here.

I would not take one of these dogs. If you do that is your own choice but you will take them knowing its likely that something horrible will happen. Aggression is ripe in very inbred dogs. I can't see the pics but if what Caryll is saying about the colors is true then you might even have a fighting ring that's breeding to get money for equipment. They frequently get two dogs to have as "show" parents whilst the real parents are chained up in some basement.

Fryfogle29 wrote:I am really. Truly. utterly. Heartbroken. Those poor puppies didn't ask for this ;-( I just don't understand people.

Hun, I feel this could end in tears. If your totally 100%about getting one of these puppys, I'd strongly recommed you speak to a vet. You could be setting yourself up for heartbreak. If i was you, I'd also tell these breeders about the damage they are doing by breeding brother to sister. They need educating. Personally, I'd walk away and put it down to experiance. Maybe you could report them to a Welfare organisation.

Please, Please, Report them

This sounds like someone has just bought two dogs for the sole purpose of making extra money. They are much two closely bred imo, and the woman doesn't sound like the person who would care about them.

I'm not 100% certain but I doubt they could be registered anyway being so closely bred. I have read up a bit about inbreeding after hearing others opinions on the forum and I can say I'd personally be scared of getting a pup with short life or major health problems being so closely bred.

I know they are already alive as you said and you are noble in wanting to take one to a good home, but you must think of yourself too. Can you imagine how it would feel to find out after a short time the puppy you pour your heart and soul into is seriously ill?

You sound like someone who really wants to care and love their animal, I think we all can see that from you. I'd be worried that you might end up with heart break

Horrible thing to have happened .. I really feel for you >< ... but as already said, please dont indirectly add to the BYB problem by handing over money to this type of cruelty

I really applaud you for thinking about the poor pups that are already here, but unfortunately helping them to get rid of this litter just makes way for the next one

I would deffo look elswhere, but would feel compelled to do my best to stop them doing this again ... the breed just dosent need it

I get why you'd still want one of the puppies. I'm sure they all looked healthy and adorable, but you just don't know at that age, and you can't know what goes on inside them. I wouldn't risk it. Dogs have much shorter life spans than us, it's horrible even when they live to be a good old age, but having one of those puppies puts the chances of a shorter death even higher, I'd imagine. Sorry to be so morbid, it's one of these things where you wish you could save all of the dogs in bad situations, but sometimes you have to be tough for the long run. If you can afford it, get a puppy from someone else, there's info on here about how to buy a puppy from a responsible breeder. Or you can get a rescue, of course.

I know it's heart-breaking for you that they got your hopes up, but at least you won't be contributing to the cycle of irresponsible breeding by making them think it gets the desires results. I got Loki from an irresponsible breeder because I didn't know any better, and I don't regret it of course, but when I get a second dog, I'm not going down that route again. You have the chance to change that before you actually get a puppy, so it feels horrible, but it's better in the long run, in my opinion.

Fryfogle29 wrote:i can't seem to figure the pics thing out very well right now. So I'll maybe try to post better later. Husband's furious with me right now. he thinks this is a "minute" detail and I'm over reacting. He always thinks I'm over reacting. poor man, finally wants a dog and I'm shutting him down at the last second. ha ..usually works the other way around in this house.

Maybe you can find links as to why such close inbreeding is bad? It's not a minute detail, it could end up with serious problems, I'd think.

Seriously don't buy one. Heartbreak and empty purse/wallet you could be constantly be at the vets for expensive treatments.

Oh no so sad, they sound like some dodgy people. And I think Caryll is right wouldn't you expect the dogs to be blue or at the least blue/fawn brindle I'm sure the blue would have to be the main coat colour. However the parent's genetics will be the same so there could be some recessive trait showing through (I can't see the pics as I'm at work but just speculating)!

I feel bad for you but seriously you should steer clear of these pups. You are only setting yourself up for heartache by getting one. As you said your hubby has only just managed to think about another dog after 4 years. I think it is better to research and find a reputable breeder who has had necessary health tests etc. It is sad but I think maybe you should explain all this to your OH, you don't want to end up with a dog with neurological or physical health problems which are much more common in inbred dogs. This is the strongest form of inbreeding you can do, worse than father to daughter matings as the parents both have the same parents themselves.

I really feel for you , I know you were excited . I wouldn't buy a pup from such a close mating myself . Let them struggle to sell them and tell them them why you are saying no. Maybe , hopefully it will put them off breeding again. You will find your pup/ dog , even if you have to wait a bit longer xx

Also they should be wormed from 2 wks every 2 wks until 12 weeks....perhaps they do things differently in the states though. I always thought that all pups are born with worms .

Oh no that's terrible.

I would defiantly not be buying off them if it were me, why pay for poor quality? These pups are likely to have all sorts of different health issues crop up during their life.

Terrible breeder avoid like the plague and don't give them a penny.

racamoe wrote:
Also they should be wormed from 2 wks every 2 wks until 12 weeks....perhaps they do things differently in the states though. I always thought that all pups are born with worms .

You're absolutely right.

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond everyone. (I'm not very good at the whole quote thing) especially more than one at a time, so I'll write this long so that hopefully it responds to everyone.

I now know and understand why all of those horrible feelings I felt in the very beginning were trying to warn me off THEN. And somehow the man my husband works with managed to calm those fears/nerves then. I WANTED to believe that it'd be alright. But at the end of the day, like always the UGLY truth rears it's head.

To refresh my main concerns were 1. He offered my husband a "Purebred" dog for FREE. ( they still are not wanting to charge us for a pup. they want us to take it for FREE.) And of course, now I understand why, I think they know that they can't possibly make money off of the poor things. To me this is the strongest most horrible evil in the world. 2. because the people never set right with me, I've always been able to judge a persons character and "feel" weather they're alright or not, but these people gave me the "weird" feeling from the first moment I met them, and that was before I knew they owned a dog at all. ( Feel so sorry for any of their pets now.) and lastly, I didn't understand the whole paper thing which really goes back to 1. because why would you GIVE for FREE a "Purebred" Dog.

Somehow I managed to ignore my initial intuitions and I've been reminded why a woman should NEVER ignore her gut instincts. When that damned woman told me through a snickering laugh that they were brother and sister from the same litter and called her Dog a "Dunkle" in a joking manner I very seriously had images of punching her in the face. I hated that she continued to call her dogs "Pittbulls" they're very clearly NOT freaking pit's

I've had a lot more time to sit and stew on this since my last post last night, I left to go stay with my sister in law last-night and I think my Husband thinks he has won this fight/argument with his parting. "Lets give the dog a chance. make it ours." But I can't. I know that I'm not the right person to willingly take on a dog that might one day go from licking me to death to biting my face off. I was 7 years old when I had my face nearly chewed off by a Rottweiler. (I had to have surgery to remove scar tissue so that kids in school would stop calling me scar face.) and to this day they're the only animal in the world I'm scared to death of. ... I don't have the strength to pour my heart into a dog, that has been denied the opportunity to truly be right. to be loved and know how to love unconditionally. I have cried and cried over the past 24 hours, thinking how incorrigible it is that these people have done this.

And whom ever said it, yes, perhaps with them calling their dogs "pittbulls" when they're Staffords ..perhaps there is a dog fighting ring, the man DID tell my husband that these are "fighter dogs" but that they're great dogs. This man KNOWS we have a family. I have a 5 year old little girl and a son whose about to turn 10 years old. they've never had a pet before, and they deserve to have one that is perfect in every way possible. I have almost literally been sick over this.

Let me ask you this. I do want to "turn them in" And I know most of you are in the UK, but how on earth and where on earth would I go to turn them in. I am infuriated with these people. And I know that when my Husband gets home, we're going to fight, but I WONT back down from something I feel so strongly about. I think after this it might be a while before I can think about taking in any dog at all.

Thank you all So very much for allowing me to post all my indiscretions and questions and comments even though I'm not a pet owner. I truly appreciate all that you do. Without the information in all of the links on this page, I would be just another suffered fool.

One last thing, I'm sorry I forgot to add this above. I know for sure that the mom was the mum, as her utters were swollen and still full of milk and as I said, at least half the pups were nursing off of her. I don't know how to tell if the dad was brindle or blue brindle. I'll work on posting the pictures so that you may get a better look.

The Dad. (Brindle)

You're definitely doing the right thing, argument or not. Tell your husband about the health risks (and temperament uncertainties) involved in a puppy whose parents are brother and sister. It really isn't a small issue, there are LOTS of puppies and older puppies and dogs that need rescuing or that have been bred by people who know what they're doing. Responsible breeders breed for temperament and health as well as everything else. And Staffs are such a people-friendly breed that it's extremely important that they stay that way to good breeders.

As for reporting them, we have the RSPCA, I guess you have a similar thing where you live, right? I'd report them to them if you can, see what they can do about it, if anything.

Honestly, I don't know if we have a similar thing. But you can bet your sweetness that I'm going to find out.

The Bitch.


and the following are the pups. Last one is close up of the one female pup.