blue staffords treated as lower class dogs?

this might be an unusual topic for some but as a blue owner at shows it seems as though people look down on us and not just me other blue owners too,and as i talk to other blue owners hearing their experiences it seems a common trend that judges seem to not know how to judge blues and pass them by.

I myself have passed by in a line up, not had my dog examined as long as other more popular colours,been shown out of the ring without any kind of examination at the end of judging other than being "looked at",i have witnessed similar behaviour also.
I know owning a dog that's something out of the ordinary will be hard work getting noticed but they are a recognised colour they have tails and teeth and paws everything the same as other dogs,so why are they not treated as fairly in judging?
I appreciate that some matings can produce bad dogs but that is the same for any colour any breed the dog didn't choose to be born.
the only way i can see that good blue dogs be taken seriously is if we were to organise what shows we went to and show a true blue front so that we had to be taken seriously and judged fairly,
what are other peoples thoughts on this?

A good judge will give the same attention to a dog no matter the colour (unless it'a a colour that isn't allowed, of course). If the judge passed him by because of his colour then he was a bad judge - avoid at all costs in future!

I think the main problem is that because so many bad breeders are breeding purely for colour, there are a lot of poorly constructed blue staffs out there & many of them have very bad skin problems. I'm not aiming that at you or any others on this forum, just mentioning it as a general fact.

Very few blue staffs seen in the show ring are top quality. Pets, yes but not show dogs & because of that some judges will assume that any blue dog is poor. As I said, that's a bad judge.

Interesting observation.

I have been to a few shows since we got Cal, watching our breeder showing her dogs. I'm trying to remember if I've ever even seen a blue one in the ring, and I don't think ever just on the street, though I have met a few (gorgeous) blue pits out and about. I wonder if they are more common in the UK.

I don't know anything about showing dogs or anything like that, but I've noticed that when puppies are being sold, blue Staffs are more expensive, and they've always had it advertised on how great their lines are and whatever, so that's quite surprising, I would've expected the opposite. I assumed blue Staffs were seen as the "best" so to speak. I reckon that any judge who doesn't give a blue Staff the same attention is a bad judge though.

micheled wrote: I wonder if they are more common in the UK.

They're becoming very common in the UK.

ANattyRat wrote:I don't know anything about showing dogs or anything like that, but I've noticed that when puppies are being sold, blue Staffs are more expensive, and they've always had it advertised on how great their lines are and whatever, so that's quite surprising, I would've expected the opposite. I assumed blue Staffs were seen as the "best" so to speak. I reckon that any judge who doesn't give a blue Staff the same attention is a bad judge though.

No colour should be more expensive than any other. There are some very well bred blue staffs out there, but there are also some extremely poor ones, bred purely for their colour.

i agree there are a lot of poor dogs out there that have been bred for colour and top price regardless of health to the poor dogs, I myself have seen an extreme case of poor breeding and the poor little dog is so ill but that is the extreme case and not bred carefully,but with careful breeding from good dogs to produce a healthy dog in good condition why are they still not recognised as good dogs after all they are the same breed or is it dog racism? i own a blue because i love the colour she comes from i.m.o "old stock" as in not a lot of breeding from the same dogs she has no health issues has the correct look and is my best friend most importantly and we enjoy the work we do and she is a real talking point.
as for the judges i'm not sure how they view blue dogs but i can only comment on my experiences in the ring and from other owners,i won't give up i will continue showing as long as bonnie enjoys it but along the way i'd like to see a change in judges opinions not just for my dog but for blues in general.

i was talking to a breeder of blues who's prices were £850 to £950, where another breeder would be around £400 to £600 of a more accepted colour.

That's what I mean. A blue shouldn't be more expensive than any other colour, as it's just a dilute of black.

I think that judges have seen so many poor quality blues in the show ring & have seen the back yard breeders churn out so many blues for the colour alone, that yes, they a bit prejudiced against them. Last year, for example, in the UK almost half of all stafford registrations with the KC were blue & a great many of those were from blue toblue matings & therefore bred mainly if not totally for colour.

Yes, it does mean that someone who has a really good blue may suffer in the show ring, but sooner or later a good judge will spot a good dog regardless of colour.

Hi just got back from showing and there are 4 of us with 6 blue staffys done very well with 5 th and a 6th place with ice and a 3rd and 2nd with bazil , a first and over all winner with blue belle and best of all Blake won a third and has qualified for cruffs so happy for all the dogs and we are flying the blue staffy flag as high as we can

From what i can gather Blue staffs were not recognized by the KC until the 1980s, they were seen as a poor black Staff with poor pigmentation which of course is nonsense, maybe some KC judges still hold that view ?, we were shocked though at the price of some of the Blue's when we were looking for a pup £900 some of them but they are true blue's , a friend bought what he thought was a Blue puppy last year its now brindle ,so i suppose you have to be carefull or is it a case of you get what you pay for ?.

to get the best of the best blue colour both parents as to be black... to bred good healthy blue litters you mate a blue with a black keep away from breeders who mate 2 blue dogs together or wanting over the odd for a pup.

Thanks for that Steve i would have told my mate that last year if i would have known

Well done with the placings & with the qualification! If you enter, I'll see you at Crufts! As I said, a good blue will get recognised!

The blue colouring often has poor pigment (is showing a slate grey nose instead of black) which is why many people in the show world don't like them much. Also, there's nothing wrong with a blue brindle! If you're going to accept blues, then you have to accept blue brindles!

If I were to breed my blue I have in mind a lovely black dog who had 2 blue sisters they were bred from black dogs so blues from blacks are possible and produce a deep blue from what I've seen.

If your dogs good enough regardless of colour it will be placed.
If you like a challenge keep at it
The show ring is dominated with blacks, but reds are making a come back, pieds are on the increase but have to be marked right, and a pure white they are very few and far between and most get over looked too.

Just dont take it to heart, its the judges opinion at the end of the day and everyone takes home the best dog.

Thanks carryl will see you at crufts we went this year and there was a blue there and it's was great to see

We'll have to find a way to meet up!

My blue boy has 2 brindle stripes (small) on each thigh and 1 between his shoulders, I love the brindle in him. His blue coat is darker than my girls. And his nose is darker. He has goegeous jet black nails too, whereas my girls are just dark, not black.
So u do get quite a variation with blues x

I've seen blues from one end of the spectrum to the other ! But bottom line is, I love my 2 furbies xx!

A blue/blue brindle show is what we need ... I'd travel to see that

I went to a show a year or two back, and I know what you mean ... it was dominated by small tight looking black dogs, and reds, but to be fair, they were perfect examples of the "standard" so fair play to um .... there was one blue in the adult class that was completely overlooked in the ring, but that was because he wasnt that good TBH (and I'm no judge!!) ... I went and spoke to the handler/owner, and he said he never comes anywhere but just loves competeing anyway

You can see bad examples of blues everywhere thanks to BYB's, but I would love to see a deep blue standard dog in a show ... (that said, I am really a fan of what I see as the older style staffy, slightly bigger and a little leggy, with lots of muscle, but thats just my taste, and why I searched for Max the way I did )

A blue dominated show would be cool because then you'd get a full spectrum of blues and judge them together and out of them a standard would form so would weed out the byb and give the good ones a chance.I'm not by any means saying mine is perfect I expect to win I do it as an extension from our classes and she loves the attention and I can think of nothing better to do than be with my dogs for the day.I just expect at the minimum to be judged fairly.

Why don't we form a blue staffy club and attend shows together to become something and change the opinions of some judges to give them more of an example to judge instead of being seen as something of a rarity.

That's what we are doing we flood the shows with around 6 blue staffys from small tight blue staffys to big bull type blue staffys altogether this week end we came out with 7 places from 6 to 1st place and 1 of the blues has just got placed at crufts come on the blue staffys

Personally I feel in general shows are not about what you have but about who you know.

Blues are looked down on in England but I found in other countries in Europe, especially in the Netherlands, they really love them and also Spain etc.

My breeder of my blue boy, has had a lot of handlers come from the Netherlands, America and Spain to come buy puppies from her because of their popularity over there. She even sends the sires sperm to some!


I paid £1,000 for my blue boy.. Took ages to find a legit blue breeder.

Sophie-x wrote:I paid £1,000 for my blue boy.. Took ages to find a legit blue breeder.

You see that's what I don't like. Any breeder that charges more for a blue just because it's blue is a crook. I'm sorry if that offends - it isn't aimed at you, although I wonder what you mean by a legit blue breeder.

Good blues are born from non blue parents or from one blue & one standard colour parent.

Caryll wrote:

Sophie-x wrote:I paid £1,000 for my blue boy.. Took ages to find a legit blue breeder.

You see that's what I don't like. Any breeder that charges more for a blue just because it's blue is a crook. I'm sorry if that offends - it isn't aimed at you, although I wonder what you mean by a legit blue breeder.

Good blues are born from non blue parents or from one blue & one standard colour parent.

What I mean by legit lovely, is a breeder who well, breeds right. I'm not too concerned if he's properly blue, I just wasn't fussed by paying good money for a nicely bred, well looked after dog.
Took ages to find a blue that wasn't off some dodgy backstreet breeder who claims their dog is the best thing since sliced bread, posts fake parent pictures and can't seem to find the parents when you ask to come visit?! The best excuse I had was "Oh that weekend you're free? Sorry i've sent them on a nice weekend away to relax after the ordeal of being parents".

Very few care about the dogs themselves these days..

I think showing should be fun for you and your dog and when its not then maybe its not for you. You have to look at your own dog as a judge would positives and negatives even though to yourself you have the best dog at the show. The best is determined by looks, touch, comformation to the standard, movement, presentation, presence and ultimatley the wow facter.
To be fair on the uk its probably the most competetive country the standard here is very high.
Regardless of colours the judge should go over every dog the same and watch its movement once thats happened they will probably have there top 3 in mind and then it may look like they are dismissing the rest not giving them the same chance.
Blue colour is at a disadvantage from the judges point of veiw as pigmentation isnt as good as other colours so ultimatly a blue dog would have to be the better conformed dog.
Im sure a black/brindle dog has to carry the dilute gene to produce blue puppies you cant just use a black dog and I think thats why everyone is breeding blue to blue to guarentee blue pups.
Conformation before colour for me always

Congratulations on your success id love to have seen it and brought mine along too.

gem wrote:I think showing should be fun for you and your dog and when its not then maybe its not for you. You have to look at your own dog as a judge would positives and negatives even though to yourself you have the best dog at the show. The best is determined by looks, touch, comformation to the standard, movement, presentation, presence and ultimatley the wow facter.
To be fair on the uk its probably the most competetive country the standard here is very high.
Regardless of colours the judge should go over every dog the same and watch its movement once thats happened they will probably have there top 3 in mind and then it may look like they are dismissing the rest not giving them the same chance.
Blue colour is at a disadvantage from the judges point of veiw as pigmentation isnt as good as other colours so ultimatly a blue dog would have to be the better conformed dog.
Im sure a black/brindle dog has to carry the dilute gene to produce blue puppies you cant just use a black dog and I think thats why everyone is breeding blue to blue to guarentee blue pups.
Conformation before colour for me always

A good breed will bred black with blue so you will get atleast half the litter blue then you can use the black pups for future breeding, Only bad breeders bred blue with blue...

If you want a truly well bred blue you'll almost certainly have a wait, and you'll need to do a fair bit of research. The research not only involves finding a good breeder (the most important part) but also checking the sire & dam's pedigrees to see whether there are any good blues in the background. There are blues born in litters from two non-blue parents and these are generally the ones with the best colour. Or as Steve says, go for a pup from a blue x other colour dog - not blue x blue.

Valglo Singin the blues is a nice blue, quite top-sized but he is lovely. My friend who has a bitch I bred is hoping to use him on her.

hi just a quick photo from the show were all the blue staffys stole the show winning 9 places from first all the way to 6th against all breeds of dogs come on you blues

No. 4 is a very nice looking dog.

yep he has got a lovely bull look about him he is also the dad of the blue staffy with me in the yellow t shirt he is a lovely looking dog

Nosipho wrote:Valglo Singin the blues is a nice blue, quite top-sized but he is lovely. My friend who has a bitch I bred is hoping to use him on her.

My blue brindle bruce is sired by the son of valglo singin the blues, he's only 17 months old but turning into a beautiful dog, great head on him, lovely stance and perfect tail. Amazing placid temperment. Ill try get some pics up on here but its effort, have to go through imageshack don't you? I'm looking on studding him out in the future

Vinnie's dad was blue and his mum was black & white, he was £350, not sure why someone would charge 1,000 for a staff just because it is blue!

derbystaff wrote:

Nosipho wrote:Valglo Singin the blues is a nice blue, quite top-sized but he is lovely. My friend who has a bitch I bred is hoping to use him on her.

My blue brindle bruce is sired by the son of valglo singin the blues, he's only 17 months old but turning into a beautiful dog, great head on him, lovely stance and perfect tail. Amazing placid temperment. Ill try get some pics up on here but its effort, have to go through imageshack don't you? I'm looking on studding him out in the future

Don't forget you'll need to have the health tests in place (L2-HGA & HC) & so will the bitch!

Here's how to post pics...
https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/t12017-how-to-post-a-photos-onto-the-forum

x0gawjus0x wrote:Vinnie's dad was blue and his mum was black & white, he was £350, not sure why someone would charge 1,000 for a staff just because it is blue!

i would never pay £1,000 for a blue dog

x0gawjus0x wrote:Vinnie's dad was blue and his mum was black & white, he was £350, not sure why someone would charge 1,000 for a staff just because it is blue!

And Vinnie's a beauty!

Its a difficult one with pricing I mean vet bills food bills and stud fee have to be covered and the puppies must be of the best health at no cost then take into account research into lines etc maybe.but mixed pricing in one litter I really don't get because that is just greed but £1000 for a blue I'm really not sure how that works as unfortunately I keep hearing people say most blues are nowhere near the standard sadly and while I totally support blues and fair judging and breeding there seems such a mixed bag of them against blacks which all pretty much look the same near to the standard.which is why they don't get judged fairly I imagine.also is there a blue champion to date from the huge number of blues out there? I'm not sure but I can't recall one of the top of my head.I think there should be a common blue interest formed where everybody can get together and get their dog out there in front of the judges as a large number instead of bein a rarity and maybe overlooked.

Cheers for the link, he's L2 HGA + HC clear by parents, would I need to test him?

If he's clear by parents then no u wouldn't need to x

Steve wrote:

gem wrote:I think showing should be fun for you and your dog and when its not then maybe its not for you. You have to look at your own dog as a judge would positives and negatives even though to yourself you have the best dog at the show. The best is determined by looks, touch, comformation to the standard, movement, presentation, presence and ultimatley the wow facter.
To be fair on the uk its probably the most competetive country the standard here is very high.
Regardless of colours the judge should go over every dog the same and watch its movement once thats happened they will probably have there top 3 in mind and then it may look like they are dismissing the rest not giving them the same chance.
Blue colour is at a disadvantage from the judges point of veiw as pigmentation isnt as good as other colours so ultimatly a blue dog would have to be the better conformed dog.
Im sure a black/brindle dog has to carry the dilute gene to produce blue puppies you cant just use a black dog and I think thats why everyone is breeding blue to blue to guarentee blue pups.
Conformation before colour for me always

A good breed will bred black with blue so you will get atleast half the litter blue then you can use the black pups for future breeding, Only bad breeders bred blue with blue...

My understanding of breeding blue is
If you breed black brindle (who doesnt carry the dilute gene) with blue you will get a full litter of black brindle puppies and some or all of the pups will inherit the dilute gene, when you breed from the next generation then you will probably get some blue pups.
If you breed from black brindle a (known carrier of the dilute gene) then you may get half the litter blue.
Breeding blue to blue guarentees a full litter of blue pups $-)
Many breeders are careful to keep out the dilute gene from future breeding as beautiful the colour is we need a good balance of all the other colours too, litter registrations will reflect whos breeding what and if I can recal correctly a good half in the last few years reg are blue thats not including unregistered dogs

There are a lot of good blues and good dilute blues also some not so good dogs but to be fair the dogs should be judged as a dog not just a colour or breed

gem wrote:

Steve wrote:

gem wrote:I think showing should be fun for you and your dog and when its not then maybe its not for you. You have to look at your own dog as a judge would positives and negatives even though to yourself you have the best dog at the show. The best is determined by looks, touch, comformation to the standard, movement, presentation, presence and ultimatley the wow facter.
To be fair on the uk its probably the most competetive country the standard here is very high.
Regardless of colours the judge should go over every dog the same and watch its movement once thats happened they will probably have there top 3 in mind and then it may look like they are dismissing the rest not giving them the same chance.
Blue colour is at a disadvantage from the judges point of veiw as pigmentation isnt as good as other colours so ultimatly a blue dog would have to be the better conformed dog.
Im sure a black/brindle dog has to carry the dilute gene to produce blue puppies you cant just use a black dog and I think thats why everyone is breeding blue to blue to guarentee blue pups.
Conformation before colour for me always

A good breed will bred black with blue so you will get atleast half the litter blue then you can use the black pups for future breeding, Only bad breeders bred blue with blue...

My understanding of breeding blue is
If you breed black brindle (who doesnt carry the dilute gene) with blue you will get a full litter of black brindle puppies and some or all of the pups will inherit the dilute gene, when you breed from the next generation then you will probably get some blue pups.
If you breed from black brindle a (known carrier of the dilute gene) then you may get half the litter blue.
Breeding blue to blue guarentees a full litter of blue pups $-)
Many breeders are careful to keep out the dilute gene from future breeding as beautiful the colour is we need a good balance of all the other colours too, litter registrations will reflect whos breeding what and if I can recal correctly a good half in the last few years reg are blue thats not including unregistered dogs

breeding blue with blue you increase the rick of CDA https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/t17716-colour-dilution-alopecia which why a good breed wouldn't bred 2 blue together.

All dogs should be judged equal whatever colour,blue is a registered colour be it dark blue/grey or light blue/silver its still blue.a lot of time goes into all our dogs they're our best friend but why should one persons work and love for they're dog be dismissed so quickly by people.

Thank god some one who doesn't want to turn the debate into the dilute debate hear hear the dogs should be judged as a k9 not as a colour isn't that racism in the k9 world

lolabon wrote:All dogs should be judged equal whatever colour,blue is a registered colour be it dark blue/grey or light blue/silver its still blue.a lot of time goes into all our dogs they're our best friend but why should one persons work and love for they're dog be dismissed so quickly by people.

I could not agree more

If the majority of registered blues exceeds all other colours then where are they? Hiding in the shadows due to the negative reaction maybe,if winning was so high on peoples lists then jump aboard the black brindle train as they are all we see not the highest registered colour.time for a blue revolution.

jumping on the black brindle train?

By which I mean all the comments I get from people telling me I'm wrong to buy a blue dog and should buy a black/brindle dog if I want to get anywhere.