Mating blue staffords??

I have been on the hunt for a blue stafford pup for a short while and while looking have been trying to educate myself on the correct breeding of them.
I have found a couple of 'reputable' breeders, one in Ireland and one in England. Have been speaking to both over the phone and both have conflicting stories/methods.
Have to say that the English lady seems to be the more interested in breeding for good quality pedigree pups rather than their colour. The Irish man has been breeding blues purely for their colour for a couple of years and is charging much more than his English counterpart.

The English breeder informed me that 2 blue dogs should not be mated as this may create health problems with the pups and possibly carry these problems down their lines.
The Irish breeder basically said this was rubbish and it is perfectly normal to mate 2 dogs of the same colour, blues included. Said he has been doing this for a few years and has had no problems so far.
Both breeders are reg'd with their respective kc's and follow all the usual guidelines and processes before handing over pups.
One other difference is that the Irish breeder is willing to let pups go 'when they are big enough' while the English breeder will not release pups until at least 8 weeks and said sometimes 10. 8-10 weeks seems more reasonable to me and in my experience is necessary.

I would like to hear some of your thoughts the above points.

I'd go with the English breeder. She sounds like she has the dogs' welfare to heart far more than the Irish one.

Quite apart from the blue to blue controversy, I'd be very reluctant to buy from someone who
a. Breeds for colour & then charges more for it &
b. Lets a pup go because it's 'big enough' rather than when it's at least 8 weeks old.

I don't want to get on to the old discussion of breeding two blues together - there are many on this forum who have beautiful, healthy dogs that are the progeny of two blue parents. However, there are known problems with blue to blue matings which won't always show in every pup, but pose a problem with a high percentage of pups born.

Agree with caryll

Go for the english breeder. The Irish one sounds really dodgy and i would actually think about reporting him he could be a puppy farm.

Agree with the above ... only thing I would add, is that given a choice about collection once you've picked the pup for you, is get them home with you as close to the 8wks as poss ... no sooner, but I wouldnt leave it any longer if at all poss ... I strongly beleive that a pup that stays with the litter longer, is MUCH harder to train/bond with as their new owner ... but thats just the opinion of my wife and I

It is possible that this guy could be running a puppy farm.
When I called today all the pups on the current ad were gone but said he already has two bitches in pup already.
He has a total of 8 staffs, all blue.
He said he has 2 main stud dogs, Bowser and another called Zeus.
I let him know I had a little info on Bowser but asked about Zeus only to be told that he was a pup from a previous litter from one of his bitches. This to me is bizarre. As I would have thought a dog had to be at least 18 months to sire a litter . And at least be confident that the pups are going to be of a reasonable standard. I dont think he mated him with the mother but he didn't say.
He only said that one litter is from Bowser and the other is from Zeus.
The reason he kept him was there was no white on him not because of any other attributes he may have. This also worried me.
I know this is ringing a lot of alarm bells for me but the pedigree dog scene is new to me. The only dogs I ever owned before were crosses.

find a new breeder

Wasn't sure until I read the posts this afternoon. So I contacted him only to be told what I have written above.
My dilemma Steve is not the finding of a new breeder. That has been decided since I hung up the phone to him today its just that I'm not sure what action if any I should take here. If I suspect a puppy farm who do I contact?
The KC ? The ISPCA? or the police? Or all of the above?

If you want a nice shade of blue-grey its best to get one from non blue or one blue parent. Constantly breeding blues together dilutes the fur and the dog has more chance of fading as it gets older. The same thing happens with constantly breeding red dogs together, it's hard to keep getting a rich wheaten shade and the progeny start to get lighter and more fawn.
The Irish breeder sounds massively dodgy. Report him to the KC and RSPCA. No one should breed purely for colour, health and temperament are the most important thing in any dog before we even get onto to what it looks like.

Thats good to know about the colour fading. I didn't know that could happen.
The English breeder is breeding from a champion black dog and a blue bitch.
I will contact the IKC and the ISPCA on Monday. I will let you know what they say.

Unfortunately there's very little (if anything at all) that the IKC or the ISPCA can do. There's no law to stop someone breeding dog a to bitch b. There are sometimes bylaws to state that someone needs a license to keep more than so many breeding bitches, but that's about it.

I wish it were different.

It is illegal to breed dogs without the health and welfare of the dogs at heart but don't know if there are any laws against inbreeding or linebreeding. The breeder must conduct his/her breeding with the outcome producing healthy dogs and not just a particular colour with no regard for anything else. Of course they will have to prove he is acting without due care for the animals. I'll give it a shot anyway.

George wrote:It is illegal to breed dogs without the health and welfare of the dogs at heart but don't know if there are any laws against inbreeding or linebreeding. The breeder must conduct his/her breeding with the outcome producing healthy dogs and not just a particular colour with no regard for anything else. Of course they will have to prove he is acting without due care for the animals. I'll give it a shot anyway.

Unfortunately it isn't illegal. Unethical, maybe, but not illegal. You can breed any dog to any bitch & you can't be charged with anything as long as you don't ill treat the mother/pups and don't lie to anyone you sell the pups to!

Same a it isn't illegal to inbreed or linebreed. It's against KC rules to inbreed, but that isn't the law. Just means that any pups from such a mating can't be registered.