Always a killer?

Hi fellow Staff lovers,
I am writing to you as i need a bit of advice. Two days ago my dog chased a fox out of the back garden but instead of the fox escaping, as is usual, Ziggy caught it and by the time I had got shoes on and gone out there it was dead. He had it under the neck and Ziggy was completely in a different zone, i had never seen him like that before! I tried to make him leave it, screaming at him, even smacking him with a broom head but he did not even flinch, he had locked his jaws and was not letting go for anyone!
My worry is that he has never been that friendly to other dogs that we come into contact with while walking. He has always been very alert (tail upright, ears up!!) and seems to be ready to attack even though he has never done anything more than reacted like this.
Will he now attack the other dogs that he meets? Should i muzzle him? Will he attack a child? I know these seem stupid questions but when he would not listen to me and would not leave the fox it was like he was a different dog! Not my stupid, nutty Ziggy!

Hi & welcome to the forum.

Firstly, the questions you've asked are NOT stupid. You're concerned, and you need some reassurance.

From what you've said about how Ziggy reacts to other dogs he sounds quite dominant. That in itself isn't really a problem as long as YOU control it. Keep him under control & watch for any signs of aggression. My own boy is very dominant. I don't let him play with any dogs off lead unless I know them, and I know those dogs are submissive.

Some staffs just are dominant/dog aggressive. Training can help, but the main thing is to make sure Ziggy is under control so that you don't get into situations you can't control. If he looks as though he's challenging another dog (head up, tail up, straight & stiff legged with hackles starting to rise) say "Leave it" and either make him sit until he's calm, or turn him away from the other dog & make him sit. If he's calm, give him a treat.

When you introduce him to other dogs do it calmly and slowly & ask the owner of the other dog to do the same (tell them he's 'in training!'). If he shows dominance, repeat above (sit, turn away etc).

As to the fox, well, I'm afraid Ziggy was just being normal! He's territorial by nature & was chasing the fox away. However, once he caught up instinct took over. I've had dogs that were beautiful with people/other dog/children etc but would kill another mammal or rodent at the drop of a hat! The thing you must remember is that it won't change his attitude to people/children/other dogs one little bit! To him, it's totally different.

Don't muzzle him, he isn't being vicious, just being himself - a dog. The 'different zone' is a typical staffy thing. Once they get really into something they see red & go overboard, blank out. With my last dog, who was dog aggressive, I used to stroke the inside & top of his thigh and he soon calmed down.

I'd teach him the "Leave" command and make sure that it's very strong. If it should happen again (and it probably won't!) take his lead out to the garden with you, loop it around his neck & put backwards pressure on it and at the same time keep repeating loudly and firmly "No, leave!" Don't scream or get panicky as it'll spur him on, try to stay calm.

Good luck!

P.S. We'd love to see some pics!

Thanks for the advice Carryl. It was hard for me to see my soppy baby attack and kill another living thing, i think it would have been easier if it was something smaller, but the fox was nearly as big as he is. It was screaming, and lashing out but Ziggy just ignored it until it was dead.

I think the worse thing about the situation was that i thought i had complete control over Ziggy, he leaves something when i tell him to, he sits, lies down and was starting to be good on recall after being let off the lead. I now feel that the control i thought i had would be completely useless in a situation where he zoned out again!? I spoke to my vet who also said that it was a territory situation and Ziggy will be as he usually is when taking him for a walk. I just worry that he has never really liked other dogs sniffing him and coming close and that now he has killed the fox he will react differently!!

I normally walk him on a retractable long lead but i am going to invest in a strong leather short lead (any recommendations??) as i am not sure that the retractable one will stay strong and not snap if he really wants to go somewhere or do something i do not want him to. That will make me feel better anyway!!!

I am not sure how to post photos on the site, i have just tried but i do not know if it worked!!

Thanks again for the advice!

I don't like short leads, I find them very uncomfortable to use. I use a softex training lead - about 7' long with a clip at either end. They normally have a ring halfway down so that you can shorten it if you want.
( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Police-Style-double-ended-training-dog-lead-strong-/280692122187?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&var=&hash=item870cb5b1b7
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cushion-Web-Police-Style-Adjustable-Dog-Training-Lead-/230539926692?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&var=&hash=item7b676d81a0 )

Halti leads are also very similar.

I won't use a retractable lead cause I don't have enough control with the handle - I like to put my hand through the loop at the end of a lead!

The thing with staffs is that they are quick to 'see red', and you just have to be firm & keep telling them to "leave" until it gets through to them - it will eventually! Just remember that he won't see a fox/rabbit/squirrel in the same way that he sees a child/adult/dog - to him they are totally different. I doubt that his reaction to anything else will be any different at all in the future!

Open an account with photobucket.com (free & easy to do) & then upload your pics on there. Go to your 'library' with photobucket, hover the mouse over the one you want to post on here & you'll see a drop down menu. Copy the last line (the IMG code) & paste it here.

Caryll wrote:Hi & welcome to the forum.

Firstly, the questions you've asked are NOT stupid. You're concerned, and you need some reassurance.

From what you've said about how Ziggy reacts to other dogs he sounds quite dominant. That in itself isn't really a problem as long as YOU control it. Keep him under control & watch for any signs of aggression. My own boy is very dominant. I don't let him play with any dogs off lead unless I know them, and I know those dogs are submissive.

Some staffs just are dominant/dog aggressive. Training can help, but the main thing is to make sure Ziggy is under control so that you don't get into situations you can't control. If he looks as though he's challenging another dog (head up, tail up, straight & stiff legged with hackles starting to rise) say "Leave it" and either make him sit until he's calm, or turn him away from the other dog & make him sit. If he's calm, give him a treat.

When you introduce him to other dogs do it calmly and slowly & ask the owner of the other dog to do the same (tell them he's 'in training!'). If he shows dominance, repeat above (sit, turn away etc).

As to the fox, well, I'm afraid Ziggy was just being normal! He's territorial by nature & was chasing the fox away. However, once he caught up instinct took over. I've had dogs that were beautiful with people/other dog/children etc but would kill another mammal or rodent at the drop of a hat! The thing you must remember is that it won't change his attitude to people/children/other dogs one little bit! To him, it's totally different.

Don't muzzle him, he isn't being vicious, just being himself - a dog. The 'different zone' is a typical staffy thing. Once they get really into something they see red & go overboard, blank out. With my last dog, who was dog aggressive, I used to stroke the inside & top of his thigh and he soon calmed down.

I'd teach him the "Leave" command and make sure that it's very strong. If it should happen again (and it probably won't!) take his lead out to the garden with you, loop it around his neck & put backwards pressure on it and at the same time keep repeating loudly and firmly "No, leave!" Don't scream or get panicky as it'll spur him on, try to stay calm.

Good luck!

P.S. We'd love to see some pics!

Very well said and not stupid questions at all. There is nothing at all wrong with a concerned handler looking for advice. Good luck.

Brill advice
Just one thing to add about the "zone" some people have argued that it doesnt exist and Ive witnessed it too and it definatly does.
All I can say is its a adrenilin rush to the brain and no amount of training will alter the dogs behaviour at that "moment" your dog cannot hear your words , actions or commands and I know we all panic in these situations but as said screaming ect can highten the dogs state . Try to keep calm and hold your dog if its on a lead keep hold of it but hitting it will not alter its state but may do damage there are loads of effective ways to take control maybe take time to look into them and then you will know how to handle the situation if were ever to happen again.
Poor fox but your dog was doing what any dog would have done and I dont think you could have done anything to avoid it the fox was just too slow on this day and it doesnt mean your dog is going to change his veiws on your family put it behind you and move on ><