Dog fight

Hello iv not been on this website for over a year but something terrible happened today and I need help. I have two rescue staffs calvin and maya. Calvin I got in January 2013, maya April 2013. I also have a mastiff cross who iv had since she was 12 weeks old and is now just over a year old. Both staffs are neutered the mastiff x is not as she was very poorly with lungworm and a chest infection and has been on meds for 5 months, she was too poorly to have the op after her 1st season so we are waiting until after her 2nd. Other than teaching recall iv never had a problem with any of my dogs although maya has a low tolerance for rude dogs. Today I was walking them through a local woods they were offlead.We passed 5 dogs no problems. Then my partner was ahead of me on a narrow path, bushes either side snd a lady with a choc lab on lead was coming the other way. I could not hear or see them at this point but my oh was talking to her when suddenly there was lots of growling and the woman was screaming I ran to catch up and see my calvin and maya are biting the labs head/neck area my oh has calvins collar and pulls him off the other dog, he lets go immediately. The woman does nothing except scream I run to get a hold of maya but my mastiff comes running up from behind and I grab her collar and quickly put her on her lead first. Then I try to grab maya but miss, my oh though is successful at grabbing her, she instantly let go as soon as he got her by her collar and he gets the staffs on their leads and apologise to the woman who lets forth a torrent of abuse. I say sorry to her and ask her to please check her dog is ok. She does and says her dog is uninjired before becoming abusive again, I apologise again and tell my oh to get moving to be out of the situation. We check our dogs maya had a small wound on her neck, none have blood on their mouths, there was no blood on the ground and no visible blood or injuries to the lab that we could see. My oh has some minor bite wounds from the lab on his hands.We carry on our walk with the dogs on their leads, shaken but think nothing more of it besides thinking maya will always need to be leashed now. My oh said the lab went stiff then maya went stiff then it all kicked off in a flash. We walked for a further 1.5 hours, as we approached the car park there were two men just standing there which sent alarm bells ringing. As we passed them one of the men who was a large man came up from behind and yelled that he had reported us to the police and became highly aggressive and verbally abusive, the woman then appeared from their car. Both of them crowded around me getting in my personal space and demanding my details, they kept taking photos of me, my dogs, my car and oh. I apologised again and said that the woman said her dog was uninjired. The man said the dog was badly injured. At this point I apologised again and said I would pay for any treatment I asked them which vets they would be going. They said the vets I use so I said good that makes it easier they are my vets too. Then they said no we will go to a different vets and named another local one, when I questipned this they then said they would go to a vets 20 miles away. I asked to see pics of their dogs injuries seeing as they kept taking photos of us and our dogs, they refused. I asked for their details and they refused but demanded mine. I thought the man was going to hit me at this point so I gave them my phone number and asked them to call or text me about the vet bills. I just wanted to get out of the situation by this point so did not mention my dogs injuy or my oh hands. I told them I am sorry they have never had problems before he laughed said that's what they all say then said my dogs will kill a child then left. I do not believe the lab can be badly hurt because first she said it was fine then they waited for 1.5 hours with their dog in the car instead of one of them taking it to the vets for treatment. I feel sick to the pit of my stomach and am scared of the police coming to take my dogs away. I don't know what to do apart from buy a muzzle for maya and keep her on a lead. Perhaps walk her seperate to the other two. Does anyone have some advice for me? I cannot sleep I feel so sick. They have not contacted me about the vet treatment yet.

What an awful experience for you. I'm not surprised you feel sick.

First things first, if anyone has puncture wounds, please get them on ABs. I'd run your OH up to A&E if necessary. Dog wounds can infect very quickly.

My instinct is that you've run into a load of bullies who have made a load of noise but are unlikely to take it any further. There are some people who seem to enjoy intimidating others for reasons that baffle me. As you say, if they had been genuinely concerned about their 'seriously injured' dog, they would have taken it to the vets asap instead of waiting round.

If - big if - something does come of it, I think you have a couple of arguments in your favour. Firstly, it sounds like the lab was the one who initiated it but that from then on it was a mutual fight, rather than aggression by your dogs. The other thing is that your OH is the one who got bitten by the lab, so there is potentially an argument that it is the lab who was of greater danger to humans.

The problem, I guess, is not only the breed of your dogs and people's perception of them, but the fact that 3 can become a pack very quickly. When walking my 3, I always reach for leads for Chaos and Nola when I see another dog we don't know, largely because if they joined in together it would be a very difficult situation to manage.

I think that's my advice to you for the time being. When you see another dog, especially coming head on which is the most confrontational, pop one or, better still, two (or 3!) on leads. Be as calm as you can, avoid creating tension in the eyes of other people or of the dogs, but just put their 'saftey nets' on. I personally wouldn't be reaching for a muzzle just yet, this may just be a one off. If you think Maya is starting to react negatively towards other dogs, then look at retraining and, if necessary, muzzling with a view to getting her settled again.

I'm guessing that if there is a report to the police you'll hear fairly soon, so today will be an unpleasant waiting one. I'll be thinking of you.

Hiya. Really sorry that you've had to return to the forum on negative terms! It all sounds very dodgy on the lab owners part, but I think it best to reflect on the incident as a whole and see if/how it could have been prevented. Once that's been done, you can arrange to make the necessary changes on your part handling wise. If you can prove that IF/when the DLO arrives, you should stand in good stead. If I remember correctly, your two came from BDH right? They would have been assessed there, so could you possibly obtain the behavioural reports, as that may also help your case.

It really does sound like they're trying to pass the blame onto your dogs to deflect from the fact that the lab was the one who bit a human AND injured one of your dogs - possibly so YOU feel intimidated into not reporting them.

This sounds terrible but i blame the other person as i feel your dogs were not to blame i wouldnt worry too much about police as they would have been in contact almost immediately hopefully the outcomes good . In the meantime id use a long line for your own peace of mind legally your dogs haven't caused any damage good luck.

Thanks guys. The wounds on my OH hands look more like grazes and one shallow puncture wound, he is already on antibiotics for a chest infection. Ive since noticed that calvin has a puncture wound on his right ear and maya has a wound to her nose not sure if its an abrasion or a puncture because she wont stay still long enough for me to get a proper look. I still haven't heard anything from them about their vet bill.They didn't give me their number to ring and ask them. Nothing from the police or dog warden today, guess they maybe turn up tomorrow. Iv since found minor wounds on them so I wouldn't be surprised if the lab does have some minor wounds. I don't blame the lab, I think it was 50/50. I think Maya may have felt trapped as she had nowhere to go, I think the lab probably felt the same and was also on a lead and outnumbered. I think both the woman and my OH failed to read their body language quick enough to avoid a confrontation between the dogs. She said our dogs started it, my OH said it happened too fast to be sure who started it. I think the lab bit him out of fear rather than malice, it was only a minor bite at that. I think Calvin only got involved due to pack mentality, I thankfully managed to get hold of sasha before she could be involved. They have all been subdued today I think they know I am upset. I think the womans reaction was abit OTT but she was shocked and scared same as we were so I can forgive that but not the ambush and imtimidation/aggression at the car park and the refusal to accept that the lab had anything to do with it at all. I have been looking at behaviourists within 1 hours drive today to help Maya, I am afraid to allow her off lead again at the moment except in fields with a big open view, certainly not when Im by myself. I would rather muzzle her and keep her leashed to keep her safe then risk this happening again. It didn't occur to me to call the BDH to ask for their behaviour reports, that's a great idea thanks, perhaps they can also advise on how to retrain her too. Iv had Sasha (mastiff) from a pup so no report for her, though our vet knows her well due to her illness, she has been to them a lot. She wasn't involved but if they carry out their threat I wouldn't be surprised if they say she was.

It sounds like it was just "one of those things," but I agree that it would be wise to get Maya muzzle trained and call in a trainer if you're unsure of how to move forwards with this. My girl is uncomfortable around other dogs, and is on lead at all times when in their presence. Luckily for us, we live on Dartmoor and I can safely exercise her on a 50ft long line (£6 on eBay if you fancy one!) and we rarely bump into another dog - she's never attempted to bite another dog, just makes a lot of noise to get them out of her space and will stare/lunge/chase. However, if we're walking in the local area which is more heavily populated with dogs, she is on a short lead, and always under close control. The most important thing to show is that you're managing the situation, and taking positive steps to improve Maya's negative reaction. Hindsight is a wonderful thing - they probably shouldn't have been allowed to run up the lab on lead, but you clearly already know this, and this appears to have been a mishap.

As for the other owners, the fact that he's a lab/was on the lead IMO would hold firm in their favour - but it also needs to be taken into consideration that if your dogs really wanted to hurt him, they would have. This sounds like a squabble - not a full blown attack. I don't believe that he was seriously injured (as you say, they wouldn't have waited an hour with him in the car if he was!) but their may well be injuries that will require cleaning/antibiotics etc. The reports will be archived somewhere, I managed to get a photocopy of Bug's report from there a few years after I adopted her. I'm unsure if Helen (the behaviourist) does call outs, but she should be able to advise you about somebody that does.

Lab is female which possibly could be a factor as maya is a girl. They don't normally get to run up to other dogs, the lab and owner appeared from a tight bend on a narrow path, it was also on a fair gradient so Maya was higher up than the lab. Lesson being to get them back on leads before going round corners.

That sounds horrible And as if the stress of your dogs scrapping wasn't enough the people then acted like jerks...no excuse for aggression, intimidation and abuse. I understand the Lab owner was shook up, but so were you.

We keep our Staffy on a lead / longline any time we're off  our property...not because she has poor recall or is aggressive in any way, but because we know if another dog started a fight our dog would be blamed because of her breed.

I would very clearly write out what you / your OH saw in terms of the Lab's behaviour and body language. Then write out in detail how the woman reacted, as much as you can remember about what the men in the car park said and did, that they took photos and that you offered several times to pay for vet bills. Get any photos you can if there are still visible marks on your OH's hand or your dogs. Have your dogs been to the vet, so a vet can back you up about injuries?

My Staffy has been attacked / bitten several times (she's always on lead and all the other dogs have either been off lead with no recall, or have dragged their owners over to us) and not one of those owners apologised or offered vet bills. In fact one laughed. I can understand being shocked and angry in the heat of the moment, but it sounds like you were so responsible in that you apologised, offered to pay vet bills and gave out your details.

I'm really sorry this happened. If it had happened to me I would be such a mess with anxiety. Any time Zoey has a bad interaction with other dogs we play LAT game afterwards...basically any dog she sees = high value treats

They have left a voicemail now saying their vet bill is £62 which seems to be the average cost of a consultation fee out of hours on a weekend. So it seems to me the lab is not injured. I think I will book mine into our vet this Afternoon just to get their injuries logged and the fact his hand has been bitten by someone official. I need to talk to my OH but I think il pay their fee and mention our dogs injuries and bills and the fact he was bitten and ask if they are still planning to take things further or not.

If you do pay their bill, make it clear that this is in no way any admission of liability on your part and that it is a one-off goodwill gesture. You don't want them saying this proves you know your dogs were at fault, or them thinking they can 'discover' more injuries later.

We went to our vet and asked for advise and they said to go to the police ourselves so we did. At first the police were not interested and said they don't deal with dog on dog attacks only dog on human. Then they were interested in the altercation in the car park so took us to the interview room for details. They were not interested in the fact the lab bit my OH hand, that's to be expected if you try to split up fighting dogs. They said seeing as there was no physical violence or threat of violence in the car park nothing can be done.They were very interested in the breed of my dogs, less so when I said they were rescues and would ask for their behaviour report if necessary. They said legally it would be us to blame as our dogs were offlead in a public place and because of their breed they should now always be kept on a lead. They also seemed to think it was wrong to walk 3 dogs at once between two handlers but did not say not to do it.They took all our details and the woman's phone number and said they would call me in an hour after checking to see if any other reports had been filed. When they called they said no other reports had been made, they had called the woman and she is calm now, at this point there will be no further action we just need to pay the vet bill, preferably by card to leave a trail. I called the woman after, first thing I said was how is your dog? she says her dog has 3 bite wounds, she says they are deep and she has been given 3 days worth of antibiotics for her dog. She never asked how my dogs are, did not apologise for her and her husband behaviour and did not ask how we were. She said she wants paying in cash, I said ok but I require a copy of your vet invoice and some kind of receipt from you to say iv given you the money. She initially wanted to meet in the car park of the woods where the incident took place but I said I didn't want to go back there and would rather a more public place. Hopefully this will be over and done with in the next day and I don't run into them again.

It sounds like you've reached a sort of satisfactory outcome, i.e. that you know where you stand, your dogs aren't in any danger at the moment and you know what you need to do. It is a shame that you will have to restrict their freedom when out but if you get the lines that Rachel mentioned it will at least mean they're not on short leads.

Iv used long lines before when teaching Calvin recall but didn't get on with them, it got all knoted and covered in dog poo and he kept getting himself tangled up in it. Il look for a flexi and walk them individually unless my OH is with me.

Wow what a nasty encounter. Seems like this is pretty much done and dusted now but I wouldn't blame your dogs too much, a scrap can happen in seconds and with very little notice and is Not breed specific. I think your right about the pack mentality.

Hopefully this'll never happen to you again but for the other party to react in such an aggressive manner is completely out of order and again, you did the right thing by getting it on record with the Police.

How terrifying for you!! Firstly, labs are b******s, they always start the fight trust me. Second, the men crowding you was TOTALLY out of order, if the police call you (i doubt they will) then you need to tell them exactly what happened and that you offered to pay but they were not interested but verbally abused and threatened you. Dog on dog attacks are not as serious as human attacks, so say your dogs are crossbreeds not staffies. They are very unlikly to come near you. 

Hope you are okay x

Yes it is dealt with now, sorry I haven't updated but I'm still not completely over it yet. The police said the blame is entirely ours and that we should take the aggressive behaviour of the lab owners on the chin. In truth I wish we walked away when they Said they were not interested in dog on dog incidents instead of then going in to give statements about the car park incident, although they said that was what they were interested in during the interview they were mostly interested in my dogs and their breed, where I got them from, their appearance etc and write down very little about the altercation in the car park. They now have our full details and our dogs and I get the feeling that if we have another incident even if our dogs are on leads it will go against us. I met up.with thenlaxynij a public place and gave her the money in cash scorer her request she gave me a copy of her vet bill/report and signed it to say it was paid. She was actually very nice this time and we both cried. The only problem is that they reported sasha who was not involved as being a Pitt bull, so I did not go back to the police as planned with our receipt as evidence to show its been resolved, however I do believe no further action will be taken. The lab had 3 minor puncture wounds and was given antibiotics as a precaution but no other treatment, my own dogs came off worse from the incident injury wise. I have only walked them in the fields round the corner from me since, this is for two reasons, one sasha has come into season (possible reason for maya to become tetchy with unfamiliar dogs?) And the other is I do not feel confident to walk them in my own at the moment,especially with all three on lead, not long ago sasha pulled me over when she was on lead in the woods and I had to have 3 weeks off work with a back injury, I don't think I can manage all three constantly on lead in woods at the same time. Once sashas season is over I plan to walk two together and one by themselves rotating then round to make it easier, this will be easier during autumn and winter as I'm often the only.one out and about when the weather is awful in the larger woods. I am also thinking that mayas solo walks wil have to be canix runs as she is prone to weight gain. I think she will be safe to be given short off lead stints if I take a tug toy with me as its her absolute fave thing and nothing else exists if a game of tug is on the cards, I could only do that in fields and parks though to make sure I don't get taken by surprise by people's dogs. The worst thing is I feel like I have failed my dogs.