Stubborn Staff advice...

Hi, just looking for a couple of tips on how to deal with my stubborn pup! He is generally pretty well behaved and obedient (when he feels like it). He is walked off the lead most of the time and will come back when he's called unless he finds something he's really interested in. The frustrating thing is that although he doesn't often go out of sight, the problems generally arise when I want him to come to me or come away from something when we are in plain sight of each other. I call him and he'll just stand and look at me as if "I'm here, what do you want?"
If I try to approach him when he does this he'll start dancing away from me as if it's a game! It can be very frustrating and embarrassing, and I'm wary that I might need him to seriously come to me in a dangerous situation.
I try not to be cross with him and don't punish him when he does decide to come but it is very annoying.
Does anyone have any experience of similar and/or solutions?

I should say, he's not really a pup anymore at 16 months

sounds like your describing my howie

Think you need to back to basics with this one i would practice his recall again with a long training line. Hes testing you to see what he can get away with he is still maturing.

I can see why you might say that, but it really seems a bit fruitless. If we are working on recall he does it every time. He has no problem understanding what is asked of him, he just elects to ignore it if he is more interested in sniffing around at a dead animal or whatever it may be! I'm not really sure how to deal with the fact that he is choosing not to listen. Treats don't work, toys don't work, any form of punishment we have tried doesn't work. Generally the only way to get him to come is to walk away, but there are situations when this isn't ideal

Love your profile picture, it looks amazing where you are!

I would advise putting him on a long line lead to be honest just until he gets a little older, out of his teenage phase and starts to listen more. Until you can get him back 100% of the time that's the safest way in my opinion

I agree with the long line. You'll only need to control the line when he goes into the ignoring stage.

We are in a similar situation in that sometimes (very rarely) Bane has good recall, and other times he does what he wants, which as you said is not ideal and at the wrong moment could be a disaster waiting to happen.

I know your frustration and boy does he pee me off something rotten on a regular basis!

I don't think I can be much help as we are trying to overcome the same issue! But how we are dealing with it:
We have a long horse training lead that we use most days at the park and on open spaces to try and teach recall, and we have made some improvements, in that if he sees another dog he will stop and look and then 99% of the time run back in our direction instead of in the dogs direction. It also allows us to either keep hold of him while he gets a run around in busy areas, or in quieter areas, we can drop the lead but can easily jump on it if need be. (easier than trying to get close to him to grab his harness or collar avoiding the much fun "Catch me if you can" game.

We are hoping to attend some form of training class to try and address the issue as like you, feel that nothing we have tried is helping! And trust me we have tried nearly everything!

Ah... I think you'll find this is a Staffy trait

I have an older girl and whilst Deaf she has really good recall (Don't ask me how) but if she wants to ignore me she will. I haven't perfected this but if you can find that really high value treat and use that alone for recall, it might just work. It'll take some time obviously but may well be worth a go and being young could work well going forward.

-Ian- wrote:Ah... I think you'll find this is a Staffy trait

I have an older girl and whilst Deaf she has really good recall (Don't ask me how) but if she wants to ignore me she will. I haven't perfected this but if you can find that really high value treat and use that alone for recall, it might just work. It'll take some time obviously but may well be worth a go and being young could work well going forward.

I agree with the high value treat and using a long line. At his age he is testing boundaries and may have some behavioral issues going forward until he grows out of the teenage phase.

There are a couple of things in your posts that might give a clue. First you say 'any form of punishment we have tried doesn't work'. If you have tried punishments when he's come back, he has probably learned that might be in store for him when he comes now. You know you're not going to do it, but does he?

'I try not to be cross with him and don't punish him when he does decide to come but it is very annoying.' Even though you are trying not to be cross, it sounds like you are and he will pick that up. Dogs are amazing at reading our body language and just a hint of irritation that he picks up might be enough to block him.

I'd do lots of recall training in all sorts of places, in the house, the garden, anywhere you are as well as on walks. Call him when you're sitting watching telly, give him a treat. Call him into the garden and play. Always may your call fun and positive, 'Come Rubio, we're going to have the best treat/fun ever!!!'.

On walks, call him at random times and make being with you the best thing ever. Find whatever is the biggest reward for him - his favourite treat, his bestest ever toy - and use that. When he comes, feel just oh so pleased with him and let him feel how much you adore him.

If he does hesitate, try standing sideways on to him, so not directly facing which can block a dog. Bend down and play bow, show you're going to be fun. If that doesn't work, the do walk or even run away. You're right that chasing him is a game, it's a game dogs love to play and if he thinks you're up for it he'll be only too pleased to join in. If, however, you show you want to play the chase game but that he's to chase you, that's also fun!

And the golden rule is never, ever call him if you know he won't come. a) it's pointless but more importantly b) he'll learn that he can ignore you. Set him up to do it right. That may mean keeping him on a long line in harder, more distracting places to start off with but you'll not be able to do hard until you can do easy.

You'll get there, honest!

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Liz - thanks for the detailed info. Genuinely I don't get cross with him that often. Partly because he is so good most of the time and because the only times he's ignoring me is when I can see what he's doing. I actually think part of the problem is that we're far too soft with him. When I actually raise my voice he tends to listen - I'm just not prepared to be screaming at him in public to get him to take notice! As for punishment, we've only really tried it a couple of times, mainly ignoring him for a while, but he just sits and waits for us to snap out of it!

Your point about not calling him when we know he won't listen is very useful, if counter-intuitive(!), but I can definitely see the purpose.

Question for everyone - how does the long line that everyone is suggesting work? (and is a long line just an extra long leash?) I'm presuming we just keep him on it and give a tug on it if he's not responding?

Yes a long line is an extra long lead more of a safety net they are invaluable and a lot of forum users use them .

You can get really long ones on Amazon, we had one for my Flo.

Yep, that's how we use it! If he doesn't come to us when we call, a little tug normally reminds him that we have asked him to come and he will come running over like a nutter!

It's also a safety net like Crystal said. We still have control over him so that he can't run off but he gets his freedom to run around

Sorry to jump in and ask a question on your thread Rubio, but I'm curious about 1 thing with the workings of a long lead and a dog who goes into stubborn mode and refuses to come to you. I have a long lead for casper which I use on a big patch of grass when I take him to play frisbee..he always brings it back as he likes to chase it, so when I've had enough I just wait for him to come back and swap him onto his walking lead. but how would it work if he one day decided there's someting far more interesting than his frisbee? I picture it a bit like this - he heads off away from me, I call him, he stops looks and ignores me. I then Stand like an idiot reeling in several meters of lead with a stubborn staffy on the other end trying to pull away..I should imagine it's like trying to reel in a shark on a fishing line? Would he then get a treat after I've reeled him in because he is by my side? Even though it was not down to him coming willingly? How would that set us up for the following time?
I'm not purposely being difficult here, it is genuine curiosity of what happens when the dog is as far as the lead lets him be and digging his heels in.

I cant let mine off lead for 90% of the time. they are half staffy half sibe and have decided to take on the stubborn sibe mentality with regards recall... ie its virtually non existant. there are times when they do slip the leads, demolish harnesses etc and my top tip is this... run away from them. sounds strange but if you go towards them its a game of you chasing them, run away from them making noises and its them chasing you and great fun. just remember to praise to the high hills when you get them back. saved me many an hour sat waiting for them to come back from the woods when they have got free, and these guys can be 12km away in 30 mins so its a bloody long scary wait!

ninz wrote:Sorry to jump in and ask a question on your thread Rubio, but I'm curious about 1 thing with the workings of a long lead and a dog who goes into stubborn mode and refuses to come to you. I have a long lead for casper which I use on a big patch of grass when I take him to play frisbee..he always brings it back as he likes to chase it, so when I've had enough I just wait for him to come back and swap him onto his walking lead. but how would it work if he one day decided there's someting far more interesting than his frisbee? I picture it a bit like this - he heads off away from me, I call him, he stops looks and ignores me. I then Stand like an idiot reeling in several meters of lead with a stubborn staffy on the other end trying to pull away..I should imagine it's like trying to reel in a shark on a fishing line? Would he then get a treat after I've reeled him in because he is by my side? Even though it was not down to him coming willingly? How would that set us up for the following time?
I'm not purposely being difficult here, it is genuine curiosity of what happens when the dog is as far as the lead lets him be and digging his heels in.

Good question! Not sure how other's deal with it but we encounter this a lot when Bane finds really great smelling things that he does not like to leave! Or he gets fixated on stalking another dog or rolling in something disgusting at the far end of the lead
In most cases a few extra tugs are needed and if he doesn't co-operate I will walk towards him to try and get his attention and then as soon as he looks, run the other way to which he will chase. If that doesn't work I end up walking to him to shoo him away from whatever he is doing or hold the lead short and walk him on to a new place. You soon find out what works best

This is where a ride went wrong... the snapped a metal link clean in half and judging by the direction they went in and came back from they ran the top end of our sunday run which is about 2 miles before deciding to come back. no chance of recal when in race mode which is why its best to run away as soon as possible. on a walk they look surprised that they are loose so its easier to do. in this case i was just screwed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4sCXH48iSw

Nathan wrote:This is where a ride went wrong... the snapped a metal link clean in half and judging by the direction they went in and came back from they ran the top end of our sunday run which is about 2 miles before deciding to come back. no chance of recal when in race mode which is why its best to run away as soon as possible. on a walk they look surprised that they are loose so its easier to do. in this case i was just screwed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4sCXH48iSw

I was on the edge of my seat the whole time!
Such good pups for coming back! I wonder how long it took them to realise you weren't attached

No idea mate lol but I was pooping myself. think it was Laska that lead the way home as she is such a daddys girl, marley however would be gone with ought a care in the world untill he got hungry.

Well done the dogs coming back nath

Long training leads are great as they have freedom but you still have control. Its great for recall training make the recall in a fun voice and treat with toy and play or treat whichever is best response. Personally Vin comes back when I moo like a cow!