Staffies in the Terrier group at Crufts??

How do people feel about this? Some seem to think they should stay there and some feel they're trying to win a group that they can't because half of their genes are from the Bull breeds and the other comes from terriers that are no longer around. What do you think?

Hmm never thought about it like that to be honest. So are you saying that a Staffy is probably never going to win because it crosses two breeds ?

I'm not into Crufts at all so hadn't looked at the groups before, but I agree it does seem odd to have staffies with the terriers. They'd be better in the Utility group, wouldn't they?

no a fan of crufts either tbh

a staffie is never going to win crufts but i does it really matter?
i have always cosidered them a terrier.

dazoldo wrote:a staffie is never going to win crufts but i does it really matter?
i have always cosidered them a terrier.

I'm not a watcher or follower of Crufts, however, I would be delighted if a Staff did win.

Perhaps the should have a most intelligent breed section

there you go that's a great idea.
they would sweep all competition before them.

Either most intelligent or smiliest. They'd win hands down either.

I'm not a big fan of Crufts either and after seeing how the dogs sit about for so long no wonder they look stressed and bored. I can't help looking to see the token Staffy in the terrier group being yet again described as a previous fighter as the Bull terrier gets described as the gladiator of the terrier group. These half witted snobs don't know their you know what from their elbow. The poor blighter has to be paraded about like that when he/she has no chance as they describe the others as true terriers. It seems that unless your dog looks like a Wire haired Fox Terrier you don't have a proper terrier in their minds. I loved the Staffy agility stuff though, wonderful.

I don't see the point of Crufts other than as a money-making venture. Seems to me its primary purpose is to massage a bunch of very human egos rather than to celebrate dog-hood. Cliques of up-themselves weirdos with too much time on their hands and borderline OCD who treat their dogs like dolls, bitching and backstabbing behind the scenes to boost their own standing. Not for me. Apparently one of the dogs was killed by a competitor who fed it poisoned meat whilst the owners were distracted.

Oops, this is supposed to be a 'niceboard' isn't it

What more can you say?

crufts ever only show you "show dogs" that is a world apart from working dogs. marley and laskas dad was a knarley old super fit guy that wouldnt meet an ounce of breed standard in the ring. yet he is a well known guy in he working world. the mum is a staffy that is an agility super star. i have two well oiled athleates which are mutts from two perfect workers. crufts would throw all of them out but i still enjoy watching it, it fun

I thought this site was about "Staffordshire Bull Terriers"... They are, as it say's on the tin....Bull & Terriers........, Sadly, too much indiscriminant breeding has "watered down" the breed... There is a breed standard, and that should be adhered too...

It is about Staffordshire Bull terriers but it's all encompassing here. In an ideal world they would all be "Standard" but as you say, breeding over the years has watered down the average Staff. My girl is not pure bred but she's as much Stafford as your going to get without being from a KC registered breeder

How can she be as much Stafford ?

So... granted my Flo isn't KC registered but I would say and so would a vet (2 in fact) that she is a Stafford. Ok not pure or standard but IMO a staff.

Those two vets can only "assume" that she is a Stafford, but if you are happy with your dog Flo....... thats all that matters... After all, whenever I come home from a show, the BEST DOG in the show, comes home with me...

And you should be rightly proud too.

Me and my mutt come home from the park each day quiet happy assuming that she's a Staff

And that is what matters.... You love her and she loves you, thats what its all about...

i know very little about the breeding side of our dogs but after so many years of bad breeding/back yard breeding i guess the breed standard has changed for a lot of our staffies,so many staffy /crosses have been breed at the end of the day, we all love our dogs wether they be pure breed or crosses and yes they are to us Staffordshire bull Terriers

Is it the breed that has been "watered down" or some people brain??
Maybe too much chemicals in the air in crufts from hair spray

Hi Stella. We all love our dogs, yes.... but you can't call them what you like.

Peppa, Have you ever shown a dog at Crufts ?

I wouldn't leave my dog alone on a bench for my ego so no.
I don't like the idea of breeding/inbreeding for appearance only I prefer working dogs.

You do not have to leave your dog alone....... This year at Crufts, my dog may have been on his own, in his grate for perhaps, half an hour at the most.... He is with me all the time.

My girl is another stray shelter pup, she looks like a staffordshire bull terrier and is 100% Stafford in personality - but of course I don't have papers for her and I'm sure she doesn't meet KC guidelines. I'm happy to call her a staffie cross, but she is definitely a staffie in some form.

just because they are not pure breed,does'nt mean to say we cant call them staffie/staffie cross,on this forum we welcome all staffie or crosses with out them being pure breed.

In some form, yes. And no doubt, you love her.... Thats great

There are also some great KC registered Staffies here too

crufts crufts do you know what they do to pure breeds at crufts pal bred a wee cocker spaniel whos skull had to be cut because it was screaming in agony. and if it wasnt for people who had what you call NOT a pure breed STAFFORDSHIRE BULL TERRIER the breed wouldn't be as well sorry not all our dogs are to your high standards . If you are going to slate the members dogs you'll be shown the nearest door .

Yes Ian, I bet there are too.
I just wonder why some seem to dislike the "Crufts" thing... ?
I've had Staffies for 45+ years. Rescue Staffies too. And if you have a "good'n", why not show them?

Mia05.... What is your problem ??? WHO HAVE I SLATED ??? you need to grow up.................. I tell you what, I'll leave this site if its got idiotts like you on here.................

Let's not get on the attack here people. We all have opinions and let's respect that.

I agree, if my girl was Standard enough I would put her in the local show etc. I think the problem people have with Crufts Is the perceived elitism and that some of the breeding methods aren't quiet what some might expect.

I personally don't have a huge problem with dog showing, there are positives and negatives - depends really what the quality of life the dogs have between shows. Some people get pretty crazy about showing, and their dogs suffer for it, and sometimes these owners are downright cruel to their dogs! I think keeping with standards for the breed is important - but having worked in shelters for years I have a big problem with over-breeding. I do also have a major concern with brachycephalic dogs being bred to KC standard at the cost of their health.

Rachel33. Yes, very true. Its the back street breeders who have damaged the breed for MONEY. And it is mainly them puppies and dogs that fill the rescue centers. I was horrified to see on variouse sites, "so called" staffies for sale for between £800 and £1500.... Yes, £1500..... And most came without papers. A lot of people could not tell a Staffie from a Pitbull, then they get problems with the dog and the poor thing then goes to the rescue centers.... There should certainly be some law to STOP indiscriminate breeding....

You do'nt even pay £600 for a Staffie with a GOOD pedigree...

F H wrote: There should certainly be some law to STOP indiscriminate breeding....

Totally agree.

Totally agree - lots of awful backyard breeders, breeding for fashion a lot of the time; blue in colour for example. There is of course a place for sensible, regulated breeding of both pure bred and cross bred dogs, and showing too. I totally understand the need for keeping standards, that's where a lot of the bad media coverage comes from, in that anything small and stocky is called a staffie! You are right also that there were few registered staffies in kennels.

The forum as a whole welcomes both pure bred and cross bred staffie owners to come and chat/ask for advice. Breeding and showing are usually "hot topics" that come with debate and opinions!! Perhaps other members felt that you were saying that there dogs were lesser for not being pure bred, and felt defensive about this. I do understand that a crossbreed is a crossbreed, ultimately what we all have in common as our love and devotion to what we believe a Stafford to be! Either way, it sounds like you have a lot of experience with the breed, and if you can accept us and our mutts, I'm sure the forum as a whole will accept you too

Rachel33.... A very polite reply and I thank you. In no way, do I want to belittle or call these dogs "lesser" animals... In fact my last Staffie was a X and a rescue dog, who I had for 13 years. A more loving dog you could not have met............... But I do wonder how these "back street urchins" can keep getting away with this "puppy farming" and the gullable public keep purchasing these puppies...

Maybe it's time for a tweak of the standard anyway?
Ultimately I think we're all on the side of loving healthy happy dogs at the end of the day and compared to some poor souls Staffies are not too bad off health wise. Bull dogs GSDs Ridgebacks and the like.

"May be time for a tweak of the standard anyway ?"...But Staffies have been changing since the 1930's, for the better I may add, by loving and committed breeders....... Lets not change them into the killers we see on tv....
Sadly, since roughly the 1980's the Stafford has become popular with the idiott who wants a "macho" dog, a "fighting dog" and the Stafford will certainly "rise to the occasion"...Again and again, the Stafford of which people love and adore has become fashionable and because of that, the dodgy breeder exists...Just take a look at your local rescue centers!!! One near to me, has nothing but X staffies.
Staffords are a most loving dog. "The nanny dog", they got that name for a reason... They are strong dogs, both in build and mentality, quick to learn dogs and also "want to please" dogs.
My advice to any prospective purchaser is to do your homework...go look at lots of litters, talk to the breeder, check out the breeding, look at the sire and dam, make sure this pup is for you. Remember this pup is with you for life.... And by doing your homework, you WILL have a friend for life.
And before people start "knocking" Crufts and all dog shows, go along to a show, talk to people there, look and listen, you will soon see people there who are very committed to there dogs (they might not do things the same as you) but they will have one thing in common with you.............. The love of Staffords

F H wrote:I thought this site was about "Staffordshire Bull Terriers"... They are, as it say's on the tin....Bull & Terriers........, Sadly, too much indiscriminant breeding has "watered down" the breed... There is a breed standard, and that should be adhered too...

I'm afraid I took this post as being a criticism of staffie crosses. I have two and not only do I love them both to bits, I am also very proud of who they are. All my animals are rescues, by the way, not from BYBs.

Like Rachel, I'm very involved in animal rescue and see the rubbish end of over breeding and poor/indescriminate breeding. I also see a heck of a lot of absolutely fab crossbreeds and total mutts, some truly wonderful dogs. For me, the important part of the dog is what is on the inside, and of course that they are healthy. Whether they have, like my Chaos, too long legs to be true to breed standard, or whether they are deformed like my little Millie doesn't change the inner dog.

Like many people, I also get upset/angry when I hear about how breeding for appearance has created suffering through physical deformaties, and some of the handling for showing beggars belief.

At the end of the day, showing is for the owners, not for the dogs. I don't believe for one moment that any dog would actually vote to be a show dog. They may appear to enjoy it but I bet they'd vote for a life that involved chasing round with others, getting dirty, etc., in other words just being a dog. That's not to say that all show dogs are unhappy or that showing is by definition cruel. I do, though, think that many in the showing world don't always put their inner dogs first.

You'll probably already have noticed my avatar - Millie my deformed rescue staffie x GSD pup who was voted as Best RSPCA Rescue in this years Ruffs show, the RSPCA alternative to Crufts. Says it all really, doesn't it!

I personally love this site because it is about Staffordshire Bull Terriers including all the crosses and wonky dogs that we have in our lives. It's invaluable to many as some of the issues we face as staffie owners are particular to them, in particular the public perception of the breed.

I am not into crufts either, however those that do them, good luck and well done. My staffie is a staffie, and a rescue too, and very much a member of the family, I dont need abit of paper to say shes staffie. She is a very pretty girl, and we have been told so many times. Ever been asked if we would breed her, to which I said no, she is a rescue and theres too many needing to be rescued. (She is sprayed) not that I said. We are a friendly lot on here, and its good to have an option without the need to be nasty about it, not saying we have, just stating theres just no need for it, but every need to discuss in a nice friendly grown up manner. I would be lost without this wonderful forum.

It seems that I have "ruffled a few feathers" on here... That was NOT my intension at all... The main reason Staffords have got bad press IS the indiscriminant breeding, the "macho" dog, the "tough guy's" dog and the irresponsible owners........
How many of the backstreet breeders really care about the health of these fine dogs ie. Genetically clear of HJC (Hereditary Juvenile Cataracts), and L2HGA or eye screened for PHPV (an eye condition) Pobably very, very few........ I'm sure you all love your dogs very much... I came onto this site because of my love of Staffords... So to avoid future upset to some on here, I'll unsubscribe.

Ruffling feathers is no bad thing. You've generated some good debate and quiet clearly have a strong affection for Staffords.

I guess the problem is that most people here aren't owners of show dogs or come to that not Standard either but we all have the love of the Staffordshire in common.

I don't see any reason for you to unsubscribe and would be happy to have you around to offer an alternative/different view.

F H
Why unsubscribe, you have been very welcome on here.  We do see your passion for dogs and staffies.  You also have a passion for show dogs, nothing wrong in this.  I admire you for this, its just not me thats all.  Please stay around, there will always be other debates, you just have to be grown up and take it on the chin, we do like to express our options, nothing wrong with this.  My late dad use to breed and they were always of kc registered. They were also gun dogs too. I grew up with this around me.  Pixee is my first rescue and first staffie.  I totally agree that they have just a bad rep for the wrong reasons.  Thank god for us people.

I take exception to this comment, "you just have to be grown up and take it on the chin".....??? Show me where I have "slated" anyone in my comments? Apart from the BAD breeder...

F H wrote:I take exception to this comment, "you just have to be grown up and take it on the chin".....??? Show me where I have "slated" anyone in my comments? Apart from the BAD breeder...

Duh, you really are taking this the wrong way. Did I say you slated anyone? NO I did not. Trying reading posts without letting your steamed feelings getting in the way. I stated there will always be other debates around and you meaning you, me and others have to be grown up about them and take them on the chin meaning dont get wound up over a debate.

Well Bo's KC registered and I would never show him at Crufts, mainly because if I did then it would be for my benefit, not his (and I don't give a stuff how people judge him, so there's that too). Aside from the damage done by 'vanity' breeding, if you have competitions like Crufts that look for the so-called 'perfect' dog you're going to get a bunch of people who are obsessed with meeting that ideal. I sometimes wonder how many of these show-dogs run around in muddy fields or play-fight with their friends or mess around in the woods or get up to anything that might ruffle a hair or scratch a claw? The answer is, not many. Most of these weirdo owners seem to treat their dogs like extensions of their own egos, not as animals who have their own needs.

The image of Staffordshire Bull Terriers is not helped by books, shows and the like also branding them as fighting dogs, fighting dogs are created not born. There is an inherent snobbery at these shows whether it is wanted or not and dogs owned by the great unwashed will always be looked upon differently to some others partly because these people believe their own background somehow is reflected by the dogs they breed. Just as the average halfwit thinks owning an American pit-bull terrier makes him/her mike Tyson, some of these people seem to follow the theory of Eugenics.