Behaviour worries

Saffy has always been very friendly and passive with other dogs but has been a bit grouchy this week and I'm a little worried.
A couple of days ago we were leaving my sisters house and her neighbours dog (who we have met before) came to say hello. Everything seemed ok but then Saffy suddenly growled and snarled at the other dog so I immediately put her in the car. I put this down to it being hot, the other dog being off lead (Saffy was on lead) or her being protective of my young nieces.
Then today whilst we were out walking I stopped to chat to another owner and Saffy initiated play with his dog. They played for a couple of minutes but it all seemed to get too much for Saffy and she showed the other dog her teeth. We left quickly after that!
Both dogs were staffy crosses (one German shephard, one pointer) and older, bigger bitches. Don't know if this has anything to do with it. She played beautifully with a cocker spaniel we met on yesterday's walk.
It's shaken my confidence in her nature towards other dogs a little. Is it just her being a bit more assertive as she gets older or something to worry about?

Havent had any experience sorry but if she has always been ok then it may be she is just having an off day as we all do. The funny things with dogs they seem to know how to tell each other when enough is enough and maybe she was just saying back off. Doesn't mean to say she is becoming aggressive. Vinnie is very vocal and boisterous when playing and can sometimes look like he is not playing at all. Try not to worry just be aware. 

Thanks Inez  
Hopefully it was an off day, I do worry about her behaviour more because she's a Stafford. So many other walkers i meet have stories about their dogs being 'attacked' by staffs, I don't want her adding to any negative perceptions.

Aww yeah perhaps it was just an off day & yes we are more alert because we're Stafford owners and are protecting our breed, I think like us they don't like certain pooches/people on occasion, best just keep an eye on her and carry on as normal so she doesn't pick up on any nervousness she looking beautiful in your avatar

At 13 months Bacchus is also changing. Although he has always been heavily socialised, he now snarls at certain dogs. This is always when he is on-lead but I'm reluctant to test him off-lead just in case. He is still fine with all his friends he grew up with. Is this just a testosterone thing??

I think it might be just a one off. At that age though, for both genders, dogs often start to push their limits and come into their own mental and physical strength. A lot of the time, they calm right now once they reach about 2 years old.

Dempsey went through a really frustrating teenage phase which actually lasted a long time, but he's pig-headed and stubborn, so it isn't surprising. He often used to test the limits and have a growl at other dogs, but he settled down when he was about 2 1/2.

Same here, Axl is only just starting to calm down now and he's 20 months although he will have a grumble at some dogs but I think that's just because he doesn't like them, like humans, they can't like everybody

Thanks for the feedback. Hope he does settle down. I've put in so much work with socialisation, training classes etc. specifically because I don't want to end up with an anti-social dog.
Either way we love him to bits and he's a total sweetheart with everyone. It just makes his day when he meets people.
P.S.
While I was writing this Julie, who runs our staffy classes popped in on her way past and that's made his day.

Axl turns into a maniac when he meets people he loves everybody! As soon as he makes eye contact with someone his tail starts wagging he lowers his head and makes a grumbling sound which to someone who doesn't know staffies can scare them. If he gets close enough he'll try to jump up at them as well so I always keep him well away and give them plenty of warning lol! People who know staffies come straight over and give him a load of fuss but seriously its like all his christmases have come at once We're taking him to training classes again to try to learn how to stop him jumping up etc... people who don't know him always smile though when he starts wiggling he looks so daft!

I'd advise to be very slow to get worried about this and not to put too much store by only a couple of incidents. We all make mistakes and so do our dogs. My own dog also doesnt hit it off with every single other dog. Being on or off lead is definitely a factor. So is whether he has anything else to distract him at that moment. For example, if he's chasing a ball, he's fairly deaf and blind when it comes to noticing other dogs. I'm also trying to figure out if there are any 'rules'. For example, which dogs, when, why? Douglas has snapped at a couple of black labs, but the theory breaks down when he meets different black labs and everything's lovey-dovey. Another dog trying to take a toy off him can cause some swear words, but here it's good to distinguish between a low-level complaint (which can still look nasty to our perceptions) and a full-blown scrap, which needs immediate intervention. We live in the middle of a city and, though there are plenty of open green park areas nearby, I dont feel I can let Douglas make too many mistakes because of the pressure of people/dogs/babies in the same space. My solution is to put a short trailing lead on him when he's free. Only about 2m long. This doesnt impede his rocketing about, but it does greatly increase my chances of getting him back if I feel I need to reel him in. It gives me peace of mind. Just one final thing, also from experience with my own, frustration may also cause him to snap. So if he's worn out, has had a good walk, has had a good old game of tug (which he loves), then I believe that can also cause a zen-like peace to descend upon him. Just some thoughts and observations, hope this helps. Saffy is good!

Thanks yeahbut. I do find that if he is off-lead and I give him his favourite toy to carry, he is more concerned about hanging onto his toy rather than paying attention to other dogs.
It's not a big problem, just te occassional dog.

Thank you so much for the reassurance everyone, I hadn't thought that it could be a teenage thing  
She's not pushed the boundaries with us at all and I thought we might of passed that phase. Like Rodger I have put in a lot of work with socialisation, she meets lots of other dogs and you're right..I can't expect her to like them all!
No problems at all with people though, she does the ears back, head down, waggy bum dance too! She doesn't jump at people but if they bend down she will try to get in a sneaky kiss  

Cherry Boo wrote:Saffy has always been very friendly and passive with other dogs but has been a bit grouchy this week and I'm a little worried.
A couple of days ago we were leaving my sisters house and her neighbours dog (who we have met before) came to say hello. Everything seemed ok but then Saffy suddenly growled and snarled at the other dog so I immediately put her in the car. I put this down to it being hot, the other dog being off lead (Saffy was on lead) or her being protective of my young nieces.
Then today whilst we were out walking I stopped to chat to another owner and Saffy initiated play with his dog. They played for a couple of minutes but it all seemed to get too much for Saffy and she showed the other dog her teeth. We left quickly after that!
Both dogs were staffy crosses (one German shephard, one pointer) and older, bigger bitches. Don't know if this has anything to do with it. She played beautifully with a cocker spaniel we met on yesterday's walk.
It's shaken my confidence in her nature towards other dogs a little. Is it just her being a bit more assertive as she gets older or something to worry about?

Haha, just noticed we have the same name - well on with it. This is my opinion of the matter: I believe there were two things you could have done better. Firstly with your sister's neighbour's dog and that scuffle, I find that when dogs are dog-aggressive there is always a reason, it's not unpredictable or spontaneous it's not about age or adolescence or "bad mood swings"...some owners like to think that as long as dogs are not people-aggressive everything else is ok or, at least, not of immediate concern.


I once met a 12 year old maltese-terrier mix who would seemingly enjoy being petted but would snap all of a sudden, played with other dogs fine but then would start glaring from the corner of her eyes and snarling when they approached her from behind, dogs act out when they are trying to communicate something they don't like to other dogs and humans and often times it's simply a matter of them being territorial or trying to dominate each other or most often (this is the clincher) when THEY themselves do not want to be dominated, they will snap at the dog trying to mount them or make them submit.


The worst thing you can possibly do is to make a big deal out of it and separate them (i.e. I don't mean you should not stop the fight), rather, do not remove them from each other's presence, get them a few feet away from each other, calm them down with a firm correction and imposing manner and get them to "greet" each other again (this is when they go towards each other head bowed and sniff the other dog, a few licks is a bonus) watch their body language as this occurs and correct and beginnings of aggression e.g. when the hackles rise, tail taut and straight up in the air, wild look/fixation about the eyes, etc. Repeat the entire process should they decide to go at it again and again until one or both dogs understand that they are to be friends and interact as so!
By separating them right away in a panicked state you are unconsciously communicating to the dog that it was a negative experience and that that dog (the neighbour's dog) should have nothing to do with you or her.

At times we often think that the males are more aggressive than the females but there's something about two territorial bitches that sends me in a cold sweat. Anyway, we can never put it down to that reason alone, as Cesar Milan says "dogs do not rationalize", mated dogs will even fight over any and everything and even brothers or sisters. So it's all really down to how we owners step into responsible roles and influence our dogs into the right behaviors!

I hope next time Saffy gets a bit lippy (not the good kind) with her k9 contemporaries you give her a firm chook in the nook and you MAKE them play nice or at least be civil in each other's presence before you depart.  

CherryM wrote:
I hope next time Saffy gets a bit lippy (not the good kind) with her k9 contemporaries you give her a firm chook in the nook and you MAKE them play nice or at least be civil in each other's presence before you depart.  

CherryM

Would you care to elaborate on this comment "chook in the nook" I interpret this comment as advising a member to raise a hand to their dog which is something we certainly do not condone and will never advise on this forum . Earler you quote Cesar Milan , and well lets just say he is not a popular person round here.

As the rest of the world is changing we would only ever advise or condone positive reinforcement techniques , the last thing I or any other members want is to make a dog behave through fear , all this does is to lock in a behaviour which way well evolve in a nasty incident later in time .

Please make your supporting comments as until I read the Cesar word and this careless "chook in the nook" comment I was taking the post at face value and found it interesting

Thank you for your thoughts on my post CherryM.
Your suggestion to make the dogs greet again until they get it right sounds like a good idea if the other owner is willing to participate.
Perhaps i made it sound like I whisked her away immediately. Saffy was firmly told no and to stop it on both occasions. It was gut instinct to remove her from the first situation as there were children around and the other dog was off lead. I felt that was the safest course of action for all just incase things were to escalate. The second time she was off lead and she did stop it and we said our goodbyes and calmly walked away.
With regard to your 'chook in the nook' comment I hope this has been misconstrued, it does sound rather like you are suggesting some kind of physical reprimand. Personally I do not agree with these types of 'training' methods, I would have thought that dealing with aggressive behaviour by being aggressive yourself would just scare/confuse the dog.

I think you did the right thing in taking her away in the first situation. With children around, the best thing to do is not to take risks and try to remove any threat

I understand why Cesar Milan would be unpopular as I myself was very skeptical and unimpressed with some of his methods but his suggestion to remember to give your dogs all it needs in order to stay balanced and happy (on their terms) really hit home. Exercise (physical), discipline (mental) and affection (emotional).

As with children it is often the ones who are undisciplined and unchecked that later become unruly and difficult in society. I am not encouraging anyone to physically harm their children or dogs, there is a massive difference between abuse (or aggression) and discipline and the shame is that most people can neither explain the difference nor execute the latter effectively.

My "chook in the nook" comment simply refferred to a method I use in order to direct my little friend's attention to me when he begins to give the "evil eye"  to any of his mates and he's clearly not feeling very friendly...and from experience when I have failed to do so he has gone on to lunge and or snap at them and I've had to raise my voice to be heard (I don't like to do this as passerbys misinterpret the entire situation as being much more serious than it really is and they are apt to give you and your dog that mistrustful look). Also the higher you raise your voice the less in control you feel and this could actually escalate the altercation. I don't want him getting in fights and hurting other dogs and I certainly do not want them retaliating and hurting him back. I use my finger pads (my fore and middle finger) and give him a firm poke at the base of his neck just above the shoulder which uncoincidentally is the strongest part of his neck, I would also sometimes deliver this to his rear end if he's not sitting down. The strength of the "chook" is the same pressure I apply when giving him a massage (which he frequently prefers over being petted or stroked), it is not a punch or blow, he doesn't even flinch, rather he turns back and looks at me with a "yes, how can I help you?" expression which is what I want, to draw attention away from the potential target to myself.

& yes, when there are children present it is understandably best to be safe than sorry, so kudos. I'm of like mind that the other dog would most likely not have calmed down until yours was a safe distance away! In any case, just a suggestion to mull over and try a next time (if there is a next time) and given that it is safe and feasible to do so~

Regards!

CherryM wrote:I understand why Cesar Milan would be unpopular as I myself was very skeptical and unimpressed with some of his methods but his suggestion to remember to give your dogs all it needs in order to stay balanced and happy (on their terms) really hit home. Exercise (physical), discipline (mental) and affection (emotional).

It isn't this that makes him unpopular here - it's his use of prong & e-collars, plus the kicks and punches (his 'discipline', which is most certainly more physical than mental). Plus, his method of training is based on flawed research, and is very much outdated.