I feel i should justify myself to y'all

I was just putting a comment on about dog crates, and how Louby loves hers, but she is in it all day while we work, and i feel i have to justify myself and say 'Its not ideal but she was found as a stray, and the life with us where we she is loved and spoilt rotten, and taken on great walks is better than the alternative had she been found by the dog warden or worse, a horrible chav' blah blah blah, and its cos i dont want to be judged by the fab people on here. But at the same time i want to be honest. I know some people wont agree with her being locked in all day, but it is a big crate, and i make sure she has things to occupy her, but the guilt i feel about it is terrible, so she is spoilt..
(this is me probably justifying it to myself?!?!).

Depends what you mean by 'all day'.

from 8.30 to 5.00

Too long.

8.5 hours! Would you be able to hold your bladder that long wothout extreme discomfort?

Is there nobody who can pop in & let her into the garden for a pee during the day?

I know it is. Thing is, we werent planning on getting a dog, i love dogs more than people, but we work. But she was found by my mum at the local shops, she was chipped but the chip was never registered, we took to bookface and eventually found the owners but they didnt want her back,.

There isnt anyone to look in on her or else that would be happening.

As for her holding her bladder all day, if we go out with her boomer ball she doesnt go to the toilet until we have finished playing with it, even though there is ample time to go before we get the ball out of the bag. If she was desperate she would go as soon as she was out? x

Not really. If she's excited that you're back & you then play with her, she'll carry on holding it. But it isn't good for her.

If you're out that long, & you can't get someone to pop in, then at the least she should be able to move around - a crate should never be used for that length of time.

You could phone a local dog walking/care company and ask them to check in for 15-30 minutes during the day so that she can go to the toilet and stretch her legs. The interaction would benefit her as well.

Their services are usually quite reasonably priced.

I honestly dont know what to do then, when she was spayed a few weeks ago, she had a cone thing on her head, so we left her out of the crate during the day, and we came home to the post being chewed up and various other things. The last thing we want it to be annoyed at her when she has been on her own.
I even asked work if i could work through my lunch everyday so that i finish an hour early, but they will only let me do it on fridays.
At weekends i rarely leave the house as i want her out and about as much as possible. If im out for an hour or so i will leave her out of the crate.

Unfortunately we just dont have the money to pay for a dog walker, at the moment she is costing us a fortune in vet bills becuase she has dodgy skin, this isnt covered by the insurance as they say its pre existing condition.
A dog walker would be so ideal.

Please don't worry about her being left alday!

I've had 3 Staffs before I got Doug and each one of those was left a similar amount of time as everyone in the house worked. I go home at lunch now and every day when I go in Doug is sound asleep and I have to wake him up! I can almost guarantee Louby will do the same. It's what dogs do Not everyone has the option to stay at home for various reasons or have a dog walker.

If you are worried about Louby chewing things, my advise would be at the weekend leave her for 30mins out of the crate whilst you go out. Then gradually increase these times. Whilst you are out give her a frozen stuffed kong and a toy she can chase or chew to keep her occupied. Most dogs will chew your favourite things as they smell the most like you so remove these before you go out

Don't feel guilty though as she is clearly in a better home with you

Have you considered building her a pen in the garden? They can quite easily be made. The area can be divided into an indoor and outdoor unit to allow her access to both sun and shade. That way, she's able to stretch her legs and go to the toilet when she needs to.

Hello. I totally get your dilemma. When I first got Rupert he would pee, poo and chew everywhere. I remember putting him in my room one time and he had ripped and destroyed a lamp from my bedside cupboard; chewed up a leather chair - the stuffing was all over the floor; scratched and opened the other bedside table too and chewed up the contents; opened my closet and torn anything long (i.e. dresses and scarves) off their hangers and also ruined many of them. I was really shocked. He had done something similar before. I decided it was because he was anxious I wasn't coming back and I just sat down on the bed and stroked him. I also realised it was partly my fault as I had left all these things within reach.

So I went back to basics. I left him in his crate for ten minutes while I went out, came back, let him out of crate. Maximum period about an hour and a half. Once he got the hang of that I put him in the spare room where there was nothing to chew. He did manage to destroy his dog bed once. Anyway, as he learned to trust me more the chewing went down. I also told him off when he chewed things gratuitously and he knows now that when I say "what's this?" pointing to a chewed up package or whatever that he's in trouble - he will scuttle away to his crate (I don't do anything else, it's just to remind him that it's not on).

Anyway now he has free reign of the flat. He sometimes likes chewing cardboard if I leave it around but otherwise he is really not interested in doing anything except sleeping. And he is still v young - 2 years old.

I am going to post some very useful help that I read regarding how to get your dog to stop chewing next.

Thank you karly. She does have a kong wobbler, and ive just bought her Nylabone which has arrived today. she did have lots of other chews and bones, but is on a hypoallergenic diet so non of that now.
We saw a trainer and she said not to worry too much about her being in her crate. But she did say that she did need to be kept more occupied through the day so she isnt sleeping so much, as she is extremely giddy when we get in, which is understandable.

Hi Eleanor, unfortunately we only have a front yard, so there is no way i would leave her out on her own through the day, plus not big enough for a pen, but thanks though x

We are going to get a basket to go over the letter box, as she chews the post, my mums holiday docs were a casualty. Its just so hard to leave her out then go to work and hope for the best...I would love nothing more than to leave her out to sleep on the sofa and have more room.

Dont justify yourself to any1, although your situation isnt perfect, your dog will live a longer and happier life then if she had been left were your mum found her. Dont feel bad.

Can she be confined to the passage, with a bed and toys?

Mrs McFisher wrote:As for her holding her bladder all day, if we go out with her boomer ball she doesnt go to the toilet until we have finished playing with it, even though there is ample time to go before we get the ball out of the bag. If she was desperate she would go as soon as she was out? x

Not necessarily. Even when Loki's desperate for a wee, he'll forget he needs to go if there's something exciting about. He used to pee in the kitchen because we were playing with his toys and he'd forget he needed to go out until it was too late

Of course she's loved and spoilt rotten, and if she loves the cage then great, but it is too long without a bit of a break. No-one that could pop round and let her out for the toilet and a bit of affection, even if only for a little while?

Hargar wrote:Dont justify yourself to any1, although your situation isnt perfect, your dog will live a longer and happier life then if she had been left were your mum found her. Dont feel bad.

That's all very well, and I know that many dogs are left whilst owners are at work, but not in a crate. That just isn't on.

Hi Mrs Mcfisher! I'm lucky because my other half is at home in the day to care for my dogs. But if we do have to go out for the odd day I either walk them for an hour or so then leave them with a kong/stag bar/chewies in seperate crates or we put them in our garden so they can go in the shed and they have a run which lets them have a wee. The run was really cheap and can even be attched to a crate. We added another layer of wire at the bottom which is dug under the soil so that they can't dig out!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/CHICKEN-PLAYPEN-ENCLOSURE-chicken-enclosure/dp/B0064OEJGM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1368716239&sr=8-3&keywords=rabbit+run

That's all very well, and I know that many dogs are left whilst owners are at work, but not in a crate. That just isn't on.[/quote]

I don't mean to be rude but I think you are being very unfair with your replys.

We all know that this situation is not "ideal" but maybe you could provide HELPFUL suggestions to Louby's owner rather than chastising her.

Just a thought!!

Sorry caryll, but whats the other option??? As already stated the garden is in the front and to small for a run, no1 is around to let her out during the day. Are they ment to put her in a pound??? Which she would be locked up most of the time anyway. Tink not......... I suggest getting up earlier and going for a walk with her before work and a walk when you get home......

Thanks Karly, was just thinking exactly the same thing. Whilst i know its not ideal, by no stretch of the imagination, we didnt go out and get a dog knowing we didnt have time for her. For me, i felt she was still better off with us than the alternative of either being left on the street to come in harms way, or the dog warden where im sure she would have been pts.
Im not asking for people to give me a cuddle, but any suggestions i will take on board. you only have to look through my posts to see how many things i have taken on board by coming on here.
I love Louby more than anything and will do anything i can to make her life an enjoyable and comfortable as possible, but within our means, wether thats room or money...

I do get up at 6.30, so that she has a couple of hours out of the crate in the mornings, which includes a good walk. Then as soon as i get home, i am changed and taking her out. I dont have a social life becuase i dont want to go anywhere in the evenings, even if she is left out fo crate cos she needs to be with us. At weekends we go on lovely long walks and she is with me practically the whole time. the dog rules my life, and i love it!! Just dont love the guilt..x

Caryll, unfortunately we only have a small house, you walk into the living room from the garden. We dont have a passageway im afraid.

Dont have any guilt, uve taken in a stay dog and changed her life. Enjoy it

I think that putting a post on here about how a dog is put in a crate all day is bound to provoke some strong reactions as its not ideal.

Caryll suggested allowing access to a hallway so as to increase the areas she can go, she's not saying take the dog to the pound.

Is there an area Louby could be shut into like the kitchen? With her crate open in there as well. Are you working on her chewing at the weekend? Sounds like she has alot of toys already

Its a horrible feeling when you think you're not doing everything possible for your dog. I know we've had to leave our two for a few long days but we are lucky enough to have a heated kennel and run outside. You need to find some pubs where your pup is welcome too! Then you can have a night out with you're whole family

You should maybe try to find some dog walking friends at the weekends then eventually you may be in a position for them to come let her out or look after her in the day time (dreaming here probably but trying!!)

The time that a dog wants to chew most is directly after you go out and also often after they come back from exercise. It is really good to redirect their urge to chew rather than trying to stop it all together. Chewing is natural for a dog. You could ask the butchers for a marrow bone. Or stuff a Kong with liver treats or whatever else. Or give him a chuck-it ball to chew. Whatever he likes, just not the sofa.

You're welcome

I've had another thought (if you don't mind?!) do you think Louby could suffer from mild separation anxiety hence why she distroys things when you go out? If you spend alot of time with her to make up for the week days she may have this. I unknowingly gave Doug it when I first got him. I was making up for him being a rescue and me going to work, I killed him with kindness if you like

I would definitely try leaving her for small periods of time out of the crate whilst you are out and go from there.

Thanks Cecsa1. We have a tine kitchen, wouldnt be much better than crate.

I think im going to have to take the bull by the horns, and staffy proof my living room and let her stay out, and keep my fingers crossed. she doesnt have a good track record.

PS on the feeling of guilt I know lots about it. I think we all do. I forgot to feed our two on sunday night as our day was not in routine so they got fed rather late at night!

You could be right Karly. literally from the moment we get in from our walks and i sit down, she is on me knee, the whole time. My husband doesnt get a look in..she is literally in mid air before my bum touches the sofa...

Just remove all the things that you love or cost alot as these will be the 1st to go!

Let us know how you get on and don't worry we're here to help (but not clean up unfortunatly!)

Maybe get Louby another bed that is different from the one in the crate. Doug has 2, one in the kitchen and one in the lounge. The lounge one he uses when he's not allowed on the sofa, ie when we have friends over or when he wants to chew a toy/stagbar. It's next to the sofa so he's still in the same room and near enough for the comfort but not his "sleep" bed. You could have your's on the floor and encourage Louby to lay there when you get in so she's not "leaving the floor before your bum hits the chair"!

I think what you have done is fab, i know its not ideal but you have gave a lovin home to an unwanted staffie i think thats awesome... take on board the positive replies. Think its hard to get the real jist of what people say by written word so often found in txt msgs and the dreaded "f- book" which is why i usually stay away from forums and such like but love this site mainly to see other staffies like yours which are well loved.

When you leave the house don't make a big to-do. Don't even say goodbye as she may get anxious. You can practice this on the weekend in small doses and then gradually build up. Go for a pint of milk, come back. You can start her in the crate and v gradually give her more freedom. She needs to earn full reign of the house - one step at a time.

In my (limited) experience it takes 2 weeks of regular practice and baby steps to hard wire any big change in behaviour. Be patient with yourself. I think also do not make a big deal when you come back, ignore her for a couple of minutes then cuddles etc.

I think her chewing is completely normal for a new dog. I know how shocking it is. Rupert also chewed up the heels of every single pair of heels I had - he wouldn't do it now but you can imagine how I felt.

KarlyandDoug wrote:We all know that this situation is not "ideal" but maybe you could provide HELPFUL suggestions to Louby's owner rather than chastising her.

Just a thought!!

And it's 'just a thought' that maybe you should read all the posts - we are trying to sugest alternatives.

Hargar wrote: Are they ment to put her in a pound??? ..

Where on earth has it been sugested that she's put in the pound? Get off your high horse & realise that being shut in a crate for over 8 hours isn't fair on the dog. We are trying to sugest alternatives, not saying put her in apound!

Thanks karly and Angiemarkyoung, and everyone else.

I do feel better for 'coming out' and admitting things aren't perfect.

I will give all suggestions a go, obviously if they are possible. I shall update you once we have bought the post catcher thingymebob...xx

Take heart, though. Dempsey was a real pain for chewing - he would chew anything & everything. But now he's nowhere near as bad. He'll occasionally attack the cushions ( ) but that's about it.

Have you thought about getting a stag bar for her to chew while you're out? They're hypoallergenic so it shouldn't interfere with her itchy skin.

Thanks Caryll, yes we have lost several cushions too.

She has a stag bar already, she liked alot at first but now isnt so bothered for it. But i think its maybe because its constantly out for her? We take her Kong wobbler off her at bedtime, but give it back for through the day. I also bought a Nylabone, which arrived today, maybe i should alternate what i give her, rather than everything out all the time? might make her want them more if they are not on tap?

It may well help.

You could also try smearing some peanut butter on the kong or stag bar to make it more interesting. That might get her through the first hour or so, and she could well settle down after that.

You did indeed give her a better life, However listen closely here, while the people going "It's fine you saved her" may seem sweet and kind, they're actually making it worse. It's NOT fine for a dog to be confined for 8 hours and then it sounds like you put her in the crate at night to sleep, that's simply not fair on the dog, being in a cage 8 hours day is only slightly better than being in a pound cage all day in my opinion and in a pound they'd have access to the toilet at least.

I'm not saying you're a monster but everyone with the "OMG IT'S FINE SHE'S BETTER OFF WITH YOU ANYWAY" simply aren't helping.

If you really can't get a single person to pop in during lunch to let her out for 5 minutes then you really do need to try and train the separation anxiety and redirect her chewing. If you sat in one position all day at work, wouldn't it/doesn't it hurt your leg/back?

You may have saved her but don't save her just to leave her locked in a cage for the majority of her day, can you imagine how she may even feel punished, everyone leaves her and then she's locked up unable to go toilet and she doesn't understand why.

I have respect that you ARE looking for an alternative solution however, she's lucky that you care enough to ask

You don't have to justify yourself to anyone

That for me personally is a bit long, but there are a lot worse things happening to animals. If possible look about a dog walker to pop in even for half an hour mid way and it would be a lot kinder on her

I know a few ppl that leave their dogs all day - but in a kitchen or spare bedroom.
A cpl of frozen kongs and stagbar to chew, toys etc - they are generally 'happy'

It not ideal to have your pooch in the crate for that length of time. 4-5 hrs max at a push.
But....

If u have absolutely no other option whatsoever - then I'd invest in an XXXL crate. That way it's a good size to potter about in.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dog-Cages-All-Breeds-of-Puppy-and-Dog-Crates-Puppy-House-Dens-/130838785234?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Kitchen_Toasters&var=&hash=item1e76996cd2

Of course she's better off with you, she's not being neglected and she's loved and happy. But it is a long time to be by yourself. They crave affection and human contact, so it isn't ideal. You know that, so I don't think anyone's doing wrong to say that, because we all agree. Could you maybe get a dog walker to walk her for a bit while you're at work? Just to break up the time and etc.

Sorry to jump into this post but, I leave Leroy in a crate when I go to work from 9.45pm-6.15am an I don't like to do it but I did in advice from here that I shouldnt leave my two together when am not in, Diesel is left in the hall with a babygate seperatin the hall from the kitchen where Leroy is (i dont have a kitchen door) I cant just leave him out the crate as he just jumps the babygate!
Yes it is not ideal, an expectin them to hold their pee for that long is bad, but on the other hand how long is it between most dogs gettin out for their last pee at night an first pee in the mornin?
I dont have the option of gettin a dog walker/ friend to let them out for a bit as I doubt there r 2am dog walkers....

Havent read all the comments, cause i can't be bothered. But 8.5 hours is ridiculous. There is no justification, i'm sorry.

Ticklymac wrote:Yes it is not ideal, an expectin them to hold their pee for that long is bad, but on the other hand how long is it between most dogs gettin out for their last pee at night an first pee in the mornin?
I dont have the option of gettin a dog walker/ friend to let them out for a bit as I doubt there r 2am dog walkers....

Dogs tend to sleep overnight (they're diurnal) and the whole system slows down (as it does in humans) when they're asleep. So crating overnight isn't usually a problem. In your situation it probably isn't as bad (as long as he isn't crated for periods during the day as well) because it's at night, and hopefully they both go to sleep.

Hayley, if you can't be bothered to read the post then don't comment x

I can if i feel like i have something to say. I am replying to your first post, which is what happens on a forum.

That makes me feel a bit better although I still feel bad, he's hardly ever in it durin the day really once a week when im volunteerin my oh leaves the house an hr or so before am home so he gets popped in.

I just had another idea with regards to a dog walker and finances, would you consider contacting your local volunteer office they may be able to put you in contact with a volunteer dog walker in your area. This is one thing we have in our town, people can put their names down for volunteer positions of all kinds of things such as dog walkers.

Yes it would mean you putting your trust into someone going into your home but you would also get the benefit of Louby having a walk or at least use of the garden during the day. Just something else to consider.