Need help/advice on trusting Axl off lead again...

Firstly, hello everyone, I'm new to this site but I've read a few posts and everyone here seems to know Staffies inside out so thought I'd join up not just to ask advice but hopefully to be of help as well!

Anyway, I have an ongoing issue, I admit its more my issue than Axl's but I thought I'd see what suggestions I can get from these forums, I'm making myself (and probably Axl as well) miserable. I need to give you the background first so you know the full story. Here goes .. Axl is 13 months old now and he's the biggest sop ever at home and out doors but very very excitable (that's a staffy thing though right?) Last August I was on a walk with him off lead with my parents and their dog (they have an English Setter called Harry who's about 18 months old now). Harry and Axl love each other they've been playing since Axl could go out on walkies and i've had no problems.

Anyway, we're on this walk and up ahead I see a pack of dogs with a couple on the lead, Axl is by my feet and walking nicely so I go to grab him to put him on his lead as I can see dogs on leads ahead. My parents say to leave him off lead as he's "learning" and that he would be fine. I've never had a staff before and my parents have no idea about the breed, so we were all novices. Anyway I gave Axl a "go on" signal as he was waiting for me up ahead, letting him know he can follow Harry and go say hello to the pack. (Note Harry had run up and was already in amongst the pack by now saying hello). Axl goes off to chase after Harry.

I could see them up ahead and Axl was wagging his tail and sniffing the other dogs with Harry. I'm a bit unclear as to what happened next as I was still catching up but by the time I got to Axl he was on top of one of the dogs on a lead holding the back of his neck, not growling or anything but he would not let go, he had the dog flat on the floor. After what seemed like ages but could have only been a minute I got him off and put him on his lead. The other dog was unhurt he had a broken collar but other than that no cuts or anything. As soon as I had Axl on his lead he was hopping about wagging his tail and trying to get to the other dog again but to me it seemed like he wanted to play. When I got him home I noticed two huge scratches down his belly and I wonder if he thought the dog was attacking, I'm not sure. They were there for at least 2 weeks so they were quite bad. Since then he's played with Harry again and he's also played with a few other dogs that we know. He's not had any other problems.

I'm fully aware it was my fault for letting Axl run up to a pack of dogs when some were on leads, he's so bouncy and excitable I should have put him on his lead when I originally wanted to and not listened to my parents. The problem now is that that fight was so scary especially because I didn't expect my gentle dog to turn like that. It frightened the living daylights out of me. I keep him on th elead all the time unless I'm absolutely sure there's nobody around which is rarely and I know he can pick up on my anxiousness but I just can't seem to help it. I've taken him to dog training to try to work on his recall and I've read lots of books and intenet forrums to try ot learn as much as I can but I can't shake that "scared" feeling, I just don't want him getting hurt or hurting somebody elses' dog. What worries me the most is the way he just seems to run up to other dogs without a care in the world and try to play with them even if they don't want to, people have told me to let him off and let other dogs tell him off but I'm scared he'll grab hold of them if they tell him off.

I guess what I would like to know is whether anyone else has had similar experiences and how they got through it?

I don't want to punish Axl for something he's not to blame for, it was my fault for letting him run up to the dogs in the first place and I'm well aware of that

Anyway if anyone has any suggestions or advice on getting my confidence back with him i'd be grateful, I'm driving myself mad :s

Thanks for reading!

Welcome to the forum feel free to post an introduction here:

https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/f7-new-member-introductions

We also have a gallery for you to share pics of Axl with us.

Anyway, to address your issue...I know what you're going through because I never let Loki off the lead around dogs or people. He's very friendly, but still jumps up and bites people, and with dogs, he's a bit too excitable and can annoy them. Keep him on the lead around dogs; if you want him to meet the dog, ask the owner if it's OK if they meet. Better to do that than let Axl run up to a potentially aggressive dog. It sounds like he might have just been playing, Staffs are known to play rough and it can look scary to people who aren't used to seeing it.

If you want him to be able to run around but still want control, you can buy a long training line, that way you can pull him back to you if you want to, but otherwise he can run around. I'd still suggest just asking the owner first though just to be safe.

Hiya Tara, thanks for your reply, I will keep him on a long lead for now and only let him off with dogs I know then maybe when he's a little older and calmer I'll gradually start to let him off again.

I'll head over to the introduction bit now and make a post

Thanks again!

He can still meet new dogs, of course, just that it'll be easier if you ask first if their dog is friendly, so you know beforehand whether or not it should be OK. If they get along then they'll be happy playing, and it might set your mind at rest too, the more positive experiences you have

Hi there!

As Tara says, get a long training line/lead, about 50' long. When you get to the park clip it on & let the end trail, but always make sure it's well within reach. That way you can keep control & still let him have fun!

To be honest it sounds more like either self defence or rough play - if he'd really meant it he would have drawn blood!

Completely agree with those above, the long training lead will help you keep control when you need it, and let Axl have a play and sniff about too.

It doesnt sound like he had a full on fight more like a dominance thing standing over and holding the other dog, it could also have been a protective move for your parents dog. Don't give in, take every chance you can to interact with other dogs as its a joy to watch them all play together. Socializing is the best cure and most staffs respond well but if your unsure then just keep him on the lead till your happy that he wants to play.

hey and welcome, i would generally recommend same as above, alot of people use the training leads. I went back to basis with tyke just purely as he wasnt listening to me only my OH and it seems to be paying off but i always put tyke on the lead when we see approaching dogs just as i do not know what there dogs are like and as tyke can get a bit giddy!

keep us updated

Completely identify with you Debs, and Axl. My dog is 13 months old and his main aim in life is to play with other dogs! They're still puppies at this age and just want to have fun. And Staffs are particularly exuberant! Not all other dogs (or their owners!) want to play however, so it is best to err on the side of caution when meeting an unknown dog, as previous posts have advised. So in this day and age, I find it best to have my dog under control ie on a lead when meeting previously unknown dogs. Your Staff will undoubtedly want to say "hello" to the new dog, so it would be polite to ask the other dog's owner if that is OK by them and their dog, explaining that your dog is very young and friendly and loves meeting other dogs. Most often I have found that the owner and dog are friendly in return. If by chance the other dog is DA, then you will in all liklihood be advised of this by the dog's owner, so you will know to give that dog a wide berth now and in future (in a friendly way!), meanwhile encouraging your Staff to follow you (with treats if necessary).

Ref the pinning that Axl did, I would tend to agree with Tony above that it was probably a normal dominance display, which dogs do as a normal course of their interaction with other dogs and will not usually result in a fight unless both dogs concerned are convinced that they are "top dog".

If the owners of the "pack" got all upset with you and Axl, then it is natural that you will be feeling scared of a repeat. Please don't give up on the socialiation of Axl because of this once incident though! ><

Hi i'm a new member but i have had 4 staffies in my time and would never let any of them off the lead in a public place as i think it's just not worth the grief from other dog owners when something goes wrong (as it eventually will) and their dog comes off worse.Just a suggestion hope it helps.

Hey everyone

Thanks so much for all your advice, I'll keep you all posted. This weekend we are going to Wiltshire and staying with someone who has a lovely Cocker Spaniel so hopefully I'll be able to let him play with her. I do love it when he's off lead and running around, he look so happy!

my previous 6 mth old stall x eng bull terrier attacked a small dog in park, could not get him to let go. Very scary to see what a 6 mth old pup can do. we had to rehome him eventually as him and other dog were fighting, new staff now as old staff passed away, im nervous to let im off lead it dont help that he has not been socialised in previous home and was taken from mum at 3 weeks old. i can sympathise with you, i wanted a dog i can trust after what happened before. he will prob always have to be on lead as i dont have the trust there

The long line is a great tool and I recommend them to everyone. They tend to play on the rough side and if you are not used to what normal play looks like it can be scary. Here is a link on body language that should be of use

http://staffy-bull-terrier.com/dog_body_language

If you are in doubt or unsure of his behaviour it's okay to step in and put a stop to it. Also please be aware that he will take his behavioral ques from you. If you are scared or nervous he will pick up on this and act accordingly.

It's really just a balance and experience issue. The more positive interactions he has with dogs the better his behaviour will become and you will learn to be able to read his body language.

I would also advise that you always interact with the handler of any new dog you encounter to ensure their dog is friendly with others.

Just to pick up on what JStaff said above, if your dog sees that you are trusting the owner of the other dog he is more likely to trust the dog too, calm owners=calm dogs.

Hello Debs

Until you are 100% confident with your dog and their reactions to other dogs then he should always be on the lead around other dogs , no ifs or buts about this one. If he is bouncy and playful this can often be a wind up to other dogs and these situations happen , believe me when I say I am talking from experience. And then we possibly have a defence situation and its all gone a lot wrong for you.
I see you acknowledge your responsibilities so great start
Keep him on the lead , make maximum use of the training lead. If you have the time take part in any activities you can that give him the opportunity to socialise but never let him get close enough to dogs where they can make contact unless you and the other owner are comfortable and then make sure its a gentle introduction.
I always have mine clipped on as I go past other dogs but being very casual and calm instead of grabbing very fiercely to a short lead and showing tension , as said above calm dog = calm owner and every time he passes a dog calmly reward him , for me its passing dogs without a growl He will eventually learn that this is the preferred reaction.
It is a sad fact but as the owner of as Staffy your responsibilities are 10 fold in the eyes of other dog owners. If you're dog wants to do some damage he can and will, same as other dogs but the perception is so much worse.
Make good use of the training lead , recall should be practised till it is bullet proof and good use of the "watch me" command

some really good info nory's rescuer gave me on introducing dogs/reducing aggressive behaviour!

Introductions and Correcting Aggressive Dog on Dog Behavior



Never introduce dogs off lead in your home.

Meet at a location near by, not too close to where your dog lives. Do this in day light.

Take the dogs on leads, keep them close to a park but not one that already belongs to one of the dogs (territorial aggression). If there's no park just walk them side by side, they can gaze but no sniffing or meeting head on till body language relaxes and they don't look excited, this takes about half an hour. If tail is stiff or they appear to be standing over one another make a correction. Keep walking.

When relaxed allow sniffing, don't be nervous because they will know and want to protect you, just chill out.

When comfortable with their friendly hello let them off the lead. With some dogs the park should be fenced and small or at home. So that you can contain excitement. Let them play but nothing too roudy, if it gets roudy stop them and let them play again once calm, Roudy includes snapping, growling and loud barking or standing over one another.

What happens mostly is that people introduce dogs the wrong way because their dogs are 'friendly' then fights break out later in the game and this is harder to address, prevention is best.

We introduce all dogs like this, never leave treats or toys around a new dog and your dog and if there are signs of jealousy, pat NO ONE . A hand on a dogs back is a pat, when you move your dog away that's still attention! Be mindful if a dog attacks another and then the other one 'goes away' the dog won. You don't want this, it will say to the dog that they can get away with being mean to other dogs and you will make them go away. You're better off if you have another person to make that dog sit stay and wait till its calm with the other dog doing the same, then separate them and treat.

This will mean they are less likely to fight again but if they do, repeat. Sometimes it takes up to two weeks if a new dog arrives into the pack for them to understand boundaries and good play.If the other dog is aggressive and doesn't have a responsible owner that is the only time I would separate and remove dogs straight away but hopefully the opportunity for this won't arise.