Annoyed is not the word for this!! GRRR

Something ''terrible'' happened today and this time I can not blame Dragon! Some people don't have a brain at all!

So why am I so * off?
We was at the park with my dog which is dog aggressive, but it doesn't matter my dog is still allowed at the park and I'm still allowed to walk my dog as long as I can control him.
So we was at the park and a German Shepherd came (at this time he was far away with his owners), we put Dragon on the lead since he doesn't like other dogs.. If you have a brain and see me putting my dog on the lead, what would you think? Well I'd think that dog is not friendly either to people or dogs, that's why the owner when he sees a dog puts his dog on the lead. Well the owners didn't care about that and started walking with their dog of the lead, the dog was running around and not responding to their commands. So I get Dragon and go ''hide'' behind a tree so the other dog doesn't see us and come over... Well the other dog didn't see him but still ran towards us and ended up seeing Dragon, my girlfriend shouted really loud while the dog was still running towards us ''Our dog is not dog friendly!!'' she said it about 5 times... Now c'mon what would you do if you cared about your dog?! RUN AS FAST AS YOU TO PUT HIM ON THE LEAD!!! That's what I'd do! No the couple just walk very very slowly like they don't care, I ran around the tree pulling Dragon by his lead so the other dog wouldn't get close to us, my girlfriend was trying to grab the other dog but the dog tried to bite her so she couldn't exactly hold the other dog, my dog ends up escaping from the collar because he was pulling that hard to go forward and I pulling that hard to go backwards that the collar ended up slipping (I don't have a clue how as the collar is tight on him!) I do blame that bit on myself a little bit since my dog escaped, but if you think about it... If they ran towards their dog to get him when we warned them, my dog would not of escaped!
I forgot to mention the other dog bite Dragon not badly but still did while Dragon was on the lead, so the other dog tried to bite my girlfriend and bite my dog.

Well after my dog escaping from the lead you can tell what happened, specially if the other dog was close to us and the owners were no where close.

My dog bite the other dog badly and would not let go, while all this happened... The couple had a go at us! I swear to god I could of killed the man... he pushed me once and then he grabbed me by my neck! That was not ok and I told him ''Do you know how old I am? I'm 17 and you most be well over 18, and you're being aggressive towards me so right now I'm calling the police'' told my girlfriend to call the police but she didn't end up calling the police. People like this do my head in! Then the funniest thing EVER a lady came over to help.. I was so * off I couldn't even hear her.. but she wanted to help them and us so she was on no one's side.. but the couple said to the lady... ''You seen that their dog was not on the lead, and aggressive dog should be on the lead'' are you taking the *?!?! My dog was on the lead even when they were far away from us, as soon as we seen their dog we put ours on the lead! She was lying because she knows her dog was also aggressive and tried to bite our dog before our dog bite him! Then she started saying her dog just wanted to say hello, well if by hello she means put his mouth around my boys neck while my boy is strangling himself on his collar to get him...

I think they ended up calling the police because Dragon did hurt the other dog very very bad and we did say sorry for that although I didn't even want to say it because they were way to rude and were aggressive to me as well.
We went before the police came and the other dog was bleeding and my boy has blood from the other dog on him. But I just can't help thinking if they cared about their dog why not get run to the dog and get him when we said our dog was not friendly!

Some owners are so irresponsible! Dragon and your girlfriend are okay, aren't they?

Oh gosh, I hope your all ok?

Yes Dragon is not hurt at all, the other dog tried to bite him but because I was walking backwards the other dog didn't have a chance to actually bite him, I'm sure when he escaped the other dog ended up biting him, but Dragon is so fast and athletic so he'd run like under the other dog and when he had a chance he grabbed the other dog by the neck.
The other dog didn't end up biting my girlfriend he went to but she moved away..
In the other hand I think Dragon really did hurt the other dog and there's blood on Dragon from the other dog, the dog didn't deserve it but the owners did, they need to learn that when someone says my dog is not friendly they need to get their dog and not just walk like they don't care.
When we left they still hadn't put the others dog collar on and the dog was on the floor crying.. It's a shame that the owners didn't get him, because nothing would of happened.

I just found out that the dude was a rugby player, that's probably why he tried to resolve things with me in violence thinking he's ''hard'', but when I mentioned the police he backed away straight away.

Gosh bro, im glad yall didnt get hurt. thankful that there are leash laws here.

Some people don't have a brain and then they try to blame their stupidity on others. If it was my dog and someone said my dog is not friendly, and I seen that my dog was running towards the other dog, I would run straight there and get my dog, not just walk like nothing is going to happened.

This has happened more than once when we tell other owners that our dog is not friendly.. all they do is walk very slowly to get their dog, seems like they don't even care, but all them times Dragon wasn't able to escape from the collar, I seriously don't know how he did it this time.. I blame myself for that but all the rest I blame the other owners for not getting their dog.

Wow, I hope all three of you are ok! ><

DragonTheStaffie wrote: If you have a brain and see me putting my dog on the lead, what would you think? Well I'd think that dog is not friendly either to people or dogs, that's why the owner when he sees a dog puts his dog on the lead.

I know, I totally agree with you, there are some real plank heads out there. This is a huge bug of mine - I always put Dempsey on lead if there's a dog I don't know or a dog that I know he doesn't like, but that doesn't always stop other people letting their dog come over anyway!

What's done is done & you can't turn back the clock, but maybe for the future you could get a harness for Dragon so that if a dog comes over you can clip the lead on to the harness & he can't escape from it? If you have a training/police lead you'll be able to clip each end of the lead to the collar & the harness & have full control.

If the man called the police (which I doubt) you and your gf can both give your version of events & nothing more will come of it.

My girlfriends mum said the dog can be put down if they call the police? Is this true?
I mean I controlled my dog and held him for as long as I could, but the other owners were not in control and were warned that our dog was not friendly there for it should be their fault to? If they got their dog nothing at all would of happened.

But the only thing that I'm worried that might get me in trouble is the fact he escaped from the lead, they can always say it was my fault that the lead was not tight enough and all that, but the lead as always been that tight he has pulled and never escaped, I honestly have no clue how he got of the collar.

Could this get my dog put down? Or me ending up having to pay their vet bills?

DragonTheStaffie wrote:Could this get my dog put down? Or me ending up having to pay their vet bills?

No, on both counts.

Your dog was on a lead & you advised the other owners that he was dog aggressive. It is totally the other owners' fault, even though Dragon slipped his collar - the other dog went for Dragon first & he defended himself. I wouldn't even offer to pay part of the other dog's vet bills; yes, I feel sorry for the dog, but it was the owners' fault that it happened. Maybe they'll be a little more careful next time.

My god, can't believe how stupid people are. You notice the ones having a go at other dogs are the ones who let their dogs off the lead when their recall isn't good, or when they're aggressive themselves. Hell, even if their dog was friendly, Dragon isn't, it still could've ended really badly and it wouldn't have been your fault. It's a shame that Dragon got bit and that the other dog got hurt, but you can hardly be blamed for Dragon slipping his collar because of you trying to hold him back after telling the other owners that your dog doesn't get on well with dogs. Ugh. Well done for staying so calm considering the situation.

I really don't think dogs get put down for biting another dog, I think it's if they bite a person, but not sure. Even so, it'll be fine. The only reason Dragon got out of his collar was because the other owners wouldn't take their dog away after loads of warnings.

what is recomended if you have your dog on lead and your dog is in the process of being attacked by an un-leaded dog. would the leaded dog benefit from having his lead dropped so that he would have a better chance to protect himself?

I ask this because when i was 13 i saw a HUGE pitbull attack a man and his dog. the pit was unleaded, the man put himself between the pit and his dog, while the pit circled him trying to get the leaded dog, the man eventually scooped his dog up as the pit continued to circle and try and attack, the pit lunged and the man put his arm up to defend himself, the pit locked on.

I watched as the police beat this pit mercilessly with a baseball bat as it would not let go of my neighbors arm. the police came to my house and got the BIGGEST knife my mom had, he didnt get to use it as the dog warden showed and managed to wrestle the pits mouth open.

what is the right thing to do in a situation like that? when being attacked.

my neighbor terry almost died from blood loss. the pits owner, that douche left the scene as he heard the sirens, eventually incarcerated. the pit was put down the next day. as for me, im damn haunted by that, for myself, my wife and my pup.

what should one do when about to be attacked?

i do apologize for the long post and i don't mean to hijack it from you Joe.

Well I don't think they will your dog down. It was dog on dog, I would worried more about the vet bill. I think your girlfriend should have called the police,when she had her chance. He atacked you and his dog wasn't under control. Hope you all are ok.

Thank you I was worried about that. I'm sure from now on if they love their dog they'll keep him on the lead or at least run to him when someone says that their dog is aggressive, hopefully they learnt their lesson.
I feel sorry for the dog to, 1) because my dog hurt him 2) because he has stupid owners.

The reason we didn't end up calling the police was because I was worried they'd put my dog down or else I would of.

All you have to say that you told the person several times to put him/her on lead and they didn't. Explain it started the fight and even tried to bite your gf. Explain you were intimidated and scared and your dog only fought as he was frightened. Plus the fact that the owner put his hands on you.

Never ever tell anyone your dog isn't friendly Joe, as soon as you would say that you are leaving yourself open for trouble. Of course, say your dog isn't well socialised and not great with some dogs. Using the right terms will help you out.

I agree with Caryl, he won't have went to the police. He sounds like a fool.

Don't upset yourself over it (easier said than done, I know!), but put it down as experience. At least no human was injured, and that's the main thing.

It happens. If I had a pound for every time some idiot had allowed their dog to approach Dempsey (and Bandit before him), even though I'd told them he wasn't friendly, I'd be a millionaire!

MatLogan wrote:All you have to say that you told the person several times to put him/her on lead and they didn't. Explain it started the fight and even tried to bite your gf. Explain you were intimidated and scared and your dog only fought as he was frightened. Plus the fact that the owner put his hands on you.

Never ever tell anyone your dog isn't friendly Joe, as soon as you would say that you are leaving yourself open for trouble. Of course, say your dog isn't well socialised and not great with some dogs. Using the right terms will help you out.

I agree with Caryl, he won't have went to the police. He sounds like a fool.

Most people in my area are fools.

I can't say I was calm because I really did want to punch that dude and hurt him, I was just waiting for him to do it first so I could say it was self defense. My girlfriend still punched him as he grabbed me bless her.
Some people are stupid I swear, just shows how he didn't care about his dog and then when it gets bitten he starts having a go at us.

Caryll wrote:Don't upset yourself over it (easier said than done, I know!), but put it down as experience. At least no human was injured, and that's the main thing.

It happens. If I had a pound for every time some idiot had allowed their dog to approach Dempsey (and Bandit before him), even though I'd told them he wasn't friendly, I'd be a millionaire!

I know I'm more calm now but it still annoys me the fact that they have a dog and don't care about him and also the fact that he tried to strangle me. I bet he got scared when I said I was ringing the police and told him my age I then said ''So are you not going to hit me then? and laughed'' and he was like no i'm not

This is every dog owners nightmare, especially us staffie owners. I too have a staffie who would have done what Dragon did in those circumstances. But I learned a long time ago that because our dogs have such big necks when we put a collar on them that fits they can sort of stretch or lower their heads and the neck become elongated (if that makes sense) and they can pull out of the collar.

For this reason when walking Harry I use a collar and a harness and what is sometimes referred to as a 'police lead' or a 'double ended lead' and I clip one end on his collar and one end on his harness. Hopefully if one fails I still have hold of him by the other. These leads are not expensive.

Sorry that you have had such a bad experience today and good for you that you care about the other dog. Please don't worry your boy was defending himself and cannot be blamed for that. Tomorrow is another day!

Yes, if you really wanted to push it you could have him arrested for assault - he laid hands on you!

Put it behind you. Sometimes it isn't what happens that matters, but how you handle it & learn from it.

Im sorry to hear about your walk joe, we had a run in today not as bad as yours but its just miffs you off!! hope your all ok

Thank you everyone, from now on I'm going to start using the harness more often and I'm glad to know nothing can happen to my dog, I would call the police but I'm not going to, don't know his name or nothing about him all I know is, he's bald and a rugby player and aggressive .
But whatever, I'm going to put this behind me and if I see him again I'm going to walk away with Dragon to make sure nothing happens just hope his dog is ok and that he learns a lesson.

Some people are so stupid but dog on dog , no further action

Some dog owner's should be shot but can I ask why Dragon is dog aggressive? I only ask so I can prevent Bruno my pup becoming the same, is it to do with socializing pups with other dogs at a young age?

I hope the irresponsible dog owners dog is OK.

This is the reason Kenny is agressive towards some dogs. The same thing happen to hubby, dog off lead, owner made no attempt to rush to the scene. It was only a minor scuffle, but WOULD of been much worse. Dont upset yourself, some people are just plain stupid. What annoyed me, is in Kens situation, when the owner finally arrived, she said, "Oh, I didnt realise it was a Staff"!!!
That made me think she doesnt mind her dog fighting , as long as it's a "weaker" dog than hers !!! She also admitted her dog was aggressive and that she only walks him at night, as less chance of seeing a dog ! Personally, because of how Kenny can be, he's only off lead on our local enclosed rugby pitch when theres nobody around. All other times he's on lead. Our local pet shop made us a 20 foot Nylon lead (1000 lb breakpoint) for £6, atleast he can then sniff about and if we come across a dog, we just real him in lol

What an awful story and well done to you for doing the best you can for your boy.

With our breed you can do all the socalising you want with them they can still turn D/A its just something that clicks in some of them at certain age's and im not saying all will.

Billybunter wrote:With our breed you can do all the socalising you want with them they can still turn D/A its just something that clicks in some of them at certain age's and im not saying all will.

This is true.

Some will always be friendly, but some won't. They'll get to a certain age and then turn. If that happens there's very little you can do about it. You can limit the impact by making sure your dog's training is spot on & they'll listen to you, but they may never want to play with other dogs. It's just something you have to try and understand - it isn't the end of the world!

shazney wrote:Some dog owner's should be shot but can I ask why Dragon is dog aggressive? I only ask so I can prevent Bruno my pup becoming the same, is it to do with socializing pups with other dogs at a young age?

I hope the irresponsible dog owners dog is OK.

Dragon had another owner in the past. We got him at 1 year and a few months, when we got him he wasn't this aggressive towards my Labrador, I guess because he came in the Labrador's house and it wasn't his house he kinda realized he wasn't the boss around here, although he did try to show he wasn't scared of him by biting him but my Labrador was really fat and wouldn't hurt him as he grabbed all the Labrador's fat, but if it did hurt the Labrador he would lift his head up and throw Dragon away somehow (he was very strong). Dragon then soon realized not to mess with the Labrador and just kinda played rough with him. So since he never fighted with the Labrador when they showed us the dog we thought he was dog friendly took him out and he attacked another dog outside in the park, since then we've been very careful and put him on the lead everytime we see a dog, but you get them stupid people who don't care about their dog and when you tell them that your dog is aggressive they still won't come and get their dog, and then mine ends up biting the other but normally it's all under control because he's on the lead although if the owners don't come I would let go of the lead, since if they don't care about their dog and mine has basically no chances and will end up hurt if kept on the lead I would end up letting go, so he wouldn't get hurt (never did this though as normally the owners get there before I've had enough). Yesterday it was different, Dragon somehow escaped from the collar, I seriously don't know how because I've been using the collar for ages and he has never escaped, as he escaped there was no way of me stopping to aggressive dogs getting into a fight and Dragon ended up ''winning'' the fight I'd say, he is very strong compared to any other dog I know and once he grabs a dog that's it, the dog has no chances of getting out.

Then the owners of the other dog think it's my fault when they didn't get their dog just does my head in, specially when they see me and my girlfriend are young and think they can ''abuse'' us by shouting and treating us and pushing us, I was about to explode yesterday and punch the man, but I told him I was about to call the police and he backed off, so there was no need for violence. Dragon ended up letting go of the dog, we put him on the lead (took me ages I was shaking so much was so stressed I couldn't even undo the collar ) so we put him on his collar and went, we looked back and the other dog was on the floor making funny noises (crying) and then we realized Dragon has blood on him from the other dog, which is a shame if the owners got their dog in time nothing would of happened.

Caryll wrote:

Billybunter wrote:With our breed you can do all the socalising you want with them they can still turn D/A its just something that clicks in some of them at certain age's and im not saying all will.

This is true.

Some will always be friendly, but some won't. They'll get to a certain age and then turn. If that happens there's very little you can do about it. You can limit the impact by making sure your dog's training is spot on & they'll listen to you, but they may never want to play with other dogs. It's just something you have to try and understand - it isn't the end of the world!

Yes that's very true you can't make your dog play with other dogs if he doesn't want to, but it could be the end of the world if you come across some stupid owners and their dog is off the lead and aggressive and somehow ends up hurting your dog very badly, would be the end of the world for me if Dragon got hurt yesterday or died somehow because of that other dog and his owners.

That's the thing, some Staffords are just naturally DA - it's in their genes. Not all, obviously, but some, especially if they haven't had the greatest start to life.

Bandit was socialised and went to shows without a problem until he hit about 11 or 12 months. then he just changed. The only dog he would accept near him was the collie he'd been brought up with, and even then we used to watch him like a hawk! No amount of training or socialisation worked and so we just worked around it. It isn't that difficult once you accept that it won't change!

As for the collar, you wouldn't believe how a bull breed can slip out of one when they want to! That's why I use a half check on Dempsey, it's less likely to be pulled off. But with Dragon, I would say that a strong harness (ezy dog or something similar) together with his collar would be ideal.

DragonTheStaffie wrote:

Caryll wrote:

Billybunter wrote:With our breed you can do all the socalising you want with them they can still turn D/A its just something that clicks in some of them at certain age's and im not saying all will.

This is true.

Some will always be friendly, but some won't. They'll get to a certain age and then turn. If that happens there's very little you can do about it. You can limit the impact by making sure your dog's training is spot on & they'll listen to you, but they may never want to play with other dogs. It's just something you have to try and understand - it isn't the end of the world!

Yes that's very true you can't make your dog play with other dogs if he doesn't want to, but it could be the end of the world if you come across some stupid owners and their dog is off the lead and aggressive and somehow ends up hurting your dog very badly, would be the end of the world for me if Dragon got hurt yesterday or died somehow because of that other dog and his owners.

If the other dog is aggressive, then it doesn't matter how friendly your own dog is, does it? It will still attack him.

I guess I didn't think of that before I wrote that .
But yes that's true, would it be better if Dragon was muzzled? I mean I don't know if that dog yesterday was aggressive towards every dog, seemed to me he tried to bite Dragon because Dragon was growling and all sorts of things to him while I was pulling him away? Could that be what ''annoyed'' the other dog and made him trying to ''defend'' himself and attack? Because I've got a muzzle and was thinking of getting Dragon use to it, the problem is even on the muzzle he'll ran towards other dogs and growl through the muzzle and try to jump on them and what not, that could annoy the other dog and make the other dog attack him? Then he can't defend himself and will only get bitten and get hurt?

I would only muzzle a dog if it was aggressive towards humans. It's up to you, of course, but Dragon wouldn't be able to defend himself if another dog did attack him.

Yes that's what I thought, there's some stupid owners who let their aggressive dogs just wonder around and him being on the muzzle wouldn't be good if he ended up finding an aggressive dog, to me the muzzle was a waste of money.. Not to mention he hates it and tries to get it off and ends up hurting himself.

That is one thing about staffs is that most of them even not D/A will stand up and attack if they feel threatened

Hi Jo, In the wars again. Personally I would put a muzzle on Dragon when he is out for his walks and a harness as well as the collar and keep away from other dogs., it sounds pretty drastic since I know you hope he will become more sociable but if he has too many of these set too's (whether his fault or not) soon he will get the name of being a problem dog and you a problem by association because of your age, and it will escalate from there, maybe someone will get bitten and then the trouble will really start. Judging by the behaviour you have described in your posts its doubtful whether he will change into the dog friendly dog you wish him to be. Undoubtedly you love him and so want the best for him, and perhaps the best at the moment is keeping him on the lead when in public, and keeping him away from strange dogs or those he doesn't like.
I dont think you gave the muzzle a chance, if you had persevered he would have been used to it by now, why not have another go? Also when a dog is muzzled other owners usually understand and keep their dogs away. Not always the case but it helps.
Do you have an enclosed space in the park like a tennis court, where you could let Dragon off lead. This may be helpful in watching his reactions towards other dogs without him coming to harm.
I do feel for you and your girlfriend, we have the same problems with Solly, and I know what I have written may sound all too negative, but you have to keep Dragon safe.

Right OK, I will just see how it goes with the socializing then, he is only 3 months thankfully and we are taking him to a big park on Monday to meet other dogs, I hope he has good D/A for the future as I really want him to be animal friendly....

My old staf was not keen on other dogs but more in a submissive way though if they bugged her she warned them off without making a dent.

I think this breed prefers humans anyhow.

Panda wrote:Hi Jo, In the wars again. Personally I would put a muzzle on Dragon when he is out for his walks and a harness as well as the collar and keep away from other dogs., it sounds pretty drastic since I know you hope he will become more sociable but if he has too many of these set too's (whether his fault or not) soon he will get the name of being a problem dog and you a problem by association because of your age, and it will escalate from there, maybe someone will get bitten and then the trouble will really start. Judging by the behaviour you have described in your posts its doubtful whether he will change into the dog friendly dog you wish him to be. Undoubtedly you love him and so want the best for him, and perhaps the best at the moment is keeping him on the lead when in public, and keeping him away from strange dogs or those he doesn't like.
I dont think you gave the muzzle a chance, if you had persevered he would have been used to it by now, why not have another go? Also when a dog is muzzled other owners usually understand and keep their dogs away. Not always the case but it helps.
Do you have an enclosed space in the park like a tennis court, where you could let Dragon off lead. This may be helpful in watching his reactions towards other dogs without him coming to harm.
I do feel for you and your girlfriend, we have the same problems with Solly, and I know what I have written may sound all too negative, but you have to keep Dragon safe.

Dragon would never bite a person, he's always around little kids that play with him and he does get annoyed sometimes but he walks away as if to say ''I've had enough go away'' . But I do understand where you coming from, the only problem is... in my area there's no parks like that, most parks that have a fence etc is for little kids and it's no dogs allowed, so the only places we can take him is to where other dogs go, although we always find the quietest place where there's no dogs and let him off the lead so he can have a run and play fetch, if we see a dog we put him on the lead and warn the owners. Staffys need a lot of exercise and just walking him is not good? He wont be tired by the end of a walk.. We decided to take him for a walk on this path near a dog park late at night when it's darker since no one will be there at that time, at least he can have some freedom.

I also know this field near my girlfriends house where no dogs go, but the grass is very very long so it wouldn't be good to play fetch I lost about 5 balls there.

Hi Jo, in the heat of the moment when trying to separate two dogs fighting, a dog can bite its owner /or someone else who accidentally gets in the way. as I said its in the heat of the moment when in a few seconds all training goes out the window and animal instinct rules.
Have you tried exercising him alongside a bicycle on a lead? that would definately tire him out. Teaching him to search for things in the long grass would also be a good option.

Caryll wrote:

Billybunter wrote:With our breed you can do all the socalising you want with them they can still turn D/A its just something that clicks in some of them at certain age's and im not saying all will.

This is true.

Some will always be friendly, but some won't. They'll get to a certain age and then turn. If that happens there's very little you can do about it. You can limit the impact by making sure your dog's training is spot on & they'll listen to you, but they may never want to play with other dogs. It's just something you have to try and understand - it isn't the end of the world!

I agree, also like to add, that staffys prefer humans any way, so your all he needs I'd love to see Kenny just run and play, but i know it will never happen. He's so high energy. I've also seen him (on lead) apear all friendly, until the dog gets close enough, then the red light comes on. There's only one dog he's VERY tolerant of and thats his buddy Carlos, even then, I can see Kenny getting a little fed up,

Caryll wrote:That's the thing, some Staffords are just naturally DA - it's in their genes. Not all, obviously, but some, especially if they haven't had the greatest start to life.

Bandit was socialised and went to shows without a problem until he hit about 11 or 12 months. then he just changed. The only dog he would accept near him was the collie he'd been brought up with, and even then we used to watch him like a hawk! No amount of training or socialisation worked and so we just worked around it. It isn't that difficult once you accept that it won't change!

As for the collar, you wouldn't believe how a bull breed can slip out of one when they want to! That's why I use a half check on Dempsey, it's less likely to be pulled off. But with Dragon, I would say that a strong harness (ezy dog or something similar) together with his collar would be ideal.

Kenny has got out of a few. I'm now using Julius k9. It works for us and he hasnt got out of it yet. My hubby found it usefull when Kenny had the scuffle

Kenny's Harness

Glad you are all okay. Some owners are just stupid, poor Dragon