questions about ban laws (IN THE UK) and my dog

hello everybody
I'm attaching here a picture of my dog, this is Georgia , she's a mixed...something. we're not sure exactly what


my name is Adam, I'm not from the UK at all but planing on moving to the UK soon. after checking and mailing and talking to all authorities i was told simply not to even try bringing my dog as it sounds them like a banned type of dog. they did not agree to see a picture and give advice.

I don't want any trouble with the law or to do anything against the law, but naturally i don't want to leave my dog. i was very glad to find this forum as i see pictures of similar dogs, young ones, and i understand they are legal. so now I'm confused, and hopeful..
just by seeing this picture, would you say this is an illegal dog or could i bring her in with me?
do any of you know anything about the process of entering the UK with a dog? (coming in by airplane) will/should someone look at the dog, will they care for her look..? and any other information you could provide will help.. before I'm forced to cancel my moving plans...

thank you all!
-Adam

I wish I could be of some help. We do have band breeds here but quite what the criteria is for moving her I really do not no. Where are you traveling from?

I fear she would be classed as 'type' and worst case scenario seized at the airport, for investigation.

A lot will depend on her look, characteristics etc. Is she registered in your country ? If she's a mix it's gonna be tricky to say the least IMO.

I wish you well on ur move, maby someone can help here but I'm at a loss as to any advise

hi
I've contacted people at the Index of Exempted Dogs , and was told the banned breeds are:
Pit Bull Terrier
Japanese Tosa
Dogo Argentino
Fila Braziliero
or a dog who just looks like any of these.
so i was sure this was all lost and that i will not be able to come with her to the UK.

seeing this forum i was happy to see dogs, looking pretty similar to mine, living happy and young in the UK - so maybe i understood the law wrong (i sure hope)

i'm from israel, i'm 30 years old and the soon-to-be-wife and myself were going to move to the UK, but learning the banned dogs laws we're thinking of canceling the whole thing which isn't really nice :/

Jackie - thanks for answering.. seeing the picture of your dogs.. who are somewhat ..somehow.. similar to mine (in very general..) are they legal because you got them from an approved breeder , or are they simply not at all registered as one of the banned types?

Georgia can be registered here as mixed.. anything.. i know some nice vets - not in any way to break the law, simply that even now no one knows for sure exactly what she is so they can write one of any few options.. is there some specific type which might help?

I wonder if it would be possible to have her DNA tested? If you can prove that she is not of a banned breed, then I would think she would be allowed into the country.

Also keep talking to local authorities and any relevant charities that might be able to help plead your case. I'm not sure of the specifics of who, but hopefully someone here has better information.

thanks i'm looking hard for exactly this - who to talk too. now you gave me a good idea - to check about DNA . will do this first thing tommorow morning thanks


are most of the dogs here registered on IED or is it not needed? if not - any of you ever got out of the uk with your dog and then back in? if so were you checked at all when entering back? maybe i could learn something from this information

round of drinks to everybody if i end up getting there by the way (and bones for all the dogs)

Eris wrote:I wonder if it would be possible to have her DNA tested? If you can prove that she is not of a banned breed, then I would think she would be allowed into the country.

there no DNA test


the dog look pitbul "type" to me

Could you speak to your vet, and ask advice on breed type, then maybe get a certifacte stating breed. Sorry im unable to help

what breed are your dogs registered as? for those of you who are from uk ..
and yes i'll keep looking for how to get in touch with maybe border-control people to better understand the process..

your dog will be class as a pitbull type and wont be allow in the country in my opinion but you can get in touch with border control and see what happens (dont tell them anything about pitbulls) just say hes a staffy x you may get away with it but it's very unlikely

Moo isn't registered but on her insurance she is classed a staffordshire Bull Terrier.

A few travel freely with there dogs but thats using a pet passport which is only used within Europe (I think), so its very different to bring a dog here to live from where you are Xx

vmy nationality is french
what do you think of this idea:

if i get her into france and get an eu pet passport stating staffy X , then come with her from there, by some non air-port way

should that be easier?
as i understand traveling via airport takes a few hours of examining the dog even with a pet passport, is it the same if traveling by car/other way?

thanks again

sorry to nag really - tell me to shut up if you like and that's ok ! - i understand some dogs here aren't registered - isn't there a danger for you to be stopped on the street by some officer and then having to go to court and even risking them putting your dog down?
or is that simply the basic law but something that never actually happen

I wouldn't like to say yes or no tbh, certainly driving would be safer/easier but there still is a chance you may get questioned/stopped.

An EU passport still needs a vets in both countries the departing and arriving, so I think even that option is a no no.

And yes dogs can be seized here and pts but its more to do with behaviour. Its a crazy law and quite difficult to understand

yeah : / well thanks for everything to everybody
and good night
leaving you with a photo of Georgia playing in the water..

Good luck

Good luck. Let us know how you get on.
Also, thank you for sharing your pic's

Does this help
Travel with Pets/bringing dog from israel to uk, maybe via france

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Expert: jerry mishler - 5/20/2010

Question
Hey there, im a British citizen who lives in Israel, but want to move back to UK with my dog. I have spoken to quarantines etc in the area I want to live and yes i know they are expensive. But its not that its the fact that they can't walk the dogs for 6 months and that they are stuck in their kennels. To me this is cruelty and completely over the top. I wanted to know that if I find a contact in France that can look after my dog and we can do all the bloodtests etc needed to enter UK from there, do you think that would be ok. If so will it be around 6 months. Also do you think that when entering UK they could cause problems if I did it this way.
I have spoken to someone in PETS, DEFRA and she didn't really know. I will try again and hopefully get someone else but if you could help me that would be amazing.
Thank you so much
Charlie
Thank you so much Answer
You can indeed do all the in home type quarantine thru out the EU, even in USA should you find
someone. Visit: www.ipata.com for pet shippers in France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Belgium,
Netherlands, and all over. They often have contacts who will do this at home.
Google for: in home quarantine, in home boarding, etc etc within EU
Search for regular boarding kennels, etc in EU
Contact: www.animalsfirst.at Helmut Bogner for suggestions. They are in Vienna
Do you NOT know someone in Israel who can do this for you?
Regards, Jerry Mishler

thanks a lot! I'll read in this recommended site and see if there's any hope (my problem is a little different but still ..)

but also, i remember now I've started asking about this after seeing a post here from Mani about traveling across Europe with his dog which has an EU pet passport registered as staffy X and he had no problem entering back the UK so maybe ,Mani - if you see this, you could give your two cents as well? thanks:)

i dont know about the rules on this and you got a lovely lookin dog there, but damn get his claws clipped or take him on some good hard runs they're LONG

thanks to the last post by Kenny i think I've found someone to talk to ! at the airport.. will only email them tomorrow - gotta get to bed.. I'll update here if I'll have any interesting news -Good night

yeah the claws are strange with her - she runs on asphalt every day for long and it's still very long, we clip alot - and it's really the time again..

Also, try here http://www.defra.gov.uk/

I would tired carefully. I agree with Steve that she looks type and you might have a hard time. If I were you I would go by car they don't look in cars as much, and if they say she's not allowed you can turn around and go back. France to England will maybe be easier. Just make sure all her shots and vet work is up to date.

I agree by car would be easier, but if you get stopped you'll most likely not be able to come to England because she does look like a pit type.
But either way good luck.

nishma wrote:but also, i remember now I've started asking about this after seeing a post here from Mani about traveling across Europe with his dog which has an EU pet passport registered as staffy X and he had no problem entering back the UK so maybe ,Mani - if you see this, you could give your two cents as well? thanks:)

Have a look here - http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/travel/pets/pet-owners/
Unfortunately for you Israel is not a listed country. Best advice would be to travel to France perhaps (if the rules there are more relaxed about importing dogs from Israel), and then come to the UK from there. As you read in my post, nobody checked for the dog's 'type' or how big he was. They only checked vaccinations and that was it. Feel free to ask any questions.

Hi I hope everything goes ok with your move, maybe the EU pet passport is a good idea

well he's not in the EU so the EU passport is out of the question. How heavy is Georgia?

about 30Kg
i'm really not in the EU but wouldn't mind paying what ever it will cost to come via some other state.. get a passport there.. and then come over

i understand if i do get in, then chances for a cop to just stop me to see whatsup, when i'm walking her in the street or such, is very very low ?

(she's trained very well, wont jump on any one on the street or such things)

also- mani - can you tell a little bit about how it goes when you enter with a car? you pass via a "booth" while driving and just show your passport and the dog's papers and everything? or is it something more serious ?

i would class her as a staffie x american bull dog if you want to give a breed discription neither banned breed so may be something to think about but that being said still dont think you will get an easy run getting her in the country
but hopfully you will hit lucky

Hi Adam
It's a bit devious but could you bring her to Eire first, then up to the North and then over to England? Is this possible? Are the laws of entry different in Eire?
Mazel Tov

good idea! i'm looking into it now and trying to figure out about their laws - sorry for the dumb question: - if i drive from Eire all the way to england, will i not go throw any check points? like driving across other european states? ( i was once travelling in a bus, one minute i was in germany, the next.. well somewhere else dont remmber, but no check points no nothing along the way)

(and again you are all so nice - thanks everybody!)

Hi dont know if this helps but bringing a dog here from france is easy no one looks at your passport except the french vet at the port you will need a european pet passport there are a lot of staffy crosses in france,but i would talk to a french vet about that ,we take olly to france and stay for most of the summer and have never had a problem,by the way she looks beautiful.

Driving across Europe I've never come across any passport controls on the roads - all of a sudden there's a sign saying you're in a different country. The EU for all its sins has effectively eliminated inside borders and controls. The exception as usual is the UK (island mentality).

I went UK -> France -> Spain -> Portugal, and then back to the UK. The only controls I had were when boarding the UK/France ferry both ways. They never looked at the dog except to see if his face matched the EU passport photo, but since its the passport's owner who puts the photo there, it could have been any dog really!

As for Eire, have a look @ http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/coming_to_live_in_ireland/bringing_pets_to_ireland.html#ledc03
You could perhaps get a pet passport from a veterinarian in Eire?

hey thanks this is all very helpful ! my mother works with dogs and knows some world-wide-working vets, so i got her calling around now trying to find any european vet, best if in Eire, to go to for making the passport - in case we wont get to someone via a friend, i'll have my papers from here saying staffy X and aim for a nice vet over there (will do research..)

and then will come by car if from Eire or ferry if from french/belgium something like that..

if i'm driving from Eire and then crossing from around belfast on a ferry there - since it's within the UK i should get no check ups at all ?

and if i do enter the golden gates at the end with my dog as a staffy x, when walking her out, should i have a muzzle on and all the other dangerus laws things, or since she's considered staffy i'm good and can treat her normally? (of course still i'll never let her run free anywhere or any such things) - mostly i'm worrying that a policeman will stop me just walking down the street saying the dog looks dangerous to him and where are my papers .. has such a thing ever happned to any of you with your dogs?

Dogs don't have papers in the UK unless they are kennel club registered which won't apply to you. Mani is slightly smaller than Georgia and I've never had a cop ask me about his breed or even look suspiciously at him. There's the law, and there's the application of the law. In Portugal a dog like Mani has to be on a short lead and muzzled at all times, yet I had a cop come to us and play fetch (off-lead) with Mani! I think once you have your pet passport and your vaccinations you're good.

you gave us planty of hope, and a good plan to work out. operation Georgia is a-foot!

I was freaking out before my trip because I thought the French border control in Dover would stop us as the dog is too much "pit bull type", but they didn't care, likewise on way back. They did check comprehensively the vaccination info.

brilliant
maybe we'll chop off her legs at half height to make her seem shorter

May I just ask why you are thinking of coming to the UK ??

i know no one likes damn' foreigners :p but here goes :

number of reasons
1. Israel now days is a horibble place to live in, the government is passing ALOT of laws agains minorities and support a lot of curroption - plus finnancially taxes increase all the time, food prices as well , gas.. everything - i earn very well (i'm a graphic designer working for high paying clients) and even earning much above minimum i cannot save up for the future so both these reasons together makes israel well, no fun.

2. the uk - first of all i have EU passport which allows it, i have considered canada as well but it will take years to try getting approvals . we wanted a place where english is the langauge so we wont have to learn a new one, we love london - the atmosphere, the nice people (and you'de be surprised , the ones who you might think are rude or unplesent are sunshine, compareing to the ones in israel...)so we hope to work there, i've been doing a lot of research for the last few months and in my line of work if i will land any job it will pay enough - at minimum. and my wife will also being in a pay check so .. should be alright. - plus i will be able to keep working for israel while i'm there, via internet - but prefer to find something local after a while.

also we always had a thing, both my wife-to-be and i , for "brit culture" i guess, the bands and music and such.. - i know it's not all sunshine but i also know how to adjust well..

if it all fails we can always turn back..
but i'm hopeing for a permanent change.

You'll find that people like "the damn foreigners" in London, being that the active population (i.e. not retired) in London has more foreigners than Brits. Outside London, it varies, but you don't have to worry about that for now.

I moved to London back in 2006 without a job or any acquaintances. It's turned out really well for me and my wife. Getting a staffy has been part of my 'Britification'.

so i hear, Nina , my to be wife, is worried about finding work when she's not a local and might not speak 100% natively , but i told her as i heard - most chances are the person giving you the interview isn't local as well..

Also, this -

Whats with the country bashing no need to premote sights like that we all know we are on the edge

it's ok it's ok - i really tell you the edge is wayyy closer over here - some days i think it's behind me and i'm still running in the air like in the cartoons..

I think the chances of you getting stopped while walking your dog (when you already in the UK) is very low. I've seen many pit types around my area and from what I know they never get stopped. It might depend on where you go in the UK though, I mean London is a big city there for you might get stopped more often than where I live, but I think if you just say she's a Staffy x you'll be ok, hopefully.

Also from what I know London has more foreigners than actually English people , so that wouldn't be a problem, I'm also not English and when we moved to England we didn't talk much, we was still able to find jobs etc. So that shouldn't be a problem, your English seems very good so you should be able to find a job.

Anyway I wish you good luck.