somethings got to give.

where do I start, since my 'how's is all got so bad' post bullseye has got 1000times worse, and unfortunately after biting me twice today, its looking like I'm gonna have to give him up, we've been to vets and even training classes he even seen a behaviourist whilst I was away, to try and calm this behaviour nothings working, really am devastated but after 2 bad attacks what more can. Ido. Heartbroken but I see no other way round it, :/ does anyone think there an alternative fdr my boy, or is it best to give him up now.

You can't give him away that is just passing the problem on. You need to get a behaviourist in and work with them 100% you can't expect a behaviourist to be able to work magic esp if you are not even there for it. if you give to a shelter he will be put down.

You have to work with him, I am a little shocked you would even consider giving him up!

When you say 'biting'/ 'attacked' what exactly do you mean? I'm sure with a little help, with you being there to hear what is said then you can train him.

No good having someone work with him if you not there. Clearly your attitude has a bearing on his behaviour in the form of the energy you give off. This why one works WITH the behaviourist.

You need to give this 100% and it can only be achieved if you want it to be so. You need to be totally calm, set boundaries and be consistent. It does take hard work and a lot of patience.

please dont give up on him,i know it must be hard for you but as said you do need to work with the behaviourist.when you said you have had 2 bad attacks,what exactly happened and did some thing happen to set them off?

I think it's a bit unfair to say you're shocked that it's even being considered. If they're real attacks, it can be a traumatic experience. Hell, when Loki "attacks" me he's only playing, but it sometimes upsets me because it makes me feel like I'm not doing a good job with him. I can't imagine how it'd feel for an adult dog to attack you, but it'd be hard. Even so, if you don't want to give him away, don't give up yet. You can't expect a solution when you're not there. Is it just you he's bitten, or other people? If it's just you, you NEED to be the one to work with him with a behaviourist. Either way, he'll need consistency. Getting him out of this habit will be a process, not a quick solution.

I'm sorry to hear your problems have worsened.

It does take time and a lot of effort to sort though behavioural problems; if you can give no more then I hate to say it but you'd be better off having him PTS. It would be the most humane thing to do IMO if you can't/won't work with him.

Finding a rescue place for a HA bull breed would be near impossible - there are plenty with no problems that can't find places or homes and god knows where he'd end up/what would happen to him if you went down the private rehome route.

I'm a bit confused as to why you weren't there when the behaviourist was; who was and what was said?

I'm sorry to hear this.

As has been said though, its no good having the behaviourist in without you there to benefit from it. I understand that having you dog bite you is a traumatic experience, I would be devastated in your shoes, but you need to decide whether you can commit to sorting him out. As galadriel said, no rescue centre will take him in if he's human aggressive, and you certainly can't pass the problem on to someone else to deal with.

I'm sorry we can't be more positive for you

bullsmommy1 wrote:where do I start, since my 'how's is all got so bad' post bullseye has got 1000times worse, and unfortunately after biting me twice today, its looking like I'm gonna have to give him up, we've been to vets and even training classes he even seen a behaviourist whilst I was away, to try and calm this behaviour nothings working, really am devastated but after 2 bad attacks what more can. Ido. Heartbroken but I see no other way round it, :/ does anyone think there an alternative fdr my boy, or is it best to give him up now.

What exactly did he do today? You say he bit you - what led up to it, how did it happen & what did you (and he) do immediately afterwards?

There is absolutely no point in having a behaviourist with your dog & you're not there. A behaviourist should be working with you to spot unwanted behaviour & & then giving you ideas on how to combat it.

If you can't do this, and you can't give any more time to Bullseye, then you should have him pts as a rescue centre won't take him, and private rehoming a dog with behavioural problems is a no-go in my opinion.

I agree you need to be there when the behaviourist is working with him.

My chance is PA and he could never ever be rehomed from us now, but you need to think about what triggered the bites and how you reacted with it.

It sounds to me like you have had a rotten day and it's all got on top of you! We can say/think terrible things when we are feeling low

Tommorrow is another day and it's almost always never to late. Chin up!

I would also advice that you are there with the behaviourist so you can learn about spotting and correcting the issue.

Thanks for all responses, firstly absolutely nothing triggered it, both times today he's drew blood,(pierces skin) all I did first time was say out an he grabbed by hand, and second time I'd put his food down and he flipped. So no idea why as I was no threat to him, I didn't harm him or raise my voice I was doing daily things, secondly I couldn't be there as I was with family in a diff part of town, and I wasn't aware the person caring for him in my absence had got a behaviourist in, until afterwards,, I know no home will take him on, I meant I was privately thinking of rehoming or getting him pts, which breaks my heart but ive put my heart and soul into him since it started and I can't handle it no more, please don't think I'm giving up on him because I can't be bothered, I'm considering getting him pts because its getting me so down, and emotional, I'm too scared of my own dog and that's not how it should ever be, sorry for rambling on. But I can assure you I love him more than anything and have given him my all in the last 4 years!

Sorry but the only options you have is work with him yourself or PTS you cannot privately rehome him and pass the problem on, he could end up anywhere.

I'd personally keep working with him on a daily basis, chance has bitten me trying to get at someone else, PTS is not an option for me, so we have our own ways of dealing with, well everything.

For example when i put his food down he MUST sit and wait to be told he can eat it, if people come in the house he has to be lead to meet them on a very short lead and so on. It's all about managing and continually training them.

It is however down to you in the end

He wouldn't end up anywhere a member of family was going to take him on and work with him', I don't know yet too much to decide

I wouldn't rehome if it were me as up routing him could cause his behaviour to get alot worse, i'd work with him if it were me.

Why was the person caring for him calling a behavourist? I just don't get it, sorry that just doesn't make sense. He is your dog, and has been for 4 years, what has happened as they do not just turn??

I agree that something has happened dogs just don't turn. Has a vet ruled out pain?

You say you were not doing anything to trigger the behaviour, well you were. You asked him to get out, of what i assume he believes is HIS house and not yours - why on earth should he get out of his own house? Clearly there is a dominance issue there. Secondly, the food thing again is possession. You need to make him wait and wait. Have him sittign and waiting and if he moves at all when you go to bend down, you need to stand right back up and say wait. this could take hours.

if you really can't cope then he must be PTS cause it isn't fair to uproot him onto somewhere else as this won't help him in anyway.

Also, how much exercising does he get?

I wasn't telling him to get out, I did what I've done for 4 years without problem. Open back door in morning and say out ya go, (to go toilet) he has always gone straight out doneh is business and comes back in, but he just flipped today, as for food again, for years he's been no problem, sits waits and eats but today he again, flipped, he's had vet checks, he's fine they done scans and everything, he gets 2 hours a day of walks, and 3 30 min sessions of fetch in the garden, and again NO I am not giving up, iv put up with this formonths now. Does he have to do serious damage before you realise why I'm saying enoughs enough?! They phoned behaviourist I can only assume because I was talking of doing it when I was back, and because they were trying to help.

im with the others on this one a dog dont just turn after 4 years either something has changed with health has a vet check been done
or there been a problem there all the time that has not been checked and he been pushing pushing and pushing untill you have gettin to this point ?????
rule 1 never be afraid of your dog they will pick up on it
rule 2 know the signs a dog will not attack from noware
rule 3 you are the boss and the dog should know it through training

there no way you can pass this problem on to another person this needs to be sorted by yourself and quickly or the dog will be so messed up there will be no alternative to PTS

People are only trying to help.

I've got the scars and recent bite marks from Chance to know what your going through BUT i know why he is the way he is.

After 4 years a dog doesn't just turn on you there must be some reason your over looking

Again, he has had atleast 4 checkups in 3 months, he's had various scans, and vets CAN'T find anything wrong, if I knew why hed changed I wouldn't be writing on here I'd be fizing it. I appreciate your all trying to help I do, but believe me, I have the scarres to, broken fingers, ripped muscle, damaged toes, you name it. What I'm saying though is nothings changed in his routine etc, I've not done anything so YES he has turned for nothing because he was fine one day, flipped the next and he's been like it for months now. I love him I do but I aint willing to put my family at risk of him,
I shouldn't be scared? No I shouldn't that's the point but when I can be drinking a cuppa or reading a paper and he'll flip out what am I supposed to do? I can't lock him away, and I can't not go near him. So I bear it,,,

bullsmommy1 wrote:Again, he has had atleast 4 checkups in 3 months, he's had various scans, and vets CAN'T find anything wrong, if I knew why hed changed I wouldn't be writing on here I'd be fizing it. I appreciate your all trying to help I do, but believe me, I have the scarres to, broken fingers, ripped muscle, damaged toes, you name it. What I'm saying though is nothings changed in his routine etc, I've not done anything so YES he has turned for nothing because he was fine one day, flipped the next and he's been like it for months now. I love him I do but I aint willing to put my family at risk of him,
I shouldn't be scared? No I shouldn't that's the point but when I can be drinking a cuppa or reading a paper and he'll flip out what am I supposed to do? I can't lock him away, and I can't not go near him. So I bear it,,,

he cant have changed for nothing something must have changed and you need to find out what
you should have not put up with this for months you should have been finding out the problem
there no point bearing it its giving the message he doing nothing wrong you need to take charge after 4 years you must have marstered the NO tone and be able top stop him in his tracks if not there your problem he dont respect your authority

I'm sorry but dogs do not attack people for no reason, even if it was the tiniest trigger there has to be one whether you no what it is or not.

I'd go back to basics with everything, and perhaps muzzle him whilst you do it

Im sorry if im coming across as all critical but just becouse a vet says they cant find anything wrongin tests and scans dont mean there right
infact it shows there dont know everything he your dog and you know he changed so vets are no good to you .the problem needs to be found by yourself

What tests has the vet done? Have they done a full thyroid panel?

What do you mean he just flips out? What's his body language before, after and during? How do you stop him when he's biting you?

bullsmommy1 wrote:I wasn't telling him to get out, I did what I've done for 4 years without problem. Open back door in morning and say out ya go,

This is telling him to go out.

You need a behaviourist back. He may have a brain tumor or something unbalanced in his head which a behaviourist can advise more on if they don't find a behavioural problem.

Get a behaviourist back in. I know you had one in while you were away, but that's pointless becaue the behaviourist needs to work with YOU, advise you on picking up on his body language, stopping it before he bites, and can tell you what you may be doing wrong or how to show him that you're the one in control.

Seriously, I can't even imagine how horrible it is to have a dog you love hurt you so much, and I know you love him, so don't put him to sleep until you've brough back the behaviourist at least. I honestly think that, if anything can help you, that will, but only if you're there to work with them.

This is a weird one, a dog after 4 years just turns.
If in them 4 years he was always abit pushy or wanted his own way, i could understand him now flipping as the signs were there but were either ignored or not picked up on.
But if he was loving and well behaviored for the 4 years then its strange his turned now, and its understandable ppl are asking and suggesting something has to of happened, or the vet in all his checks has not detected an underlining problem or hormonal imbalance in his brain.

Ppl are right thou, this problem can not be past off to someone else by rehoming him and having him PTS really is the kindest thing to do.
But before you do decide its a one way trip to the vets, try just one last time with him. 4 years old is still young and his capable of still learning a new routine.
He needs to learn his place in your family, and screaming at him or telling him off is not the way to do it.
Your actions speak louder than words, and actions he understands, words he dont.
If his allowed on the furniture, thats put a stop to if need be put a stair gate across the front room door to stop him.
If you havent got a cage get one and thats his new sleeping/time out place where he wont be bothered by the kids.
Meal times he must sit and wait till his bowls lowered and told to eat. When going out the front door for a walk you lead and he follows out the door.
When out bond with your dog, as it sounds like the bond to me has been broken.
Another thing check his diet, are their to many additives in it, as we all know too much additives given to kids make them hypo etc, and its no different in dogs.

Its a sad problem and one that might not have a happy ending.

ella wrote:I wouldn't rehome if it were me as up routing him could cause his behaviour to get alot worse, i'd work with him if it were me.

I agree with this, and also what Denise has said. I would also, if you can afford it, get the behaviourist to work with you & Bullseye to iron out whatever has gone wrong.

P.S. I wonder if the vet has checked for epilepsy?

It would be helpful to know what his thyroid results were. The vet should be able to give you the values. Being within "normal values" is not, it seems an absolute guarantee of normal behaviour.

It would also be helpful to know if he has had his adrenal function tested - again, the vet should be able to tell you.

What is his fasted glucose level (blood sugar)?

Has he ever fitted?

Does he display any symptoms of pain - reluctance to walk, to climb onto furniture, to go up stairs, to jump into the back of a car, etc?

Is he currently on any medication?

Has he been neutered? If not, were his sex hormone levels evaluated?

It's perhaps difficult to comment objectively without all of this information.

I have the paper with all results on somewhere I'll have to dig it out. :-) but thanks to all anyway.

U say the person who was looking after him called a behaviourist. Why? Do you think this is linked at all to his behavioural changes? How long was he there, did they stick to his usual routine? Could there have been an incident which induced this dominance and confusion?

Also like to add I agree with Denise, if you have no other choice I would have him pts. Sad but if something happened and he injured somebody else badly you would never forgive yourself.

No, I only got back a week ago, they had him for 2weeks, he was bad LONG before this, its ever since he was attacked 3 times in 2days he got very aggressive, but hed calmed down a lot and now has gone worse than before, I don't think there was an incident, if there was I'm not aware of it.
I know the best thing to do is to get him pts, that doesn't mean I want to do it though, I love him a lot.

How are things between bulley and your other dog major?

I can tell you are dejected from your posts, so i can somewhat guess where it will lead. Let us know what happens.

Yeah all good between the 2 dogs, its just other dogs he's aggressive with and people. Vets at weekend so will see if he thinks its to be a 1 way trip. :'(

Good luck. I really hope (as weird as this is!) there is something medically wrong that can explain this.

bullsmommy1 wrote:No, I only got back a week ago, they had him for 2weeks, he was bad LONG before this, its ever since he was attacked 3 times in 2days he got very aggressive, but hed calmed down a lot and now has gone worse than before, I don't think there was an incident, if there was I'm not aware of it.
I know the best thing to do is to get him pts, that doesn't mean I want to do it though, I love him a lot.

im thinking its all steming back to this all my be seeming to be getting worse again becouse of warmer weather more dogs around being walked running around .
i truelly feel with back to basic training for him and yourself you can pull this round
by re training yourself i mean learn to spot the signs of when he going to attack and learn not to put yourself in line of attack.

I still think working with a behaviourist would be the best chance of getting him back to normal again.

ANattyRat wrote:I still think working with a behaviourist would be the best chance of getting him back to normal again.

mmmmm im a bit yes and no on that behaviorist have there place and use but at the end of the day its down to the owner to keep things on track the work that needs to be done is 20%behaviourist and 80% owner

I did the back to basics when he first got like this, he improved then got worse n worse, I'm gonna get a brain scan, and some more test and hope they can find something wrong, might take him in sooner as he hasn't eaten in 3days! :/ well except 1 piece of toast.

bullsmommy1 wrote: he hasn't eaten in 3days! :/ well except 1 piece of toast.

Well, that's not right, for a start! There has to be an underlying reason why this is happening. Let's hope that the scan will shed some light on things.

I know, I'll do all I can. :-)

>< for you
You just dont know about his early life if hes a rescue, so hope you have some closure that you tried to help him and give him a good home whatever happens.

A healthy dog will not starve, so there is something very wrong. I hope it will be caught in time. It could be teeth maybe?

Hayley wrote:A healthy dog will not starve, so there is something very wrong. I hope it will be caught in time. It could be teeth maybe?

your spot on hayley. it was a cracked tooth, i checked his teeth but i must of missed it feeling very bad now, he has pain relief though and the vet said it doesnt need to come out.

So, does the vet think that's what's caused the escalation in bad behaviour?

If it's hurting him, though, surely the pain relief will only be temporary? Once he stops taking the meds, he'll be back in discomfort, won't he?