Vent needed...

Yeah so it's 2:30am and I'm up to walk Troy at 5:15am before work. He decided to take a * on my bedroom floor at about 1:00am so had to clear that up and take him outside. I'm not able to get any sleep now as he is snoring his head off next to my bed.

I don't know why he did this, might of been too many treats before bed. He gets fed at 7pm and goes out before bed about 9pm and not had this before. It was kinda runny so may of been something he ate.

He has been a complete pain in the * the last couple of days also. Pulling on the lead, not listening and whining. I can't even have a relaxing seat on a park bench because he is always in an over excited state. Looks at every thing that moves, wants to go and investigate everything including people on bikes, people just having a picnic on a bench, people walking their dogs, just everything basically.

He can't just relax and sit / lay in one place, he gets agitated and tries to walk and whines.

All this business about being calm, relaxed and assertive obviously has some merit, but it doesn't matter with this dog. I was relaxed, happy, chilling on the park bench while he went nuts!

No amount of correction helps, no touch, no sound, no tugging on the leash. People make it sound so easy as if it is all my fault, I must not be calm enough, not sending positive energy, must be tension in the lead etc etc. No, this dog doesn't care, I don't even think he understands why I turn him and walk the other way when he pulls or why I tug him sideways, why I say Shh or touch him to correct, he just doesn't give a damn and gets more excited! I've tried silence and doing nothing and it didn't work.

Dunno what I'm going to do until 5:15am when my alarm goes off but it certainly isn't sleep and will have a cranky day all day now.

Tried to do a good thing rescuing a dog but Troy is turning out to be a problem dog!! Rant over.

troy not a problem dog he just needs loads of work he will be great in a matter of months if the training put in

I think you are a bit over the top to be honest (sorry if that sounds harsh) Troy is a normal excitable staffy - it's in their personality to be hyper. and yeah for some of them it can take a lot of work to get it under control.
especially taking on a rescue its going to be harder than having your own pup from the start.

keep at it Gee, he needs you to stay strong so he can learn to be a good boy!

as for the poo... I'd say its something he ate.

He most likely just ate something that didn't agree with him. It also sounds like normal Staffy behaviour to me. They are very high energy dogs and rescues can take some time to settle in and learn.

How much exercise is he getting? Have you tried rewarding good behaviour with treats or keeping his attention with a favorite toy? I think most handlers experience your feelings I know we did with Suki

I can tell you that it does get better. Frosty is already doing fantastic, but I am working hard with Piglette. It is worth it but sometimes it is a few steps forward, then a few back and a few more forward. Keep at it. Soon it will be a distant memory and your will be so glad you did the work.

keep at it gee what you did by rescuing troy was a brilliant thing to do,they are like kids some days good some not so,kinda like 2 steps foreward and 1 step back,i know it must be so disheartining for you but dont give up,you will get there,as for the mess does sound like he ate some thing that did'nt agree with him,sending big hugs to you both ><

Maybe I did over react, sleep deprivation can do crazy things to you

Look at the below video, this is what happens if I take a seat in the local park. I'd hate to suggest this is normal Staffy behavior:

https://s871.photobucket.com/albums/ab271/SickleFoot/Troy%20-%20The%20Staffie/?action=view&current=IMG_2186.mp4

He gets a 45 min walk in the morning, a walk midday by my brother while I am at work, 1hr on my return and a brief walk before bed.

I have played ball with Troy for 2 hours straight and he still acted the same as soon as the leash was applied.

I do reward him, don't get me wrong. But this causes problems itself sometimes. If I softly say 'good boy' for walking nicely, he then gets excited and pulls.

Thanks for the support and comments anyway, I'll keep at it. Other things a part from Troy have got to me over the past few days (falling out with the Mrs ) guess getting up at 1:00am to clear poop got to me, then not getting any sleep because of him snoring and getting up at 5:15am!

At work now and feel drained.

Sorry you having problems. All I can say is hang in there, breathe and remain patient - it does get better.

Just watched your video, that is such a weird noise he's making, I think it's normal going by other peoples comments about what their dogs do but I never even hear Mia bark let alone make that sort of racket!

I think he's just being a normal staffy to be honest, they're not really ones for sitting still when they are outside I think they like to make the most of it.

Oh and they never care when u tell them off or correct them Mia's tail actually wags when she is being told "no" she just can't help herself!

Troy may be one of the more 'spirited' staffys, true!
hang in there and as you do, vent on here if your having a rough time

one day you'll look back and think "thank **** he's not like that anymore!"

have you tried a head halti that will stop the pulling, cant hear the noise he is making cause I am at work, also you should maybe try feeding him earlier than 7pm if you can

things will get better hang on in there and get lots of sleep at the weekend, being tired is a nightmare

when rescue dogs start to feel at home and settle they start to push the boundaries so you need to be firm with him also when your out he is getting more comfortable with you and his surroundings and wants to explore them its all just a sign that he is comfortable with you. its all down to the constant training to get him to behave. its tiring but it is rewarding. the lack of sleep right now is making you cranky and has made you wonder what the f@"*k have a i done. you have done a good thing and just need to go to sleep for a while when you get home and things won't seem as bad after a good nights kip. coinsistency in training is the key. take some treats the smellier the better so the smell will get his attention and hold the treat near your face and tell him either SEE or WATCH or something along those lines then when he does look at you drop the treat into his mouth. this will teach him to look at you when you tell him. like all training it takes time and you have to be consistent but you will get there. as for the crap in the house. like you say he may have ate something funny and got belly ache poor love.

See I've never allowed any of mine to sleep in the same room as us .. I like my sleep too much for that .. tho plenty do.

He looks in an over excited state to me

What are you feeding him again ?

and when he's walked, is he doing any hi energy excercise ?

Lynn,

I can't feed him earlier unless I only feed him once a day.

I feed him at 6:45am and then after the afternoon walk at 7:00pm, as I get home at 4:45pm and get back with him at 6:00pm and wait a hour to feed him as recommended due to bloat.

Whats the reason for having to feed him earlier?

I don't really want to have to resort to a device for him to behave. He doesn't always constantly pull, only when excited. He does more of 'dashing'. Where he will walk okay then just trying running :\

Julie,

Lack of sleep definitely got me cranky, sorry. I keep forgetting to take treats with me. I'll try and be more consistent. Thing is though, he knows the 'look' command. Once I treat him he goes immediately back to pulling and whining and I mean immediately.

What has been said about him becoming more comfortable makes sense, better make sure he steps back in line!

Andy,

I only let him sleep in my room because I work full time and it was suggested to let him sleep in my room to help the bonding process and because I am away most of the day throughout the week.

I'd be interested to hear if others who work full time let or don't let their dogs sleep in their room.

I am going to gradually try moving his crate further away from my bed.

Oh and he is on James Wellbeloved. He doesn't get high energy activity on a morning, it's too dark on the field to play ball and I think he needs a balance of playing ball on a field and actually exploring and getting walked on the streets etc to get him more accustomed to traffic and people on bikes etc, but the afternoon walk I do. It involves 30 min - 1hr of playing ball. I make him wait, walk 50ft away and then through the ball and try and beat him to it. Obviously I don't but it make him sprint even faster towards it.

Ps. The video link is an example of the state he will get into if I let him. This was in my garden where my neighbors cats are. But yesterday in the park he was trying to constantly pull and start walking and moaning / whining towards people, bikes etc.

Gee wrote:Lynn,

Thing is though, he knows the 'look' command. Once I treat him he goes immediately back to pulling and whining and I mean immediately.

this sounds like my Lemmy. we got him at 8 weeks so he knows better but he will sit when told and as soon as he has the treat he stands up the little bugger. when you are at home or in the house take the oportunity for 5 or 10 minutes to just run through some basic trianing stuff. the one thing we do as well is to put the lead on and either walk them round the garden or round the house so they know that just because you get the lead on doesnt mean you are going out and they are actualy starting to calm down a bit so you can get the lead on and get out the house without being jumped at or accosted (i have less bruises on my legs these days with less jumping ) Lottie is our rescue. she pushes the boundaries sometimes because she is so relaxed and knows she's home and not going to get a beating any time soon. she needs a firmer stance by us but is doing well. you will get there like we say it just takes time. when you come in from work you are probably met by the excited jumps and whines and barks which you need to ignore. start by making the dog sit or come to heel or just ignore and wait for the relaxed look then make a fuss or treat but don't make a fuss of the excited behaviour. when out for a walk go to the field and have 5 or 10 minutes of play then go for a walk and let the dog sniff at the ground or bushes or what ever but if the pulling starts say STOP and stand still. if the pulling is still going on when your still then turn round and walk in the other direction. the dog will learn that he isnt getting any where fast if he continues to pull. we noticed as well that a collar is better than the harness for our 2 because theres less pulling with a collar on. then finish you walk with more play on the way home.

Hmmm ... not sure what too sugest TBH, you seem to be doing everything you can really .. he certainly looks well, and I love his build and shape from what I can see in the pics etc.

I think if it were me (and Max has always been a VERY high energy boy) I'd try to find something else to try and tire him out, cus it sounds like he has a reserve of energy that isnt being used with his current playtime to me

With the warmer weather almost here, do you live near to any hill's for example, that you could run him up and down ? that is what we used to do before Max took to the pulling ... I would walk to the top of a grassy hill, and my wife would be at the bottom, and he would run up and down between us both .. just an idea ?

Well the video got Suki all excited I don't know if it's normal or not but Suki does something similar when she really wants something or inside the house when she has built up energy.

We counter this by putting a treat in our closed fist and letting her sniff it. She will focus on that and follow until we are away from what will distract her. It helps if you recognize the distraction before they do but it works for us even when she has focused on something. It gets better with time so hang in there

If he is over 18 months you could also try backpacking. It has worked wonders for us with Suki the last few weeks

just watched the video and noticed you have a collar on anyway. this sounds like Lemmy pulling and whining to go say hello to anyone who passes. i bet you get this when someone comes to the door or just walks in as well. when he gets like this i pull him back on a shorter lead and walk in the oposite direction away from them this way he learns that he isnt getting near anyone if he carries on like that and that the behaviour is not acceptable. we can all make it sound easy but it isnt sometimes and it takes time and patience so even though you are burning red from embaressment at times you still need to be consistent.

have you tried the sush or quiet training. when your sat at home in a normal calm environment and running through some basics make him sit in front of you and tell him to SPEAK (make barking noises to show him) when he does speak give a treat. when you have successfully taught him to speak when asked you then move onto the shush or quiet or what ever word you want to use. get the dog to bark or wait till he barking anyway and say QUIET or the word you chose and see what he does. if he is quiet for a couple of seconds then treat. if he doesnt listen and consitently barks touch him to get his attention and again a couple seconds of quiet after the command and treat. it will sink in our 2 have that down pat now. everyone has days and moments where the dog gets selective hearing so dont think every dog is perfect and yours isnt. my 2 can be the biggest ignorant pigs on the planet at times but we just carry on cos all the training sinks in but it is an ongoing thing all the time. don't get too diheartened and give in cos the good days will out way the bad days. |lemmy has reduced me to tears before today but one day it just clicked and he is a lot better and Lottie is getting there so dont give up hope

jstaff wrote:If he is over 18 months you could also try backpacking. It has worked wonders for us with Suki the last few weeks

we have a back pack and i was thinking of using it for Lottie (its too big for lemmy he stepped out of it ) how much weights do you put in it. we are going to use it to take her training when pete cant take us in the car so i thought her water bottle balls and treats would be enough for that but on a nornal walk how much weight would you use. i have heard it is great becasue the dog gets a good work out carrying the weighted bag and the walk is better becasue of it

when you are at home or in the house take the opportunity for 5 or 10 minutes to just run through some basic training stuff. the one thing we do as well is to put the lead on and either walk them round the garden or round the house so they know that just because you get the lead on doesn't mean you are going out and they are actually starting to calm down a bit so you can get the lead on and get out the house without being jumped at or accosted

I do some training with him everyday. He is actually very smart and picks things up immediately so he has got it in him. The lead suggestion in the house is a very good idea, I'll have to give this a try.

when you come in from work you are probably met by the excited jumps and whines and barks which you need to ignore. start by making the dog sit or come to heel or just ignore and wait for the relaxed look then make a fuss or treat but don't make a fuss of the excited behavior.

He does get excited but isn't vocal about it. The first thing he does is go and grab his Kong and bring it to me as if he wants to play. He had wet himself a couple of times on my return from work which I have looked into. I believe it is a submissive thing. So I am trying to work on more praise and building his confidence. It is good that it supposedly means he see's me as his leader / master though i guess.

when out for a walk go to the field and have 5 or 10 minutes of play then go for a walk and let the dog sniff at the ground or bushes or what ever but if the pulling starts say STOP and stand still. If the pulling is still going on when your still then turn round and walk in the other direction. The dog will learn that he isn't getting any where fast if he continues to pull. we noticed as well that a collar is better than the harness for our 2 because there's less pulling with a collar on. Then finish you walk with more play on the way home.

When he pulls I give him a tug to the side so send him slightly off balance. If he does carry on I do stop and turn and walk the other way. Strangely when we change direction he walks nicely by my side, but if I turn back around to go in the direction we were going originally. Am I doing something wrong?

Andy wrote:Hmmm ... not sure what too suggest TBH, you seem to be doing everything you can really .. he certainly looks well, and I love his build and shape from what I can see in the pics etc.

I think if it were me (and Max has always been a VERY high energy boy) I'd try to find something else to try and tire him out, cus it sounds like he has a reserve of energy that isnt being used with his current playtime to me

With the warmer weather almost here, do you live near to any hill's for example, that you could run him up and down ? that is what we used to do before Max took to the pulling ... I would walk to the top of a grassy hill, and my wife would be at the bottom, and he would run up and down between us both .. just an idea ?

Nothing like that around me unfortunately. Well actually possibly somewhere I could potentially drive, I'll look into it.

jstaff wrote:Well the video got Suki all excited I don't know if it's normal or not but Suki does something similar when she really wants something or inside the house when she has built up energy.

We counter this by putting a treat in our closed fist and letting her sniff it. She will focus on that and follow until we are away from what will distract her. It helps if you recognize the distraction before they do but it works for us even when she has focused on something. It gets better with time so hang in there

He knows the look command and I have tried this tactic before. I just forget most of the time to take treats with me.

jstaff wrote:If he is over 18 months you could also try backpacking. It has worked wonders for us with Suki the last few weeks

He is 16 months. If this where you put a pack on them and load it with weight?

_julie_ wrote:just watched the video and noticed you have a collar on anyway. this sounds like Lemmy pulling and whining to go say hello to anyone who passes. i bet you get this when someone comes to the door or just walks in as well. when he gets like this i pull him back on a shorter lead and walk in the opposite direction away from them this way he learns that he isn't getting near anyone if he carries on like that and that the behavior is not acceptable. we can all make it sound easy but it isn't sometimes and it takes time and patience so even though you are burning red from embarrassment at times you still need to be consistent.

Yup, he does this towards people, dogs, cat, a can of lager stood upright on the pavement..anything he thinks could be alive LOL

have you tried the sush or quiet training. when your sat at home in a normal calm environment and running through some basics make him sit in front of you and tell him to SPEAK (make barking noises to show him) when he does speak give a treat. when you have successfully taught him to speak when asked you then move onto the shush or quiet or what ever word you want to use. get the dog to bark or wait till he barking anyway and say QUIET or the word you chose and see what he does. if he is quiet for a couple of seconds then treat. if he doesnt listen and consitently barks touch him to get his attention and again a couple seconds of quiet after the command and treat. it will sink in our 2 have that down pat now. everyone has days and moments where the dog gets selective hearing so dont think every dog is perfect and yours isnt. my 2 can be the biggest ignorant pigs on the planet at times but we just carry on cos all the training sinks in but it is an ongoing thing all the time. don't get too diheartened and give in cos the good days will out way the bad days. |lemmy has reduced me to tears before today but one day it just clicked and he is a lot better and Lottie is getting there so dont give up hope

Interesting. Not tried this no. He is very vocal in regards to moaning and whining but I think in 6 weeks I have only ever heard him bark twice.

we were told about building confidence with Lottie. how big is your garden. we have a jump. play in the garden for a bit a few times a week or maybe just the weekends. the lighter nights coming in are great. put the jump up and teach him to jump over it and clap and make a great big fuss when he does he will think this is great plkus the training init as well. put in the sit position at one side a few feet away from the jump. you stand at the other side of the jump with a treat and when he gets to the jump say over or something and when he does give the treat claps praise everything. weeving in and out as well. we got some cnes that kids use for football. they were a couple of quid for 2 and i bought 4 and get them to weave in and out. this is done with a treat in your hand and make them follow it then give the treat and priase and claps at the end. anything you can think of to keep him occupied but that he hasnt done before that will be a little bit of a challenge or something you think he will be good at will boost his confidence and he will be pleased with himself when you praise so much. confidence building is better done with anything that is part of the basic training routine. you will be surprised too because they think their playing but they are learning cos it encourages them to listen to you more while your at it

It's best to wait until 18 months but the pack has really helped with Suki and she is much better behaved with it on. I haven't used more than about 2kg yet but the highest recommended weight is 30% of their bodyweight and this has to be slowly built up over time.

I'm a cautious person by nature so I won't ever go more than 10-15% of her body weight to make sure I don't cause an injury. Suki has a ton of energy as well and will literally howl if she isn't given enough exercise and this really has helped out alot. It's almost like a different dog. She will still pull for the first 5 minutes or so but settles in quickly. I think it would be okay with just a pack at 16 months to get him used to it.

Here is a post I made a little while ago with pics of her and her pack

https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/t15986-today-s-hike-pic-heavy

It might also help if you make a dog walking kit or bag. We put a clicker, treats, squirt bottle, squeaky toy, poop bags and everything else we need fully stocked so we don't ever forget anything

_julie_ wrote:we were told about building confidence with Lottie. how big is your garden. we have a jump. play in the garden for a bit a few times a week or maybe just the weekends. the lighter nights coming in are great. put the jump up and teach him to jump over it and clap and make a great big fuss when he does he will think this is great plkus the training init as well. put in the sit position at one side a few feet away from the jump. you stand at the other side of the jump with a treat and when he gets to the jump say over or something and when he does give the treat claps praise everything. weeving in and out as well. we got some cnes that kids use for football. they were a couple of quid for 2 and i bought 4 and get them to weave in and out. this is done with a treat in your hand and make them follow it then give the treat and priase and claps at the end. anything you can think of to keep him occupied but that he hasnt done before that will be a little bit of a challenge or something you think he will be good at will boost his confidence and he will be pleased with himself when you praise so much. confidence building is better done with anything that is part of the basic training routine. you will be surprised too because they think their playing but they are learning cos it encourages them to listen to you more while your at it

Lots of good idea's there thanks.

My garden is not very big unfortunately but that is not the main issue, the problem is that it is not fenced off. As soon as we go into the garden he goes nuts as there is usually 2 cats out there.

jstaff wrote:It's best to wait until 18 months but the pack has really helped with Suki and she is much better behaved with it on. I haven't used more than about 2kg yet but the highest recommended weight is 30% of their bodyweight and this has to be slowly built up over time.

I'm a cautious person by nature so I won't ever go more than 10-15% of her body weight to make sure I don't cause an injury. Suki has a ton of energy as well and will literally howl if she isn't given enough exercise and this really has helped out alot. It's almost like a different dog. She will still pull for the first 5 minutes or so but settles in quickly. I think it would be okay with just a pack at 16 months to get him used to it.

Here is a post I made a little while ago with pics of her and her pack

https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/t15986-today-s-hike-pic-heavy

It might also help if you make a dog walking kit or bag. We put a clicker, treats, squirt bottle, squeaky toy, poop bags and everything else we need fully stocked so we don't ever forget anything

Cool, I'll look into the pack. Will 2 month really matter that much or is it something to do with their bones or something as to why you should use it?

I do have a dog walking kit, has his ball, long lead, poop scoop and bags in there. Guess I'll just have to add treats

I don't always take the bag though, because I know if he he has pooped previously for example he won't on the next walk depending on the time interval between.

is 2kg a bag of sugar cos we have an old wiehgt bench in th garage with the weights and the 2 smallest ones are 1kg each so one on each side should do it then. like you though i think i'd be cautious and never put too much in but i love the back packs for letting the dog carry its own stuff round thats what i got it for

Just watched the video. That is so normal for an over excited staff! Bandit used to make that noise when he wanted to go out & we were too slow (so he thought) with getting his lead on!

Have you thought about massage? He really looks like he's living on nerves at the moment. Get him to sit & then gently but firmly massage the back of his neck, his shoulders & the muscles along his spine. Do this for about 3 or 4 minutes. It could help him unwind, but will also strengthen the bond/connection between you.

Also, I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but Lavender Essential Oil can help with an uptight dog. Rub a couple of small drops on the top of his head & the front of his chest, and add a couple of small drops to his bedding just before he settles down at night.

I think he is very nervous at times when on walks. Because I don't think his last owner ever walked him, everything is new to him. All the traffic whizzing up and down, bikes flying past him, mopeds etc.

He is not uptight when playing on a secluded field or indoors, so how can I help him relax when we are out?

Let him decide what is is comfortable with and don't force an issue. They can be nervous around cars, trains, people and animals. Go slow and he will adapt in time

You might want to try a harness for ALL walks. If he is a puller he can seriously harm his neck also he will be more secure in a harness. If you think you can't controll him right in a harness use one but with a loose lead that is longer than your harness lead so you can get controll of his head should you need to.

Yeah, I just carry on with the walk as normal, loose leash, relaxed etc. I just notice he licks his snout sometimes and starts to walk faster when cars whizz by or pull if someone goes past on a bike.

I guess he will get used to it all in time.

In regards to the harness, that's why I stopped using it. He doesn't like putting it on and it's hard to control him as it fastens at the back. It is easier to control him with a collar.

We often use a harness and a collar. If we are off in the open than we use the harness. If we are nearing an area where we need head control we switch to the collar.

Hmmmm. Could do that I guess.

He hates putting his heard through the harness though. Any tips a part from putting it on differently?

Look at the below video, this is what happens if I take a seat in the local park. I'd hate to suggest this is normal Staffy behavior:

Perhaps Staffies are not the breed for you? As i've said before it will take a lot of time for him to settle. The behaviour he is exhibiting is the sort of way my dog used to behave when he was 6-12 months old, he's really not socialized or used to anything. It will take time
My dog will still sometimes pull when hes very excited and he goes compeltely bonko in the vets and I consider him well trained.
If I remember rightly the last dog you had was when you were a lot younger and was a mongrel. I'm assuming your parents trained him? (Please correct me if i'm wrong)
Dog training is hard It will take more then a couple of months to make Troy a perfect citizen, it may take up to a year. I know you're only venting on here but please consider this commitment carefully. Most of his behaviour is typical staffy; they are excitable, noisy, clingy dogs. They are jumpy terriers, not stolid bulldogs.
He may never act how you consider a dog should act. He will definately get better with consistent training but he may never be the sort of dog you can tie up in the beer garden and relax with. Of course he may but he might always be very excitable-are you prepared for that?
Keep calm and carry on mate.
Also there are harnesses you can buy that clip up at the side and don't go over the dog's head at all. Also have you tried a halti leader? I would strongly recommend one. Worked wonders with my 15 stone rotty and a lady I know has a very DA rotty she walks in a halti and it works wonders, the dog walks absolutely perfect to heel.

I'd be interested to hear if others who work full time let or don't let their dogs sleep in their room

I work full time, i'm out the house from 7.30am to 7pm. Romeo sleeps in my room but its locked during the day, he has a bed in the living room he sleeps in or he goes on the sofa.
All the behaviour you're experiencing now with Troy is so much like Romeo when he was younger I can't stress this enough. He's an amazing dog now and i'm sure Troy will be as well one day.

Gee wrote:He is not uptight when playing on a secluded field or indoors, so how can I help him relax when we are out?

I remember when Julie took on Lottie a little while ago, someone told her that Lottie was on a knife's edge all the time, even though Julie hadn't really spotted it! Hopefully Julie will read this & give you some tips on calming him down - indoors & out!

We have Suki sit and show here some food. We give her the wait command and then put on the harness and collar and reward her for being good. Sounds simple but it can still be a struggle. She is very high energy as well.

I've been around Pit Bulls or AmStaffs most of my life and we have had Suki over a year and I still wouldn't consider her trained. She is mostly a good girl but does still have her moments. She still pulls towards people and other dogs and has a few other issues. The key is patience and consistancy and accepting the fact that it is a work in progress and we can all use help and advice at times

Caryll wrote:

Gee wrote:He is not uptight when playing on a secluded field or indoors, so how can I help him relax when we are out?

I remember when Julie took on Lottie a little while ago, someone told her that Lottie was on a knife's edge all the time, even though Julie hadn't really spotted it! Hopefully Julie will read this & give you some tips on calming him down - indoors & out!

True caryll. we took lottie to see a behaviourist and she said that basically lottie was living on pure ardrenalin and fear. to calm them down a little we had to give her oily fisih everyday not a lot just maybe one sardine in oil. its not just for her she said lemmy (who we have had since a baby) would benefit too. basicaly the oil in the fish reacts with the dogs body and helps to produce dopamine which si like a natural valium basicaly helping the dog to be more relaxed. this has helped greatly. we were also told that it is not just basic training but behaviour modification so the walking away and trying to destract methods and then giving lots of praise when she has ignored something or someone or what ever the trigger is at the time. it has taken us 4 months to get lottie where she is now and i dont ever think we could let her off lead around people and dogs yet but we have got to the stage where a walk is turning more pleasent. keeping her mind stimulated is just as much as important as relaxation time. we go to training classes to socialise her more and walk her on ashort lead round where there are lots of people and other dogs so she will now walk past them without freaking out. the jumps and things at home are confidence building she gives abig staffy smile when she feels good in herself for something she has done no matter what it is. training is getting her to behave and listen to us. in down time we relax on the couch with lots of cuddles and affection which in turn gets her to trust and she knows we arent going to do anything mean to her. lottie is a loving dog and soaks up praise and affection you will learn to know your dog and what makes him tick so you can work with that to get him to listen. they are not just a high energy dog they need lots of stimulation too. a dog should use its nose a lot so we hide treats and things round the house for them both to find and this keeps them occupied by themselves for a few minutes. we are starting to see the good lottie now rather than the scared nervous lottie and you will too with time and patience. its been 5 months about now with lottie and she will always be my work in progress but i love her to bits and wouldnt swap her for the world and could kick the person that abandoned her and made her the way she was but if they hadnt abandoned her she wouldnt have found us. you will have a happy dog it just takes time

Thanks Julie! I knew you'd had problems as well, let's hope it's a help with gee & Troy!

shakespearesdog wrote:

Look at the below video, this is what happens if I take a seat in the local park. I'd hate to suggest this is normal Staffy behavior:

Perhaps Staffies are not the breed for you? As i've said before it will take a lot of time for him to settle. The behaviour he is exhibiting is the sort of way my dog used to behave when he was 6-12 months old, he's really not socialized or used to anything. It will take time
My dog will still sometimes pull when hes very excited and he goes compeltely bonko in the vets and I consider him well trained.
If I remember rightly the last dog you had was when you were a lot younger and was a mongrel. I'm assuming your parents trained him? (Please correct me if i'm wrong)
Dog training is hard It will take more then a couple of months to make Troy a perfect citizen, it may take up to a year. I know you're only venting on here but please consider this commitment carefully. Most of his behaviour is typical staffy; they are excitable, noisy, clingy dogs. They are jumpy terriers, not stolid bulldogs.
He may never act how you consider a dog should act. He will definately get better with consistent training but he may never be the sort of dog you can tie up in the beer garden and relax with. Of course he may but he might always be very excitable-are you prepared for that?
Keep calm and carry on mate.
Also there are harnesses you can buy that clip up at the side and don't go over the dog's head at all. Also have you tried a halti leader? I would strongly recommend one. Worked wonders with my 15 stone rotty and a lady I know has a very DA rotty she walks in a halti and it works wonders, the dog walks absolutely perfect to heel.

Why would you suggest the breed is not correct for me if on the other hand you say it is something that will settle with time? If so then great. I understand that them being vocal is part of the breed but surely you can see in the video that is not normal behavior?

There is excitement and then there is over excitement. I don't think you can fully appreciate it until you have witnessed it for yourself. Please remember he is a rescue dog which he likely was not walked frequently, not fed frequently, not trained and not socialised.

I know this because:

He was not defined, he has already but on weight / muscle.
He is ravenous when eating as if he doesn't know when his next feed will be.
Constantly scans the pavement for food and tries to steal
Previous owner had no food on the Wednesday when I saw him and still no food when I picked him up on the Friday.
He knew zero commands.
He gets nervous on walks, appears to be all new to him.

I have seen plenty of Staffys on our ventures that are very well behaved and do not act in anyway that Troy does, he has an extreme reaction compared to all dogs I come across on walks.

Really depends on what you consider to be bonko and what I consider to be bonko. I doubt your dog act's as bonko as my dog did at the vets!

I have considered the commitment carefully, I did this before even getting Troy. I may of been a little naive to the problems a rescue dog can have, but live and learn. What's the alternative, give him away? No chance. He is my dog and I love him. Yes I was frustrated when I created this topic but I am in no way remotely considering getting rid of him, he is with me for life.

I appreciate he may not be as placid as other dogs and won't relax in a beer garden with me, but his reaction to a brief stop in the park is way beyond the behavior of any dog I think.

In regards to my other dogs, there was 4-5 of us in the household and we all did out part. By the way, I am almost 30 years old.

If it takes up to a year then so be it, I'll report back March 2013 and let you know how he is getting on

He has shown some improvements, yesterday in the park he saw too dogs while we were playing with his long lead on. He noticed them and showed some interest but came when I called and carried on playing. Other times he will go absolutely berk and still does at times, but not ALL the time anymore. I guess it is more frustrating when you see improvements and then appear to take backwards steps, but there has been some suggestion this happens as they settle in and push the boundaries.

He knows a load of tricks now and learns very fast. I think it is his nervousness and the lack of socialisation that causes the problems.

_julie_ wrote:

Caryll wrote:

Gee wrote:He is not uptight when playing on a secluded field or indoors, so how can I help him relax when we are out?

I remember when Julie took on Lottie a little while ago, someone told her that Lottie was on a knife's edge all the time, even though Julie hadn't really spotted it! Hopefully Julie will read this & give you some tips on calming him down - indoors & out!

True caryll. we took lottie to see a behaviourist and she said that basically lottie was living on pure ardrenalin and fear. to calm them down a little we had to give her oily fisih everyday not a lot just maybe one sardine in oil. its not just for her she said lemmy (who we have had since a baby) would benefit too. basicaly the oil in the fish reacts with the dogs body and helps to produce dopamine which si like a natural valium basicaly helping the dog to be more relaxed. this has helped greatly. we were also told that it is not just basic training but behaviour modification so the walking away and trying to destract methods and then giving lots of praise when she has ignored something or someone or what ever the trigger is at the time. it has taken us 4 months to get lottie where she is now and i dont ever think we could let her off lead around people and dogs yet but we have got to the stage where a walk is turning more pleasent. keeping her mind stimulated is just as much as important as relaxation time. we go to training classes to socialise her more and walk her on ashort lead round where there are lots of people and other dogs so she will now walk past them without freaking out. the jumps and things at home are confidence building she gives abig staffy smile when she feels good in herself for something she has done no matter what it is. training is getting her to behave and listen to us. in down time we relax on the couch with lots of cuddles and affection which in turn gets her to trust and she knows we arent going to do anything mean to her. lottie is a loving dog and soaks up praise and affection you will learn to know your dog and what makes him tick so you can work with that to get him to listen. they are not just a high energy dog they need lots of stimulation too. a dog should use its nose a lot so we hide treats and things round the house for them both to find and this keeps them occupied by themselves for a few minutes. we are starting to see the good lottie now rather than the scared nervous lottie and you will too with time and patience. its been 5 months about now with lottie and she will always be my work in progress but i love her to bits and wouldnt swap her for the world and could kick the person that abandoned her and made her the way she was but if they hadnt abandoned her she wouldnt have found us. you will have a happy dog it just takes time

Thanks, I will make a note of this and read properly at home. Need to get some work done right now

We got one of these sporn harnesses for Winston because when he decides to pull, he is like an ox, and I have to be careful with my dicky knee! The neck part is clicked open and closed so they don't put their head through it..

http://sporn.com/training/sporn-halter/ ( there are a few reviews about it on that page too )

Watched the video..that was typical staffy talk..I hear it all the time!

Hang in there..you are doing an awesome job with Troy !

oops forgot to say my Jethro is really highly strung. I tried rescue remedy drops on him with good results...I got it made up in a large bottle from a natropath so it was pretty cheap. He had 10 drops in his water and 10 drops in his food.. That could be worth a try.

Gee wrote:
I appreciate he may not be as placid as other dogs and won't relax in a beer garden with me

you will be surprised one day you will i got to stop in the picnic area at the park the other day and lottie just laid on the ground beside me. admitadley it was only a minute or 2 so if i had a beer i would have had to drink it fast but she did it. with your love support training and the help you can get on here you will get there. like you say its not quick and it is hard at times but trust in yourself and your dog and you will both get there. everything at the moment is work on the lead but for those moments where there is no one around an extender lead would be good for a bit more freedom.

vanessa wrote:We got one of these sporn harnesses for Winston because when he decides to pull, he is like an ox, and I have to be careful with my dicky knee! The neck part is clicked open and closed so they don't put their head through it..

http://sporn.com/training/sporn-halter/ ( there are a few reviews about it on that page too )

Watched the video..that was typical staffy talk..I hear it all the time!

Hang in there..you are doing an awesome job with Troy !

how would you know what size to get. lemmy is only a we man and lottie is my bruiser cos she's part boxer

shakespearesdog wrote:Perhaps Staffies are not the breed for you?

I would say that with the amount of work gee is putting in to Troy, it's exactly the right breed for him!

Gee, you're doing ok - so is Troy in his own way. He will start to settle when he can become less anxious. Take note of what Julie's said & keep on training. It will improve and you'll have a dog in a million!

this post was originaly to help you but i am getting some tips from others too like the harness and back pack. your only in huddersfield do you drive. if you do have you tried a nice walk on a weekend somehwere on the moors or somewhere like that., this is where the extender is great they get to sniff around and have a bit of an adventure. lottie loved it up on ilkley moore last weekend though she did find the muddy boggy puddles so we had to go to the stream to clean her off a bit to come home but she loved the outdoors and the freedom on the extender lead. extender leads are good for teahcing recall too. let him go full ectension and then call him back when he comes give hima treat or just a bit of a fuss cos then he can go again. he will then learn that not every time he is called back is for to be told off restrained on and ordinary lead or to be brought back in the house so he may come back more often. lottie thinks she's always gettinga treat the cheeky girl.

I actually have him off the lead when playing ball in the afternoon and on a night when it is quiet.

We have been a few places and very long walks but not the moors as yet. We keep meaning to go Scammy Dam and places like that.

How long is your extender lead? I have a long lead which is 50ft. I have it attached to him but don't hold it, it's there just in case.

Caryll wrote:

shakespearesdog wrote:Perhaps Staffies are not the breed for you?

I would say that with the amount of work gee is putting in to Troy, it's exactly the right breed for him!

Gee, you're doing ok - so is Troy in his own way. He will start to settle when he can become less anxious. Take note of what Julie's said & keep on training. It will improve and you'll have a dog in a million!

Thank you.

It is always nice to get encouragement from you guys here when feeling a bit down in the dumps or frustrated! Thanks a lot to everyone here that has given me and continues to give me advice and encouragement.

_julie_ wrote:

vanessa wrote:We got one of these sporn harnesses for Winston because when he decides to pull, he is like an ox, and I have to be careful with my dicky knee! The neck part is clicked open and closed so they don't put their head through it..

http://sporn.com/training/sporn-halter/ ( there are a few reviews about it on that page too )

Watched the video..that was typical staffy talk..I hear it all the time!

Hang in there..you are doing an awesome job with Troy !

how would you know what size to get. lemmy is only a we man and lottie is my bruiser cos she's part boxer

I bought it a petstock store and got to try it on Winston ..he has a large one... but they are adjustable as I have had to make it abit bigger as he has grown ( he is about 26 kilos now ) They are alot cheaper over the internet so you could always go to a store that sells them and try one on your doggies.......and then say you will think about it and go and buy one over the internet! (sshh did I say that?? )

Thanks for the suggestion by the way Vanessa.

Why would you suggest the breed is not correct for me if on the other hand you say it is something that will settle with time? If so then great. I understand that them being vocal is part of the breed but surely you can see in the video that is not normal behavior?

I'm just saying that you may need to prepare yourself that he may never be one of those really calm relaxed dogs as staffies are proper nutcases sometimes. I'm only trying to explain it to you, perhaps i'm putting it the wrong way.
I think you're doing a great job with Troy and I often think you don't give yourself or Troy enough credit for the progress you've made. One day you'll look back and be like 'Wow he used to be so naughty/hyper'
I'm actually trying to help you but I can see my advice isn't wanted. I only meant it in a friendly way but once again my comments are being misconstrued agaisnt me so I won't bother to post anymore.

honestly you are doing a great job...Troy is a lucky boy to have been adopted by you..he just doesn't know it yet!!

shakespearesdog wrote:

Why would you suggest the breed is not correct for me if on the other hand you say it is something that will settle with time? If so then great. I understand that them being vocal is part of the breed but surely you can see in the video that is not normal behavior?

I'm just saying that you may need to prepare yourself that he may never be one of those really calm relaxed dogs as staffies are proper nutcases sometimes. I'm only trying to explain it to you, perhaps i'm putting it the wrong way.
I think you're doing a great job with Troy and I often think you don't give yourself or Troy enough credit for the progress you've made. One day you'll look back and be like 'Wow he used to be so naughty/hyper'
I'm actually trying to help you but I can see my advice isn't wanted. I only meant it in a friendly way but once again my comments are being misconstrued agaisnt me so I won't bother to post anymore.

Hey...don't be like that

This happens all the time on the internet and via text message on mobile phones etc, things get taken differently when we can't hear the persons tone of voice or body language.

I appreciate all the help and have never suggested your help is not wanted at all. It wasn't clear exactly what you meant initially as it seemed contradictory to what you were saying, but you have explained now so it's all good.