Help really needed please...

hi all

River has just bit my daughters lip and drew blood, now i dont know what to do?? i was in the room there was no growling, or barking, my daughter just went to kiss her on the head and she bit her lip. i have told river no calmly, and said bed then closed the door on her create with a blanket over her to give her a time out.. what do i do now????

Was it an accident? What was River doing when your daughter bent over her?

Oh god how awful. Is your daughter ok? Can you describe exactly what happened before and during?

She's always been great with your daughter before, hasn't she? Sometimes it's just a mistake - they often don't know their own strength & she'll probably be feeling really bad now. How is your daughter taking it?

ok.. river was laid on her sheet on the sofa i was on here..my daughter went over to her and tried to kiss her on the head, next think my daughter screamed and started crying saying river bit her and her lip was bleeding from two marks on her lip. i was calm, said river bed..and closed the door on her create and put the blanket over her create to give her some time out..the thing is river didn't growl or bark or anything...i wouldn't of even known it had happened if my daughter didn't cry. my daughter came to me earlier and said river has been showing her her teeth. but i have not noticed anything, i don't leave them in the room together my daughter does try and cuddle river a lot.. maybe it was a leave me alone thing..i don't know what to do..if it was full on aggression i could sort that, but to be honest im wondering cos it was silent almost whether that is worse. i don't think it was an accident either cos they wasn't playing...

well river did feel bad cos she went to her creat tail between her legs, i made sure i didn't shout at her. she just kind of accepted she had done wrong. my daughter was upset i put peas on it and cleaned it up.. and shes saying don't send river away i love her she is my friend.... but that's because i told her before we got river she has listen to me and treat her the way i say otherwise she wont be able to stay.

yes they have always got on fine. i don't understand....river snapped at my daughter the other day but that's because she was cuddling her from behind..and i told my daughter off for that.. im just a bit worried because she drew blood..

This is a tricky one because obviously you have to put your daughter first. I would tell your daughter to give River some space for a while, then have her just come over while you are right there. No contact straight away, slowly build it up. Don't allow her to bend over from above, that's intimidating for a dog. If it happens again, I'm afraid you'll have to think about letting River go. Keep a very close eye on them, and closely watch River's body language when they are together.

you dont supose river was in any sort of pain before your daughter came to her? or did she have any food or toy with her. it was clearly a warning towards your daughter. but then again this is just from what i know from the staffs my family has had. they are not verbally loud, but they ooze body language, the signs might have been there but your daughter (i'll guess is kinda young) wouldnt have noticed and you were not there to see

I agree. It sounds like River was unhappy about the amount or type of attention she was getting from your daughter & that was her way of letting her know. The thing is, a dog will nip another dog when they have had enough of something, and that may be all River was doing - she may not have even meant to make actual contact.

Having said that, it can't be allowed to happen, obviously. As Shon says, I'd tell your daughter to give River a little space over the next week or so and avoid the cuddling or leaning over her. Let them both relax again around each other without getting in each other's faces.

Watch River & see if there's anything different in her body language towards your daughter (or anyone else).

Just a thought...is River ok? I mean, is she a little off colour or quieter than usual? Could she perhaps be feeling a little under the weather and so a bit irritable?

yeah thats what i was thinking, dogs tend to be silent about their threats and whne they are sick they are extra easy to set off. have you had river her whole life?

I don't think this was Rivers fault. I think, as said above, she was acting out typical dog behaviour and letting your daughter know the attention wasn't wanted.

Kellev has done this before, as in snap when things get too much for him, when other pay him too much attention and Ju will growl and try to get away. I give those making the mistake (humans) a verbal warning and then let the times roll. I've warned them, the dogs have warned them, anything else other than that, I don't usually move a muscle.

Skullkandi wrote:I don't think this was Rivers fault. I think, as said above, she was acting out typical dog behaviour and letting your daughter know the attention wasn't wanted.

Kellev has done this before, as in snap when things get too much for him, when other pay him too much attention and Ju will growl and try to get away. I give those making the mistake (humans) a verbal warning and then let the times roll. I've warned them, the dogs have warned them, anything else other than that, I don't usually move a muscle.

I agree to an extent, but this is a very young child we are talking about, and so we really do have to get to the bottom of it - it can't be allowed.

no we have had River 4 weeks 2 days, she was a rescue dog due to be put to sleep, till we took her. but there was an assessment done and she didnt show any aggression towards any dogs or humans. and in the 4 weeks we have had her she has been nothing but loving.. saying that the last few days she has been a bit funny. i posted a couple of days ago i wondered if she was coming into season cos the other day she seemed a bit miffed even barked at her kong cos she couldnt get the filling out lol. i dont want her to go we love her and she is apart of the family now, although if it does happen again i will have to think about letting her go but i so dont want to.

she has always been wary of my daughter though ( she is 7 next week) wont take treat of her, looks at me first to say its ok. looks at me most times when river is near her. i am wondering if there where young children where she was before, and was punished even if the children did wrong.

i thought the other day river was showing signs of being jealous of my daughter ie looking at us when we were sat on the sofa together, seeimg not to like any attention from my daughter and climbing in between us on the sofa.. maybe the signs have been there all along.. then again maybe my daughter tries and cuddles river to much. maybe im just looking for things that are not there

with my son who is 16 river has a totally different relationship.

i have told my daughter to stay away and leave river alone and wait till river goes to her.. i wont leave them in the same room together alone i will watch and see what happens. thank you all. this is a heart breaking situation. of all the issues i thought we might face this wasnt one...

From what you've just posted, it definitely sounds as if Rivers uncomfortable with your daughter. Please, please, keep very close eye on the situation, don't get complacent, watch Rivers body language very closely.

ok i will, thank you all.

Its very possible she veiws your daughter as a threat, and is also highly possible that she gets jelouas. My brothers dog gets jelouas easily if you give too much attention to another dog, and he doesnt like people sitting next to my brother. You may never know what has happened to her in the past, its pratically impossible to know, but it could have been any number of things from being tormented by kids to haveing never really been near children and not knowing how to react. just take it slowly. Kids can be kinda scary and annoying for any dog

Yes, I think you will need to monitor the situation very carefully. It could be that, as you say, she had bad experiences with children in her previous home(s) and is resentful.

If she is showing signs of jealousy then I would nip it in the bud. Don't allow her to squeeze between you on the sofa, make her stay on the floor when you're sitting with your daughter.

Have you asked the people you got her from if she was spayed? If not, she could be coming into season & that can sometimes affect a bitch's tolerance of certain situations. If that's the case, then spaying may be all that's needed to correct the problem.

aww i hope your lil girl is ok .. everybody above has said everything i would of said .. i got bit on the lip by a german shepard i went to pick my phone up of the floor but it was right next to him and he nipped my lip realized what he did and licked me to bits, it is scary so must of been alot scarier for your lil girl.
when you come from above/over a dog its very intimidating and obv a dog cant turn around and say excuse me please dont do that, they have to warn off using contact or been vocal etc.
as said above i would restrict the amount of hugs etc your lil girl gives river, it could all just be a bit too much ESP if she is due her season as they can be very moody at this time .. your doing the right thing by not leaving them alone, just keep a close eye on rivers body language etc.
Small children are like puppies to older dogs sometimes, at times they can get annoying to the dog and they get fed up.
Hope its just a one of

now this may seem like i am going off subject but bare with me. my brother had a border collie and then he met michelle. he moved in with michelle and of course it was love him love his dog. michelle really wasnt a dog lover so litteraly did put up with it. anyway inevitably michelle ended up giving birth to ellie and every time the dog went near the baby michelle would shout at him then along came leah then millie and the dog was * off of being shouted at so when the kids went within a couple of feet of him he growled at them anyway back to the point you said you wondered if there were young children where river was before. i wonder if something similar to this has happened and so river now thinks she will be shouted at or worse if kids are near her so she was warning your daughter to stay away. keep your eye on them and watch for any signs of anything and let us all know. we will get to the bottom of it and hopefully we will all be able to help find a solution.

Another thought....River is still in a settling down period. It can take a rescue dog several months to really 'fit in' to a new home. She's still trying to work out her place, and even whether she'll be staying. She'll occasionally be anxious, even though you won't understand why.

Hopefully, all it will take is some minor adjustments in the way she is treated to address the jealousy, and the way your daughter interracts with her.

thank you all so much, i just opened her create she cam out come to me and went to where my daughter was looked at her, gave her a sniff and got back in her create.. the door is open again now. i was just in teaers cos obviously my daughter comes first, but i love river so much already and the thought of having to let her go and say goodbye is breaking my heart. i am hoping if do do all what you say it will be ok again.

no she hasnt been spayed she is between one and two and they bred her where she was before by the looks of her poor feeding bits more than once. i had planned to do this next month but think i will phone the vets in the morning. even if the worst comes to the worst and i have to let her go, at least i have peace of mind in knowing that she has been spayed and no one can use her again. money well spent i reckon.. but i really dont want it to come to that, i am hoping when i put all your advice into practice that will work. thank you all so much for being there. i will keep you updated

im gonna keep river downstairs tonight, she started sleeping with me on my bed, but just thought this might be adding to the im hers jealously thing. or do you think that will make it worse. i will shut the living room door and leave her down here.

Fingers crossed. It could be a lot of little things all building up...new home, possible season, could be feeling off colour, not used to young children, not comfortable with close cuddling from children yet.

I would certainly get her spayed, although if she is coming into season the vet won't do her yet - they prefer to wait for mid way between seasons to allow all the hormones etc to go back to normal.

It might be an idea to stop her sleeping with you - she might be bonding too closely with you & could be getting a little jealous.

I'm so very sorry this has happened and I can understand how upset you must be. But a lot has happened to River in her short life and although she has become part of your family during the last 4 weeks and is now in a loving home, she may well be finding everything a little overwhelming.

It doesn't sound like aggression to me, but then I wasn't there.

If it were me I would get her checked over and then just monitor the situation very closely and explain to your daughter to give River a little space for a while.

Its obvious from your posts that you love this dog and she is a lucky girl to have been rescued by someone like you. Please don't be offended but sometimes we need to take things a little slower with a rescue and give them time and space to adapt.

Hope your little daughter is ok and everything works out ok for you all as a family.

Hope your daughter is ok

When I got Ledger one of the other Staffys at the rescue was there because the 14yr old daughter from his previous home used to regularly climb into his bed and one day he nipped her and Ledgers info pack said that he was returned when being pulled across the room by his collar he bit the owner. Both of these situations are the dogs wanting their space but you can also appreciate why a family would decide not to have a dog in their home

Ledger can be the most cuddly of snuggly dogs but there are times when he just wants to curl up in his crate or take himself off upto bed. 6 months on and I am still learning his moods. From how you have described it sounds maybe more defensive than aggressive I dont have kids but there is a vast difference in how Ledger reacts to dogs that are aggressive towards him and how he tells off an over enthusiastic puppy but I only know that from experience with him.

Only you can evaluate what happened with River and decide where to go from here but hopefully just a bit of space and time will sort things

River has become a little too big for her boots and you need to start over with her try to not let her dominate everyone in the house by letting her do what she wants she has a place and dogs do feel secure there. River probably thinks that cause you put a sheet on the furniture that its her place and dogs dont take kindly to being disturbed really nipping is there way of saying Ive had enough now leave me alone. Try encouraging your daughter to feed river with your supervision but if you see river getting stressed then walk away never challenge never try to comfort a dog when anxious they dont veiw it as that they veiw it as being challenged.
Im sure its just a misunderstanding and you are dealing with it but you can never trust any dog 100% with a child its just not worth it, you must put in the rules with your daughter river requires times when she needs space to rest and be a dog and she loves you just the same kissing is not veiwed for a dog the same way we think they respond much better when they are earning for you in play and tricks.
Im no expert at all but am looking from rivers situation

So sorry to read this. No extra advice I can really give that hasn't already been said. I hope it works out okay.

So sorry to read this, I hope your daughter is ok.
I agree with all the above, I hope this was a "one off" situation and never happens again.

How heartbreaking. So sorry. Nothing new to add, but some dogs are wary of small children. You can work with it but probably can't ever trust 100% while your daughter is young. Most likly River will get used to her but it will take time and effort. Hopefully it will never occur again.

Very good advice given already. I would however suggest calling in a professional (I am sure your vet could help out with names). At least the situation can be assessed in situ and it will give you peace of mind and confidence in the way you handle this.

thank you all.

i have had tie to think about things and have had a talk with my daughter. telling her all the things that people have suggested and she is young and just wants to love her. when i shut river in her create last night laney was crying cos she said she is all alone now and needs a cuddle bless her, but i explained river needs space to do doggy things and sleep, and explained to her the best way i could. that she wouldn't like to be woken up when she was asleep.we got there in the end.

also as regards to river she isn't going anywhere. i forget we have only had her 4 weeks and we don't know her back ground, i have thought and thought about what happened and it wasn't aggressive at all, it was more like a mum telling a puppy i don't even think river meant to make contact, cos as soon as she done it she knew. laney left river alone this morning and river is still being sheepish this morning mind due i think she might be sulking cos i left her downstairs last night. but your all right and i will take all info on board. i do think river feels overwhelmed by all the love she is getting and have told even my son to back off with all the love for a bit. im gonna go back to basics with river. Watch when my daughter is about

i personally think the worst thing i can do is send her back. she has a loving home here, we just need to tweak things

if after i have done everything i can and if she does it again i will have to re think. but for now thank you so much and hopefully is just a re adjustment period.

there is a very good dog behavioral psychologist i know off who i have given a ring, he is going to come out next week and assess river. im still sure she isnt a danger but obviously i need to know my daughter is safe.

flame wrote:there is a very good dog behavioral psychologist i know off who i have given a ring, he is going to come out next week and assess river. im still sure she isnt a danger but obviously i need to know my daughter is safe.

Good move. Your anxiety can be intesifying River's behaviour so once you know the way forward you will naturally be calmer and more assured.

thats good news hope all goes well for you. as you say it will put your mind at rest and the behaviourist will have some good suggestions on how you can best help everyone get along. good luck

the behaviorist phoned me back this morning, wiw loads of great stuff i didnt know or expect. things will be fine as long as i stick to what she has told me ( tis her husband who i made the appointment with but she phoned me back after a family member phoned contacted her cos they where concerned.) wow is all i can say. she recommended a book which i just brought of amazon :> and all is going to be well yay! no one has to go anywhere and we can all calm down.

did you know when dogs lick there nose its a calming signal. them telling you to calm down so i am gonna count how many times she does it today..

Also booked laney in with the docs cos i was sure about her jabs, but she is ok, but they want to put her on some anti biol-tics to be on the safe side.

thank you all luv ya loads >< now off to eat my ham and cheese toastie

Great news! That is going to be so helpful for everyone. Keep us posted on what you learn because it may help others out too!

Well thanks for that info. I had no idea the nose licking meant anything. Glad you are feeling happier

Glad things are looking up. Poor River & poor Laney! I bet they both feel a bit sorry for themselves.

I'm so glad that River ended up with your family, cause it really sounds that she's going to do well with you!

just for interests sake what is the book??

Just come in on this post and had a good read through it, I can see how you could have your doubts, agree with all the comments from everyone else, and can also see how you seem to be determined to make it all work. We've had Tilly since she was a puppy and last time she was coming into season she turned a bit funny, jumpy I would say, I'm lucky my daughter is 12 and old and responsible enough to know when to give her a little space, and sounds like Laney is taking it onboard too, sure it's all going to work out fine and there will be many people on here with everything crossed that can possibly be crossed to hope it all goes well for you from now on

Poor them. I hope they are okay and your daughter doesn't become afraid of her. Give her some time to just settle down and let HER come to you/your daughter and if shes lying down leave her be. As the saying goes "let sleeping dogs lie"

Also, dogs licking their lips is a sign of anxiety also, so any dog licking its lips either doesnt want the attention its getting or is scared and confused.

hi

This is the book


On Talking Terms with Dogs: Calming Signals - Turid Rugaas

i cant wait till it comes through.. when i have read the book i will know more. i am facanated by human psychology i have qualifications in it, so this book and dog psychology sounds my kinda thing

i am meeting with the behaviorist next Monday afternoon and he and his wife are going to do a two hour assessment on river, give help while he is here and them we can join there group walks which i think is just what is needed. also for us as a family to know how to make river a happy dog, who doesn't fill just loved but safe as well. i shall let you all know how it goes

i am determined to make this work. i did a chuff load of research before i took river on, im not giving up now. she is an amazing dog and there are faults on all side as everyone always says its not the dog its the owner.. in that case i need to sort me stuffin out lol

Thank you caryll i hope so..

So sorry to read this and I hope your daughter is ok, it sounds like it hasn't made her wary of River which is good and with the dog behaviorists help things will be fine. River is a lucky girl to have found your family.

are you sure it was a bite or was it a head butt?

my dogs are forever headbutting me..

Yep, The nose licking is a big watch for, Junior does it a lot.

it was a bite, she made my daughter lip bleed in two places where her front teeth periced her lip..

lol@ your dogs headbutting you all the time

took her to the doctors (my daughter) and the doc was asking loads of questions.. he asked what breed she was and i am ashamed to say i lied i know for a fact and the look on his face and all the questions if i said she was a staffy he woul dof called the police ad SS.. so i said she was a spaniel... thats all i could think off. i dont like lying but he wasnt doing what i know he was itching to do.... i might even change my doctor now

anyway daughter is ok just whacked her on anti bioltics for animal bits to be on the safe side

animal bits animal bites ahahaha

maybe your daughter did something wrong all dog will bite if someone doing something they dont like dont matter how trained the yare.

to be honest im glad you lied. he deffo would not have been as nice if you had said staffy you just would have gotten that "tut tut" and shaking of the head.