Some advice please

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Some advice please

Post by FlipFlop on Tue Dec 13 2016, 13:33

Hiya, Have a 9 month old rescue dog, full bread but no papers. He came to me at 8 months old. I have had dogs before a Springer and a Boxer ( she broke my heart )

He walks on the lead fine and I have started puppy classes for socialisation mainly.

Twice when on the moors, first time a low banging noise he ran back to the van ( he was scared by it ) and today it was raining same happened again ( guess he isn't a rain fan ) he does have a coat but rain wasn't forecast.

Obviously my recall needs addressing as a priority, I was just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience ? Or could offer any advice on this breed re training tips ? Also going back to the van is good in a way as he see it as safe. I know our bond isn't there as of yet as such a short time, he knows his name and all basic sit wait paw he does now ( previous owners only spoke French )

Kind Regards

Jamie
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Re: Some advice please

Post by FlipFlop on Tue Dec 13 2016, 13:54

Oh also he was taken away from his mother at 4 weeks old sadly and hadn't had any injections
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Re: Some advice please

Post by Dukes Momma on Tue Dec 13 2016, 16:35

Hello and welcome. Someone will be along shortly to welcome you officially and give some advice Smile
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Re: Some advice please

Post by FlipFlop on Tue Dec 13 2016, 16:58

Hiya thank you seems a very knowledgeable place
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Re: Some advice please

Post by Mia05 on Tue Dec 13 2016, 16:59

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Re: Some advice please

Post by Mia05 on Tue Dec 13 2016, 17:05

hiya id firstly get a long line and practise practise that recall. take lots of high value treats and make positive associations with loud noises and use a gentle voice when reassuring him. id give him at least 3 months to settle into your ways and getting to know one another Smile once hes settled set a few routines , staffies love routine and are very much people orintated dogs . introduce him to different vehicles and different animals . you sound like you are well on your way already. oh i forgot well done on the rescue Laughing
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Re: Some advice please

Post by FlipFlop on Tue Dec 13 2016, 17:14

Hiya thanks, have got a Lunge Line for a horse, 10m one just had him out on it. I also take him into a tennis court so he can play fetch ( very ball oriented even over liver )
He hasn't been left alone since we got him, he is happy to go into a crate in the house and van ( for work )
It has just spooked me a little, the running back to the van, as even when he had a dog in eye shot, he ran towards it but with us running other way and calling him he came...

Oh also any advice on mouthing when front paw cleaning would be nice, ouch and a no stopped him for a second or two Big Grin Big Grin
I know they are very human oriented more so then other dogs...
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Re: Some advice please

Post by Mia05 on Tue Dec 13 2016, 17:27

sometimes they can eat their paws for a number of reasons, could be his diet, or a pollen allergy i would distract him with a kong or a butchers bone if he persists on eating his paws ask the vet as may be an allergy of some kind.
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Re: Some advice please

Post by FlipFlop on Tue Dec 13 2016, 17:32

Hiya sorry I mean when I'm cleaning them ( thinks he needs to help me ) no yeast infection or anything

After having a very chewy Boxer, I've bought a bull horn for him works a treat. Our boxer eat our couch no word of a lie /o\


Last edited by FlipFlop on Tue Dec 13 2016, 17:33; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Grammar)
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Re: Some advice please

Post by LizP on Tue Dec 13 2016, 17:33

Hi and welcome from me and mine!

Staffies can be quite sensitive dogs and that, combined with his rather insecure start in life, is probably at the heart of this. You do also sometimes get dogs who are naturally more nervous as well.

As with all dogs but even more so for these nervous ones, you need to use lots of positive method training, working in very small steps to build up confidence. Do most of your initial training at home where he's more comfortable and I'd echo the use of a long training line when out and about until you feel he's more settled. That will also give you the confidence to walk with him knowing he can't bolt off.

I like to start recall training in the same room -  call your dog (what's his name?) when he's almost next to you and, when he comes, give him praise and a treat. Do this a few times, maybe a couple of sessions, and then call him from over the other side of the room, then from another room, etc., building up in small steps the knowledge that 'come!' means he'll get a treat, always.

Then work outside, on the line. Never call if he's totally absorbed in something else until he's absolutely spot on with his recall. If he doesn't come straight away, take a couple of steps back and that should help draw him to you. Only use the line to stop him going further away, not to pull him to you. Lots of praise, lots of treats!

I would then suggest you go on your walks and from time to time, for no real reason other than because of it, call him to you, praise and treat. Keep doing this even when he's good with his recall, you can't over-practice. Even now with my dogs I'll throw in the odd recall practice, just to keep it solid.

With respect to the desire to flee, note when he reacts so you can start to anticipate when he might worry. Clearly noises are a trigger for him but you might discover other triggers as well. I would always carry treats with you on walks anyway, but in particular for this. Any time there is any worrying event, go into super happy mode - 'yay! a bang, how wonderful!' - and give him a treat. If you can, set up training sessions with low level noises that you think he might react to and practice this at home. You can get all sorts of noises on youtube, etc., and you should also be able to stage things like dropping cardboard boxes, slamming doors, etc. You may need a helper. With each one, you immediately react as if you'd won the lottery.

This can take time but it does work. I've trained a dog who used to dig through floors and chew through doors at the first pop of a firework to sleep through them this way.

One other idea for you to think about is clicker training, not necessarily even for specific commands or anything, just because it's a great way to work with nervous dogs as it can really boost confidence. By teaching a dog to do tricks and things, you can help them feel in control of life a bit more and turn 'I can't' into 'I can'.

Mouthing/nipping when handling his front paws might be that he's uncomfortable with the idea of you touching them. Paws are important things, they're what you run away on. I'd suggest you don't worry about cleaning them for the moment but instead work on building up general leg/paw handling simply through stroking to start off with, then lightly holding. When you do this, if he moves away keep with him and then release when he stops moving, which means he gets the release for being still. If he struggles with it, go back a step to make it easier.

Please shout if you need any more ideas. I used to be a horse trainer specialising in nervous and scared remedial horses, and have experience of nervous dogs as well.


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Re: Some advice please

Post by Mia05 on Tue Dec 13 2016, 17:42

trust is paramount i wouldn't fuss his paws till he has settled in great advice liz
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Re: Some advice please

Post by FlipFlop on Tue Dec 13 2016, 18:05

Yeah that's what I'm working on most trust and bonding..

Thanks LizP

Re paws when not back from a walk he is absolutely fine our Ron let's me touch stroke even put fingers in between them..

Also very very happy to let me look into his mouth at his teeth and will let me take food off him, bones he gets a bit funny with...

As I say all help much appreciated
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Re: Some advice please

Post by LizP on Tue Dec 13 2016, 18:11

His paws aren't a bit sore after a walk, are they? I know Chaos had very tender little pads when we first got him as he'd not had much walking (very sweet little pink things, they were!) and it took a good few weeks for them to harden off. Might Ron have a touch of that?

Re bones, teach him 'leave it' or whatever words you like for that command so that he'll give you a toy first, then move on to chews and bones. When you get there, give him his bone back for giving it to you, so he doesn't feel he needs to hold onto it and instead knows he'll get it for keeps for just doing that simple thing. If he growls or anything, then hold it for a short while as you turn away from him, give it back and then ask him to 'leave it' again. Growling gets it taken away, giving it to you gets it back to him.


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Re: Some advice please

Post by FlipFlop on Tue Dec 13 2016, 18:31

I don't think so re his paws, think it's a game for him as towel and me I've just checked them but I'd not thought of that thank you..

He was the same with tennis balls when we first introduced them to him, wouldn't give or drop them, would only drop them at the car/van.

Growling is a no no here, so will be implementing that.
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Re: Some advice please

Post by stella on Tue Dec 13 2016, 19:50

Hia from me and Sasha Smile great advise from Liz and Crystal,i would def get a long training lead Big Grin


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Re: Some advice please

Post by -Ian- on Tue Dec 13 2016, 20:11

Hi ya, welcome to the forum from Flo & me Big Grin

The advice above is all very good so I don't think I can offer anything else except.... RAIN. Most Staffies do not like the rain, some are fine but I think I know more that don't so what you experienced is very common. My Flo takes a look outside first and if theres a hint of rain she will go straight back to bed and hide her face Laughing


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Re: Some advice please

Post by LizP on Wed Dec 14 2016, 08:08

Good point, Ian! Laughing


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Re: Some advice please

Post by gillybrent on Wed Dec 14 2016, 10:07

Hi & welcome!

FlipFlop wrote:

Growling is a no no here, so will be implementing that.

although I do understand that comment, please do remember that a dog's only way of telling us that they are uncomfortable or unhappy with something is by growling. if you make too much of the growling, you risk your dog going straight to the next stage, which could be a bite.

growling should be gently discouraged but not outrightly punished, if that makes sense! Liz is better at putting things into words than i am! Big Grin

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Re: Some advice please

Post by VikkiGT4 on Wed Dec 14 2016, 11:16

Hi and welcome to the forum from me and the zoo Smile xx
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Re: Some advice please

Post by FlipFlop on Wed Dec 14 2016, 13:34

Thanks for all the advice,

As for growling I don't mean it's not allowed as it's what dogs do, I mean I'll stop playing or whatever we are doing, unless i deem it ok , like playing tug of war where that for me is fine as its not, telling me no don't take this off me or this is mine.

Re Lunge line the little devil has come ever time now last two walks. So take him back on the moors off lead this morning came at few times then, turned a deaf one, but nice clear day so no running back to the van.

I have question re food if you'd be so kind ?

Not a fan of raw food diet here, but I don't want him having fast food every day ( supermarket advertising food )

Currently have him on Wagg worker ( was because is said no added ingredients & sugar ) I now know this covers them re and stuff they use. Handful of dry and either boiled chicken or fish is added to his food, he is doing fine on it coats silky and no adverse behaviour.

Just wondered what your little babies had

Many thanks
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Re: Some advice please

Post by LizP on Wed Dec 14 2016, 15:03

When training, you need to get something really solid before putting it to the test. If you have recall issues, I would keep him on the line for a good couple of weeks while doing lots of fun training in the house and on walks so that he knows, just KNOWS, that he's going to get a treat. A couple of walks isn't enough practice for it to be solid enough.

If you put him in a situation where he can ignore you, that's what he'll learn. It is much better not to call your dog at all if he's not going to come anyway.

With a bit of work, you should fairly soon be able to get to the point that he comes to you like a rocket, each and every time. When you know he's there, then let him off in easy places, make sure that's fine, then go for the open moors. Set him up to succeed, not to fail.

Re feeding, used to feed raw having had a dog with a list of allergies as long as your arm. Then Millie decided she didn't like it so we've swapped to Millie's Wolfheart (with a name like that, how could I not?). It's great quality, and not overly expensive.

https://www.millieswolfheart.co.uk/


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Re: Some advice please

Post by FlipFlop on Wed Dec 14 2016, 18:49

Many thanks will take a look at that food ( haha brilliant name )

Yeah staying on Lunge took hotdogs out today, he did well today was looking for a sign, but then either a big or a bang spooked him, went into pull mode ( Let's get outta here ) it was the bang, as he did calm down we carried on but a timber yard over the field made another bang...

Again he did calm down and ended up having a very good couple of hours.

Plan is two long walks on Lunge will leave the Moors till next year, bar Saturday morning as training classes in the afternoon. Today I stayed near the van so he could play fetch and see me and the van ( good hill for him to run up ) he was fine but want recall 100% if I can ?!

Obviously there are more damage dogs than Ronnie, but our first time so really want to do the best we can for him, 100% convinced if not on Lunge today he'd of bolted as no van as a point of safety.

Many thanks LizP
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Re: Some advice please

Post by Dukes Momma on Wed Dec 14 2016, 20:30

Food wise l have fed Duke on Eden since he was a pup. It's a high quality dry food, made with protein fit for human consumption. It's not full of rubbish fillers and grain.
I like the look of millies wolfheart as well, but haven't tried it.


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Re: Some advice please

Post by LizP on Thu Dec 15 2016, 08:07

You're welcome, any time. Smile

Yes, there are some seriously messed up dogs in the world and Ronnie's a lucky lad he's not one of them. But, he has still had a less than ideal start to life so you're absolutely right to make sure this next stage is as good as possible. Take it all slowly, too slow is better than too fast, and keep listening to him.

He's a very lucky lad to have landed with you.


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Re: Some advice please

Post by FlipFlop on Thu Dec 15 2016, 14:11

Morning walk went really well, hot dogs are working. Even with dogs about Ronnie is coming so will keep this up till and add more distractions over the next few week Smile

The previous owner wants to see him, ( my fault as said he could but I didn't mean it or think he would and was way of getting him out of his clutches ) what time span do you think is appropriate ? What I don't want is to confuse Ronnie obviously as he is coming on really well.

Ta Jamie
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Re: Some advice please

Post by Mia05 on Thu Dec 15 2016, 17:48

FlipFlop wrote:Morning walk went really well, hot dogs are working. Even with dogs about Ronnie is coming so will keep this up till and add more distractions over the next few week Smile

The previous owner wants to see him, ( my fault as said he could but I didn't mean it or think he would and was way of getting him out of his clutches )  what time span do you think is appropriate ? What I don't want is to confuse Ronnie obviously as he is coming on really well.

Ta Jamie

hiya jamie, i just wanted to suggust another great treat theyre called natures menu training treats 95% meat they come in bite sizes and u get beef, chicken and lamb. imo no that counts id leave it 6 month for ronnie to see the previous owner that way both you and the dog are settled both with one another and he will have improved on his recall. cheers crystal
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Re: Some advice please

Post by LizP on Thu Dec 15 2016, 18:12

Re the visit, I'd say it depends on what sort of relationship they used to have and how you feel about it. The emotion you have will affect how Ronnie perceives any meeting. From what you've said, my impression is that you still feel you are bonding. In that case, it might be better to leave it for a while - the important thing is for Ronnie to know that he can look to you, whatever happens.

If you leave it for a while, you might also find that his previous owner looses interest, which would get you out of it nicely. If they do still want to come when you are ready, look at it as an opportunity to show off how fab Ronnie is.

There are some fab treats out there. Hot dogs aren't exactly the best quality but if they work, for the short term they'll do. Nature's Menu is good, and Millie's Wolfheart have some totally revolting bits of animal that stink to high heavens that my guys do back flips for. There's so much on the market but as far as dogs are concerned it's usually a case of the stinkier the better!


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Re: Some advice please

Post by Mia05 on Thu Dec 15 2016, 19:55

hi jamie, heres a list of a few treats i used to feed mia i fed her more the list was too long

good dental chews http://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/dog
/dog-food-and-treats/dog-treats/antos-cerea-toothbrush

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/jwb/james-wellbeloved-crackerjacks-with-duck-biscuits-for-dogs-225gm

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/dog/dog-food-and-treats/dog-treats/natures-menu-lamb-and-chicken-dog-treats-60gm

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/dog/dog-food-and-treats/dog-treats/barking-heads-bailey-bites-digesties-200g-%28online-only%29

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/arden-grange/arden-grange-crunchy-bites-chicken-and-rice-250g-%28online-only%29

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/merch-groups/merch-groups/lp-wainwrights-dog-food/wainwrights-training-treats-with-whole-duck-pieces-25g

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/dog/dog-food-and-treats/dog-treats/fresh-breath-mini-bone-dog-treats
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Re: Some advice please

Post by FlipFlop on Thu Dec 15 2016, 20:20

Hiya thanks for the treats advice, he doesn't eat the hotdogs just wolfs them straight down haha

Yeah re the visit going to put him off, as not fair on Ronnie Xmas a great reason. Will send them a few pictures to keep them happy..

Last question for now, bones what's the best for a Staffy please ? So many conflicting advice around re them giving me a headache....


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Re: Some advice please

Post by Mia05 on Thu Dec 15 2016, 20:22

always gave mia a butchers bone stag bar or a nylabone Smile
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Re: Some advice please

Post by FlipFlop on Thu Dec 15 2016, 20:32

Ta Ron has a Bull Bone he loves it. But want a bone from the butchers and my neighbours one.
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Re: Some advice please

Post by Mia05 on Thu Dec 15 2016, 20:39

just be aware of the bull horn theres been previous instances where the horn has splintered Smile
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Re: Some advice please

Post by FlipFlop on Thu Dec 15 2016, 20:45

Yeah sorry it's a horn not bone. Smile
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Re: Some advice please

Post by Mia05 on Thu Dec 15 2016, 20:56

there was a situation with bull horns splintering think the situations been rectified now Smile
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Re: Some advice please

Post by LizP on Thu Dec 15 2016, 21:08

Go for softer bones, veal/lamb/mutton, or even better, trotters. Avoid weight bearing beef bones, they're very hard and can crack teeth. And always feed bones raw, never cooked.

There are risks with just about anything. For me there's a balance between happy, healthy dogs who love bones and have amazingly clean, healthy teeth, and the risk of splintering/choking. By sticking to raw bones you'll reduce the risk to (what I feel is) acceptable. I feel that's better than teeth problems later.

But... I would get any signs of food possession sorted out before introducing something as high value as a raw bone.


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Re: Some advice please

Post by Mia05 on Thu Dec 15 2016, 21:13

took the possession of the bones right out my mouth liz
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Re: Some advice please

Post by LizP on Fri Dec 16 2016, 07:42

As long as you didn't growl as I did so, Crystal Big Grin


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Re: Some advice please

Post by FlipFlop on Fri Dec 16 2016, 10:35

Thanks as ever re bones, I only ask because Holly ( Boxer ) had to have a teeth operation due to bad teeth, We didn't give her bones.

Yeah agree there is a balance as with everything there is a risk, and I believe it's a small risk here too, Hol was in pain with her teeth sadly.

Yeah re food aggression have started making Ronnie come to me with it. Will next take it off him and obviously give back when he has sat.
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Re: Some advice please

Post by gillybrent on Fri Dec 16 2016, 11:13

if you have a morrisons supermarket near you, they often do cheap packs of lamb spines - these are great because they're a lot softer than other bones & don't splinter. because they're fairly easy to chew, dogs are less likely to try and swallow large pieces that could get stuck.

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Re: Some advice please

Post by FlipFlop on Fri Dec 16 2016, 13:33

Hiya. Yeah I do have a Morrison near me ta will pop down tonight and gets some, and order a pigs trotter or 3 Smile
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Re: Some advice please

Post by FlipFlop on Fri Dec 16 2016, 14:21

What section are they in please ?
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Re: Some advice please

Post by Mia05 on Fri Dec 16 2016, 18:15

jamie they will be in the frozen food section most likely Smile re the bone you don't have to get him to sit just make sure his attention isn't fully focused on the bone and keep the taking the bone away short sessions at a time when i got mia she was possessive over food and bones she growled i took it away id give her the bone back tried to take it she growled again i kept repeating until she got the message she got it pretty quick Laughing i said sharply not shouting i used an even steady tone no! or leave it. that's what i did with mia.
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Re: Some advice please

Post by FlipFlop on Fri Dec 16 2016, 18:33

Ta, Ronnie isn't food possessive will let you take his dinner off him without ant problems. But will try that with the bone. The little monkey same place on our evening walk on the Lunge goes into lead bitting mode haha doesn't do it in the morning, as we go on a different walk, obviously he wants to play which I don't but I look a right wally :/

Clove or breath freshener I've read works on dog any one tried it ?

Stool 10/10 on recall Smile
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Re: Some advice please

Post by gillybrent on Tue Dec 20 2016, 11:33

FlipFlop wrote:What section are they in please ?

in ours, they're on the freshly prepared meat section. if you ask at the butcher's section they may be able to tell you what time of the week the bones are likely to be available.

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Re: Some advice please

Post by Inez Maria on Mon Jan 09 2017, 20:15

Hiya from me and Vinnie,all good advice above Big Grin


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