Another fight

Me And pups were walking by the canal side in north kensington she was off lead and then came a
Huge staffy cross mastiff bitch off lead as well with her owner we started talking and the girls were playing and than in seconds started a fight the other one try to went to peppas neck (she started it) but me and the men hold her quickly he had to pick his massive dog up and thank god he wAs able to as when peppa attacks she goes around so quickly nobody is able to catch her .he hold her up and peppa was runningaround them jumping on his dog. It took me few seconds that seemed forever to catch her and we reintroduced them and all ok but it was scary what if there was a less capable owner? Like last time? Peppa never attacked any dog but if attacked shell go all the way . It's always (2 times now) of quite young staffy x bitches. I think it's a dominance thing.
Thank god not even a scratch to any of them.
She play fight now with her best mate - a tiny tank frenchie girlie .

Sounds horrific. You need to be careful, she's still young and this could ultimately turn her DA. Personally, I wouldn't let her socialize with every dog that she meets, it's not natural and she doesn't need to, especially if she's gotten into more than one fight. Many owners don't know behaviour well enough to say that their dog isn't going to be problematic, especially in breeds as complex as bull breeds, and Peppa could end up in trouble too if she is injuring other dogs.

So what are you suggesting Rach? In the 1st incident pups was playing ball with me when the other dog came out of no where no lead, harness or owner in sight try to bully peppa to give her her ball out of her mouth and the chase became a fight which I can't blame pups she's done no wrong. Yesterday they were both of lead and peppa was more interested  
In her ball and again the other bitch attacked. I don't want to punish peppa as she wasn't the attacker she never is! But when she respond she don't do things by half . I don't know how to avoid situations like this and really scared shell get hurt or hurt badly whats worse for me is she's ridicuilessly quick and when attack she runs around so fast it's very hard to catch her . She's very well behaved so I don't want to always put her on the lead as she's very high energy girl. 
Suggestions please?

I would suggest walking in quieter areas without so many off lead dogs, and socialise her with dogs regularly that she can get to know well and build a bond with. I never let toys, sticks, food.. Anything of value around two dogs together until they have spent a large amount of time together and can be introduced carefully. I didn't let Bis and Max play with toys together until they had lived together for 6 weeks! Peppa doesn't know these other dogs, and really "owes" them nothing, so if she's feeling threatened (by a dog being aggressive) or doesn't want to interact move her on and carry on with your walk. At the moment, she's learning to defend herself and reacting, she should be looking to you to protect her (easier said than done with a bull terrier). If you meet another dog and they approach, let her have a quick sniff and carry on. If she gets attacked by an off lead dog again, report the owner to the dog warden. Building meaningful relationships with dogs that she can spend quality time with, rather than mixing with all dogs that she meets, is much more important to socialization. Staffies IMO are not dog park dogs, they need much more careful interactions.

I have to agree with Rach. You were lucky the guy had the physical ability to get his dog out of the situation. It is dangerous if you can't 'catch' Peppa and you may find another owner could report you for it especially if they get their dog 'under control' quickly and Peppa is still in a heightened level of excitement. 

I'm catching up after a busy few weeks only dipping into the forum but the title 'another fight' concerns me a little. I know my boy is fearful of larger male dogs (particularly with male owners) and his 'back off I'm not happy' signals escalate quickly, situations like you describe can quickly instill a fear that can cause her to be reactive 

I went on a speak dog course and there are lots of pointers online and it has been invaluable in me now managing how Ledger greets and socialises with other dogs

Ah just seen the ball comment this could be a massive trigger, Ledger also loves nothing more than a good run with his ball, he is obsessed with it and pays no attention to other dogs when he has it but if one tried to get it off him which has happened he has air snapped. 

I purposely keep away from other owners and pick a point in the park with a good view for ball play time and mostly they keep their dogs away when we are playing, but if one does come too close I pop Ledger back on the lead until they have passed most owners will call their dogs back when they see that playing isn't an option and just a 'he can get protective over his ball' is understood by those who aren't as switched on

I have also found flyball to help immensely it has improved his recall and is a controlled environment where he and other dogs are in close proximity with balls and all at a high level of excitement. He is now virtually going head on with another dog as they change over but at that point the other dog is focused to go and get its own ball over the jumps and Ledgers focus is coming to me with an even higher value toy it also is fantastic for wearing him out we now have 3hr training sessions with a team but just a single hour would have him sleeping the rest of the day

Rach she is very well socialised she gets along with most of dogs from all sizes and if not she just ignore them she's very self confident but not aggressive and very popular at the parks. I bring other dogs to my place and she loves it. (Always after good introduction) I won't go to the canal 
Off lead again as there are too much bull terriers girls there although she never had any other problem with the others. But I can't stop taking her to the park as she needs to run free. She has good recall and I can always distract her unless she get attacked and she won't back off the other girl yesterday was twice her size and weight you can see the dog fighting breeding just kicks off in those situations. And yesterday I was talking to the owner and asked him and he said his dog is friendly.
If peppa was aggressive she would be on the lead but she's telly not are too incidents a lot for 13 months old dog? I hope it's just coincidence but ill be more careful I wish I knew how to

Jshrew there was no body language of agression from peppa and about the ball she loves it but other dogs even little ones still her ball all the time and she never turns on them she wait for me to get it back it happens every day the other dog tried to take it out if her mouth when she got it and then attacked peppa when she didn't give up her ball! 
Do you think stopping the ball play for a while is a good idea? She can play ball all day it doesnt make her fight other dogs but seems to be trigger to them .i don't know.

The body language can appear extremely subtle to us and I would always be just as aware of the other dog 

Of course ball play doesn't need to be stopped completely just be thoughtful as to when, where and what other dogs are around how rude are other owners allowing their dogs to try and steal the ball!

Some great advice from Rachel & Jshrew.

My Flo can react Lilly. 99% of the time it's when she has been provoked by another dog as is the same with peppa. We manage situations by avoiding potential conflicts that we see upcoming by switching routes. This of course isn't very easy on a canal path I appreciate.

peppa sounds like she is a very well behaved girl and she shouldn't have her fun walks compromised by someone else's thoughtless actions i.e. other owners that demonstrate no regard for the personal space that other owners dogs may need, however, I agree with the others that when it's ball play time, ensure if you can that there aren't other dogs about that might want to cause a rumble over the ball.

Rachels comment about Staffies not being particularly suited to dog parks is certainly in part true as this is where most bad interactions are going to happen, you can manage it though. Flo's big park is without doubt a dog park and there are often packs over there which is always a worry for me but, we do manage it and have very little problem.

the other 1% of Flo's agressiveness where it isn't managed as easily is where we look for the signs like Jshrew suggests. these signs range from the stare off to a full on hackles are up. I have never once worked out why at 100 meters she can take an instant dislike to a dog that she has never met !. In these situations we use a distraction. Flo Loves her stick and it has worked for us 100% of the time though it doesn't sound like you have this issue

I think the main thing for you to do is manage where the ball play is so that potential issues are kept to the bare minimum as this seems to be the catalyst on both occassions.

Just a thought, canals often have hedges on one side and water on the other making for a narrow footpath. Dogs who do not know each other can become either scared or more alert if they feel they have not got room to safely manevoure around each other as they read each others body language.

Pink is happy to play with just about any dog daft enough to join in. Howevere, if I need to take Pink down a narrow alley or path where another dog is comming the other way I wait till the other dog and owner are through. Pink has never gone for another dog even when provoked and even bitten but her muscled size and confident move down a limited space can spook a less confident dog into fear aggression. Even a couple of normally friendly dogs can find a tight space where they need to get past another dog scary and liable to make them behave in ways we would prefer they did not.

Perhaps plan walks round wider paths where there are passing spaces so dogs can safely move around yours without being in each others personal safe space or walk the canal at a time less dog owners are out and about.

I think the key message from advice above is that although you know Peppa is not aggressive you have no idea what other dogs are like and how responsible thei owners are or whether their owners know about body language and bull breeds as a whole. Rachel's advice above is invaluable. If you don't want Peppa to get into fights don't let her interact too much with dogs she doesn't know. A sniff and a hello then walk on that way you are less likely to get into these situations. Don't take strangers word for it that their dogs are friendly because unless you know the person or dog yourself you just don't know unless you are willing to trust a stranger. Also I think he other point made is that these bad interactions could cause Peppa behavioural problems in the future. She's a well rounded girl right now why risk it

Lots of great advice above and I really would just say to be careful when meeting others. We have always said that Bane is a giant softy and friendly and he has surprised us on a couple of occasions when he has gotten possessive over something or reacted unexpectedly. All it takes is just that one thing to trigger a reaction that could be devastating.

I've spoken to so many people in the area with staffs or bull breeds and the most common reason as to why they are reactive is because they had been attacked previously.

thanks everybody for your support its so frustrating he situations we
are not able to control ill try to better avoid( such as the canal) them to the best of my ability let you know how it goes.

Seems like both fights were caused by a toy? To be honest I would remove any toy when a dog comes towards your dog, let them play and if you see she doesn't want to play put her on the lead or just walk away from that dog.

Bane wrote:

I've spoken to so many people in the area with staffs or bull breeds and the most common reason as to why they are reactive is because they had been attacked previously.

That's such a good point. Many 'aggressive' dogs are in fact defensive, but that's how a dog will defend itself, especially if on lead. The problem, of course, is that other owners don't see that, they see a horrid staffie.

There's some great advice above, though, and above all keep cool - frustrating for this sort of situation is an understatement but don't let that frustration seep into Peppa's interaction with other dogs as they do pick up on that sort of thing. Keep calm, smile serenely... then come on here and let off steam!