Starting to be scared to take my Staffy X out

I have a rescue Staffy X (x poss English Bull Terrier, but only a little, mainly Staffy). He is guessed to be around 2 years of age, and still has his balls for want of a better way of saying it! I have only had him 5 days and he is an absolute poppet in the house. However once we go out it is not good. He came from the rescue with half choker and halter. First time pulled so much he was choking (he didn't pull when I took him out from the rescue). Obv didn't let him off as all new. Next day we managed to get the field when dog free and I let him off which he really enjoyed. Saw a big dog coming so put him on the lead and shouted out to owner that I had a rescue and was unsure how he was with other dogs. She didn't do anything, dog came over and my boy absolutely lunged and went for him - I guess it was more baring teeth rather than trying to bite. I shouted and she got her dog and we got them apart. I spoke to her briefly, and as we went to leave he made another lunge for him.

Took the choker off, less pulling, though still pulling me a lot (I am a small female!!). Again managed to get park dog free so let him off and threw the ball, fantastic. He was totally focused, coming back and generally having a great time. Then he spotted a rabbit and all helll broke loose. Anyway, he didn't get it and I got him back but to be honest it frightened me to see him like that and I had absolutely no control whatsoever.

This afternoons walk and he is again loving his ball. The past few walks I just changed direction if saw dog/s and he just ignored them. This time he suddently focused on two little dogs quite far away (prob thought they were squirrels or rats!) and he went hell for leather over to them. I really thought.. this is it he is going to kill one. He called and called and ran after him shaking treat box... the dog just totally submitted to him, he stood there a moment and then came flying back to me. After deep apologies to the owner we made hasty exit. I took him away from the area to a place he hadn't walked and he became a bit of a nervous wreck. Frightened at everything, and pulling my arm off. We must have looked like a complete out of control nightmare.

Anyway, I cannot keep him on hte lead all the time because not only does he totally do my shoulder and hands in, but also it would not be enough exercise for this lad. I'm now feeling scared to take him out and that he is going to attack another dog. Me being scared will obv make him worse. I have had dogs before, but not a staffi, nor a rescue, and I feel out of my depth.

Lastly, at home, he is just a wee bit in love with me (mutual feeling!!) though I am worried he is going to get possessive of me. It is just me and my son, who is 12, and although my staffi is good with him, they don't interact that much as he prefers to hang with me.

Phewf! Massive offload there. I am scared to take him out. I love him to bits in such a short time but I am seriously considering sending him back (he is currently on a weeks trial). That woman could have probably had me arrested today for having a dog dangerously out of control, and if my lad did bite anyone/thing - well I suppose that would seal his fate.

Please help!

Hi welcome to the forum.

This is all new for you and your rescue so you will need to build mutual trust. I rescued and had similar issues but have found ways to avoid and manage situations.

There are some great collars that others use but can't remember what they are but they manage the pulling. To be honest, I think that's the easy bit. The harder bit is that your going to have to go back to basics with the training. This will build confidence with both of you, especially if you can get great recall. In the meantime try a long leash, I used a 20ft one but others have used longer.

I'm sure others will post further help and I will try and find the name of the collar that others use in the meantime.

When you get a min, pop along here and say Hi:-
https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/f7-new-member-introductions

I didn't manage to find the name of the collar yet but did come across this thread, well worth looking at:-
https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/t59380-collar-and-lead-vs-harness

Halti? Pinch collar?

Don't be scared its early days just keep training him and use the long lead meanwhile . He didn't actually attack any other dog and about chasing the rabbit it's very normal for staffies as they have high pray drive.

Thanks Ian - realise it will take time. He seems more responsive/respectful to men. Guess he was a mans dog.

Just looked at pinch collar ouch!!!
Halti possibly
My main concern is what he will actually do to another dog and keeping him on a lead because of this. I can't live like that. I now realise I was totally ignorant when getting the dog -stupid owners as usual.

Don't be hard on yourself, it's a learning curve. It took me 2 years to fully trust my girl but that was mainly because she's deaf.

Slow small steps is what you need. Build the trust and the confidence will come. You will never find a more loyal, cuddly breed, they just want to please. You will get to the off lead just take it slowly with the recall training.

You wouldn't believe how many come here and say they can't cope at first. Within a very short time they all say they wouldn't be without.

only wish i had this forum 9 and a half years ago crikey could have done with the help then was up the creek without a paddle thankfully it worked out in the end.

Peppa - pinch collars strongly go against the ethics of this forum, and the training methods that we promote. They are a painful aversive, and not something that we would ever recommend.

To the OP- you are going to have limited control with a choke chain, I used a halti when my dog was fresh out of kennels and reactive to EVERYTHING, it was a life saver. Also, don't let him off lead for now. You can buy a 50ft long line on eBay and attached it to a harness (could damage his neck if attached to a collar and got jolted) so that he can still play ball, but you can practise his recall and if it comes to it, reel him in if there's another dog about. Continue to warn dog owners that you're still getting to know eachother and not let their dogs approach if his body language isn't relaxed or positive. Which rescue centre did he come from? They should have a behaviourist that could come and visit if you're having problems, but if they sent him home on a choke chain I'm not sure how nice their training methods may be - be careful

R.E your son - get him more involved ASAP. Get him feeding, playing with toys (at home, providing the dog is not possessive) and training obedience with food (against providing the dog is not possessive) etc - make it all fun and positive and nice for all involved, but do get him involved.

As well as some of the training ideas above (but NOT the pinch collar), the other thing I'd suggest is that you contact the rescue centre. Any reputable rescue centre should be there for you after you've taken one of their dogs. They often have a trainer they can recommend, or may have found things that your dog responded positively to while with them.

On the collar vs harness question, I agree with the majority of harnesses but have found the Mekuti to be very different in the way it works and the response from the dog, because clipped on round the front it can unbalance and spin the dog away from where he's trying to go.

I personally dislike Halti's - a sharp pull can do damage to the neck.

Do contact the rescue centre first though, vidavooz. You shouldn't need to work through this alone.

Thanks for all your replies guys. I feel less isolated with it. Unfortunately reaction of family and friends has been a bit 'well, you got a staffi....'

Glad that the pinch collar is not recommended - looks horrendous! I have looked at a halti and I may get one to take him to the local playing field which he is now used to. However, he was so scared going somewhere new yesterday I don't think I could put it on for that as I think he would get more into a state.

I have phoned the rescue place twice in 4 days! The first response was hugely unhelpful but second time I spoke to the manager who was helpful and said that he had been socialised but only with other dogs on leads.

I just feel awful as I really had no idea owning a Staffi may mean keeping them on the lead for 2 years and so on. I had heard all the Staffies are given a bad name by some owners and from that kind of believed he would be just like any other dog. Which just makes me feel worse and he is sooo happy at home here and such a super good boy (he has obviously had a lot of training in the house... though too harsh I imagine as sometimes he really cowers) and the thought of sending him back into kennels seems just utterly cruel to him.

I have brought a long line, though I only got a 10metre, haven't used it yet. My concern is that if he bolted like he did yesterday with that on there is no way I could hold him.

I will phone the rescue place again today

Rachel33 - wanted to send you private message as in same area as you but can't find how to do it!

I'm really annoyed maybe you bother to read before you are trolling somebody. Rachel b4 you jump where did it say I recommand on pinch collar? I've never used one nor needed to. I trained peppa and my other dogs conventionally. But from what I know it's similar to half choke that can be as dangerous it being left on the dog and just look more innocent. It isn't.
The collar names were a message to Ian that I would send privately if I could.
If I recommand the technique I would have said it as it is glad you had a bonding experience .

Confused! I'm a troll? Er, whatever!

I have taken the choker off him (I am probably not using the correct term, it is a fabric lead with a loop that goes over head, so if he pulls it tightens round his neck - he is better without it)

At the mo I just have a harness on him but am going to end up with dislocated shoulder. Thats a training thing I know. I'm more scared about him attacking other dogs and I just didn't realise I may have taken on a dog who can't be let off the lead

Rather than staffies not being like any other dog, I'd say rescues aren't like dogs who have been brought up, socialised and trained in the same family for all of their lives. Staffies are special, of course, but every breed has its own characteristics which make them what they are.

We have had rescues for years, and we are always very careful when first letting a dog go off lead. You just don't know what they'll do. The safest is always to assume the worst and work from there. That doesn't mean you have to keep the dog on the lead for 2 years, but it might mean keeping it on the lead for a few weeks until he's settled down and knows you, and until you have a bit of basic training in place.

It's worth hunting around for places that are less open and maybe less frequented, even if that means driving to get there. Things like canal towpaths can be good as they keep the dog restricted to a narrow channel. Places like that can let the dog learn to be off lead without him being able to charge around unchecked.

Many rescue dogs, and this is sadly more often true for staffs than for more popular breeds like labs, are in kennels for quite a while. I go weekly to the local RSPCA centre to do the website photos, and you can see the change in some dogs quite quickly. They go from confused to frustrated, and after a while some stress behaviours will kick in.

When you take a dog from that environment, they can get very excited about being out, all the new things, and the freedom. And, of course, not being surrounded by 40 other barking stressed dogs.

If your dog has been socialised with others on lead, then stick with that for the time being. Let him settle down doing things he knows how to cope with first. Maybe ask a friend who has a quiet dog if you could start walking with. Walk along side each other but at a few feet distant so they're not actually with each other, and ask both dogs to ignore each other. When yours is walking nicely, praise him and give him a treat. Let him know that's the way he should do it. If that works, build up from there. Different dogs and, when he's settled, let them get closer but keep asking for no interaction. That's what he needs to learn - other dogs can be there and he doesn't need to worry about them.

I have to say I'm not keen on the idea of long line for general walking, especially in conjunction with a halti. You could have serious damage to his neck it he took off at speed and then hit the end of the line. I'm a huge believer in the power of leadership, so if you do let him have some length of line it needs to be as a reward for good behaviour, and the rest of the time he should be walking under your leadership. Long lines can be great for recall training, though.

By the way, I've just reread your first post. I'm amazed he's not been neutered! Any good rescue centre should do that and not rehome entire dogs. I'd suggest he needs castrating asap.

Hi Liz - if we keep him we will be given a voucher towards neutering.

I would use the long line on his harness, not a halti. My problem with keeping him just on a lead at the moment is that it is really not a good experience, he is pulling my arm off and I can't give him the exercise he needs doing that. I should say I take him to the most dog free area I can and he has been off the lead for around 40mins several times where he is running with sheer joy after his ball, coming back to me beautifully every time and generally loving it. Other dogs have been around but he has ignored them. I do wonder as it was the same day whether he thought he had see the rabbit he chased earlier!

What is advice about him becoming a nervous wreck when going somewhere new? I will obv limit it but I want to walk him on the beach as where I take him is getting more and more flooded.

Also, he is white and black and around his mouth he is very pink and its looking a bit sore - any advice? Thanks

Opps, I think I may have caused some confusion between peoples replies. Peppa was answering my lack of knowledge of collars etc. in no way would anyone on the Forum suggest using a Pinch collar. My lack of knowledge is down to getting Flo as a rescue and not realising the different types. I worked hers out by trial and error.

Please don't think it will take you two years to train either. It took ME that long to trust my Flo only because she is Deaf.

It sounds like he's half way there with the training and it just needs polishing up. You say that he's full of life and happy when away from other dogs and has good recall when playing. This sounds really positive. My Flo can be temperamental with other dogs and like yours, she is fine with others on lead but doesn't like to be bothered by off lead dogs. We have her off lead on all park walks and only put her on the lead when we see others on lead, this is out of courtesy to them.

If we happen across a potential issue we distract her with her favourite toy, this happens to be her artificial stick, before she can react. This works 100%. In your training it might well be a good idea to use this too. I know others use the "focus on me method" with great effect also.

As for the nervousness of new places, again this will just take time for him to trust you. I'm sure it isn't a permanent thing. With the pinkness around the mouth, is he rubbing it with his paws? It could be a reaction to the food he's having. If it really is sore then this might well be something only a vet can offer advice on.

This was one of the posts I thought might help you with the pulling:-

by Lynn&Pete on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:57 am

We used a half check on our old boy and he was great, so started off with the pup on one. 90% of the time she is great on it but as soon as she's within 30 feet of anything with a face she is almost uncontrollable. I have never liked harnesses but we took her to the pet shop and tried a sporn non pull harness. We walked her around the shop a few times and she was more than happy with it. She walks great with it and now the lunging has virtually gone and she's happy enough to run around with it on when she is off lead.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kHsdufavf4E


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vaXUffyeAO0

They are £16 in pets at home or £12 in pet hut.
Pete

Think there has been a lot of confusion on this thread - apologies Peppa.

Everybody will have different training methods - and each dog will take to them differently. The most important thing is that they are balanced, safe and positive. IMO, any training tool can do damage used dangerously - I like halti's for some dogs, I found it worked really well with my dog as she is a lunger, and when on a collar/harness she could reach the trigger with ease. I used it more for a safety point of view, but I do also think that they have a place in training. I haven't needed to use mine long term, as I trained Biscuit at the same time and she now knows her commands. I used the halti for road walking, would never attach a line to one. I now walk Biscuit on a wide set padded collar and padded harness with a double ended halti lead attached to both for control - works well for us !

I use a long line (attached to a harness) as will lacking exercise the behaviour is much, much worse. Once Biscuit has had a good run around and gotten the pent up tension/energy out of her system, she can learn. Also would say that the freedom should only be given in quieter places - I wouldn't put him on a long line in a dog park! Or ever really take him to a dog park for that matter.

Where abouts in Devon are you? The forum doesn't allow private messages but I could possibly point you in the direction of some help. I've worked in lots of kennels in Devon and have some good contacts

Apology accepted rach. Maybe it's time the forum would allow private messaging . I do think in general some training tool can be helpful but just in capable hands otherwise only more damage can be done for already stressed dogs.
Vidavooz when u trained peppa or have other dogs i dont know well I use a gated area in the park that is very quiet Any chance you have a place like this in your area?

Ian - I looked at the you tube clips - thanks. That is exactly what I have on him, no idea what actual name is as it was given to me by the rescue. This mornings walk it got soaked and mud caked so I washed it and it wasn't dry for afternooon walk so I took him out just with normal collar and lead as it is only down the road before I can let him off for ball chasing. That was a mistake! He was crouched low to the ground dragging me along. Anyways, if I keep him will be getting another harness so if one is wet I have a spare!

Peppa - I don't know any enclosed areas around here and I have asked around. The area I walk him now is close to the close and is a massive area that has probably about 6 rugby pitches on it so loads of space. I constantly scan horizon for dogs and re-route. Though I noticed others are avoiding us too - good!

Bit rubbish about no private messages. Not hugely keen to put more details on here as I know a staff member from the rescue is on here. I contacted them again today and not at all impressed with response.

I just think this lad needs a more confident/experienced owner as he is no doubt picking up on me being scared and I don't want to make him worse. Breaks my heart as he is an utter baby in the house. He is currently flaked out on his bed (which he adores), next to the radiator happy as anything. A few mins ago, he got up, came over to give me some love, and went back to crash out again. Love this baby!

I do hope you can see a way forward and things get easier. Let us know how you get on and if you decide to keep the little snuggle monster.

vidavooz wrote:
I just think this lad needs a more confident/experienced owner as he is no doubt picking up on me being scared and I don't want to make him worse. Breaks my heart as he is an utter baby in the house. He is currently flaked out on his bed (which he adores), next to the radiator happy as anything. A few mins ago, he got up, came over to give me some love, and went back to crash out again. Love this baby!

It may well turn out that that's the case, but don't give up yet.

As Ian says, it sounds like you've got a lot of positives already. Good recall can take some dogs ages to learn, so you've already got that big one ticked off the list.

One thing I personally would suggest trying is to incorporate some more structured training into your off lead time. If you think about it, from your dog's point of view he is being told that while he's off lead he can run around and chase things (ball, rabbit, dog...). I can be hard for animals to understand our shades of grey, in this case that it's ok to chase one thing but not another.

We obviously don't want to stop chasing balls, it great fun for him, a good release of energy and a time that you can see you boy really enjoying himself. What I would think about, though, is to have a 5 minute ball play, then ask him to do some heel work using high value treats to encourage him to your side. Lots of praise for getting it right! Then given him some free, ball chasing time as a reward, then ask him to do some more 'work'. As well as heel work, you can include 'watch me' which I find invaluable, 'leave it', and 'wait'. I'd leave sit and down for the time being as they're not so relevant to your problem.

If you can teach him to switch on and off as you choose during fun play time with a ball, you'll stand a better chance of him doing the same for you with a dog.

The other thing this should help is in managing the expectation that at this place I always run around in a state of high excitement. He needs to understand that he can do that, but as and when you say it's ok.

With respect to yourself, it's hard to know what you can do without meeting you, but I think it's within us all to do more than we believe. I'm about 5'4 and slightish build and not always the best of health, but I worked with 17hh horses. The one thing that can help more than anything else if you're getting pulled by an animal is simply to stop. While you keep going forwards, the animal will continue to pull from a position of strength, regardless of what sort of collar/harness you have on. When you stop, you can go to walking step by step if needed, explaining that pulling gets you nowhere.

That change in yourself can sometimes have a dramatic effect on the animal, who no starts to see you as someone to listen to and believe in.

One thing that key to an animal pulling is the instinct to pull against a pull. Try it with a human, each holding one end of a lead or line. If one person pulls you, you automatically want to pull back, it's an instinctive reaction. Dogs are the same. To avoid that, it can really help to use a check-check rather than a pull, a bit like abs brakes. That give the dog nothing to pull against.

At the same time, with a dog you can use treats to help put him in the right place. We use dried sprats as they stink to high heavens and the dogs love them! When he's where you want him, you can praise and reward.

It's really helpful to start this sort of thing in the garden, or just walking up and down the road. If you walk back and forwards just a couple of times, the dog will often stop pulling as he's not quite sure where he's supposed to be pulling to!

I should repeat I'm not a dog trainer, so these are just things I've found through my horse training and through having owned several not terribly easy (read blinkin' difficult!) dogs.

With some bits and pieces like this, you then have things you can do simply at or near home, that you can both learn to do well. When something goes right like this, remember it, fix it in your mind and have that memory to remind yourself what you CAN do. It's so easy to feel down about what you can't do, and so easy to forget to feel good about what you can do. Feel good about the positives and know that those things are there to help you when you have a wobble.

Great advice from everyone and completely agree with rachel get your son involved asap :-) hope everything goes well for yoi, staffordshire bull terriers are such a loving breed and when treated correctly you will get so much back from the effort you put in

Thanks Liz for your great post. Lots of food for thought there. I will try to get some sprats or something super tasty as at the moment when I want to give him a treat for coming straight back to me he doesn't want to drop the ball to have it!!

Today we had a breakthrough. My son and I were happily exercising him with the ball when a big boxer came bounding over (I shouted out to owners!). My lad was too far away for me to get him so I just had to stand back and call him. The circled each other, both a bit bouncy and jumpy but he then just turned around and ran back to me with his ball. The other dog stayed round for a bit and even stole his other ball and he was good as gold. Didn't even seem to notice him! See, it was the silly owner after all. We then took him off through the woods to another field and he was good as gold. He ran ahead with my son and then would come pelting back to check if I was coming!!!

Also, this weekend he has spent lots of time with my son playing, just hanging in the garden and using my son's lap as a pillow so I don't have any more worries about that.

Think I will try to book in to have him castrated at the end of the week (poor boy!) so we are around on weekend to give him lots of love and care

Thanks to all of you for your support from me and my big baby boy (the dog not my son!!)

Thata great news! Keep up the good work, you will find you will have good days and bad days but who doesnt!

Ah great news... I'm so pleased to hear you've had a really great weekend. They surprise us on so many occasions

Glad you've had a good weekend! I understand that you feel that he may be better with a different owner - however, you could BE that owner with the right guidance. We all have to start somewhere, and IMO dogs are great teachers I learnt everything from my girl, Biscuit is my first dog as an adult and she came to me with every behavioural problem going lol! As long as you keep him and others safe, you can learn with him! As well as hopefully the help of the forum, a behaviourist of you can contact one and books!! There's so much info online too for basic training.

Woohoo! Fab news! I can feel your grin from here

These things are pure evil (especially as I'm veggie), but the dogs adore them

http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dog_treats_chews/trixie/trixie_treats/47245

Very good value too, because they're light you get a lot in a bag.

Still going fantastic with our lovely boy (pic now added!). He was off the lead for an hours walk this morning and was absolutely brilliant. Lots of dogs around and he just wasn't interested, having too much fun squirrel hunting and chasing his ball. If he goes ahead he keeps looking back to check I am there and comes flying back to me when I call him. Happy days

Brilliant, so pleased things are going great and what a good looker he is

Good to hear things have turned

oh that is good news! Are you feeling more relaxed now as well?

Great news! Sounds just like my peppa. So happy for you.

Yes I am much happier. He has dogs racing up to him and sometimes he races up to others and absolutely no problems at all. Phewf! We love our little man

He's a beautiful boy and made up for you that he's settling in so well and you and your son are enjoying having him in your family!