Seizures - not a great couple of days for Marquez :( UPDATED WITH POSSIBLE CAUSES & TREATMENT

First topic message reminder :

So starting Tuesday evening until about 45 minutes ago, Marquez has had 7 seizures that I've witnessed throughout the day, possibly one during the night of Tuesday/Wednesday and possibly 2 last night from between 9.30pm when we went to bed until 5.30am when we wake.  The ones during the night last night must have been bad as he had peed his bed which he hasn't done before.  Yesterday we went to the vet and she gave my valium to put up his rectum during a seizure which I had to do on the way home at 11am when he had another.  The valium has worked very well in lessening the severity and length of the seizures and making his recovery faster but we still can't understand the sudden cause of them after his first 3 almost a month ago.

His checkup at the vet yesterday didn't come up with anything and he seemed fine but clearly something isn't.  What triggered this last bout?  The vets seem to think that my husband going away for a couple of days then coming home triggered them this time, just like it happened that first time when they started after we both came back from business overseas. We personally believe that the vaccine he had to get in the boarding kennel a few days before may have been a contributing factor as well.   My daughter and I are heading off to australia on sunday for 5 days so if he does get over the seizures today or tomorrow, there is a strong chance that they may start up again next friday when we get back.

So we've been trying to wrack our brains and trying to come up with other likely possible causes and the only other one we can think of is low blood sugar.  He's been eating raw for about 6 weeks.  He's not been getting any carbohydrates with his meat whereas before with his grain free kibble, he was getting sweet potato and chickpeas which was in there.  During this last seizure, I gave him some honey in the side of his mouth (along with the valium) and his recovery period was even quicker than the valium alone.

Other than getting further tests to check thyroid as well as liver & kidney function, we're at a loss at what to do in trying to find out the causes.  Just hope our boy recovers soon and that we find a cause.

Paws and claws crossed here Diane

Half the battle is finding the cause isn't it. Could still be missing the hubbie though. Hugs Diane x

flowerbud wrote:Half the battle is finding the cause isn't it. Could still be missing the hubbie though. Hugs Diane x

Could still be missing him but it never happened before this way - it was always when he came back or like last time, after he left. Will find out what happens next tuesday when he does get back though.
So far so good and still no more seizures. Will be sleeping downstairs tonight though to keep an eye on him.

Are you keeping a diary to see if there is a pattern? Was it a very hot night out there? Sorry don't know what else to suggest x

flowerbud wrote:Are you keeping a diary to see if there is a pattern? Was it a very hot night out there? Sorry don't know what else to suggest x

I've been keeping a record on an Epilepsy app as well as written records in his vaccination book in the back and marking it on a vertical calendar to see if there is a pattern. Normally heat would be concern but he lives inside in the air conditioner and only goes out to go to the toilet because it is pretty warm and humid here. His walks have been in the morning when its been a lot cooler and late in the afternoon if he hassles me to go out. He's watered down on his walks too to make sure that he doesn't overheat. This single episode has really thrown the idea of my husband being the cause - all past episodes have included more than 1. I have noticed the intensity and recovery periods have lessened and improved since I started him on seizure support homeopathy.
He had another rabies vaccine exactly 3 weeks ago and 2 sets of seizures since. His first lot of seizures also happened a few days after a vaccination. I do have him on a vaccine detox so maybe these are also helping in lessening the severity and frequency of the seizures.

Great idea keeping a record   sorry to hear it's happened again though, big hugs   xx

Good thing is that he made it through the night with no more seizures!!! Maybe its the vaccine detox working to get all that crap out of his system and repair whatever damage they cause. So glad that it was a one off this time round and hopefully no more come

Sorry to hear that it happened again! I really hope you can figure it out soon, poor Marquez!

Oh no, just when you thought you had found he trigger too   

Has he been fine since the last episode Diane ?

Only that episode at 4.30am Ian and no more which has been different from every single episode where he had more than one. Hoping that its the vaccine detox slowly working and getting rid of and repairing the damage of that latest rabies vaccine.

How has he been Diane? Xx

No more since that one off Sazzle. Hubby gets back on Tuesday so I'll see what happens.

Everything crossed Diane xx

Yes fingers crossed xx

33 hours after hubby gets back and he's had a seizure at 1.40am this morning. We really thought he wasn't going to get one after he made it through 24 hours without one. He was unsettled when I put him to bed and I thought maybe he wasn't too happy that I had moved his crate from the spot he's been sleeping in for the past couple of weeks but because of jetlag and his whining, hubby went downstairs to eat, watch some tv and let him out of his crate for a bit and 30 minutes he had the seizure. Hubby said that once he gave him the valium he totally settled down and went back to sleep in his crate no problems. He was fine when I came downstairs at 5.30am and there were no more signs that he had a seizure while we were sleeping and he seems normal again this morning.
Hopefully this will be one off episode like his last one.

I hope so hun x

Aww Marquez I really do hope it's another isolated one off Diane

I wish it was Hayley He had one on the way to the vets at 9.30am to get blood drawn for his rabies titer test and just had another now at 2pm. This last one was a bad one and he's really dazed which could also be the affect of the valium. Poor Shane is feeling so guilty because it does look like he's the trigger for the seizures
We're considering using phenobarbital to control the seizures now because we really don't know what else to do. The fact that we'll be moving and Shane will be fly in and out regularly is a real concern so we have to get this controlled and Marquez stabilised asap.

Fortunately no more seizures since 2pm yesterday.  Fingers crossed that that they are over until next time.

Everything crossed for you Diane x

So far so good and still no more seizures

Oh Diane you all must be distraught for your boy, your in my thoughts, everything crossed he's settled now love xx

So sorry to hear he's been bad again   
  xxx

Must be very frustrating Diane. Hope you can find something that will help   

Well Marquez had a seizure yesterday afternoon at 3.20pm and what we suspect was another in the early hours of this morning as his towels had pee on them which he usually does during the seizures. As I've been tracking him seizures on a calendar, the seem to be happening every 3 weeks so the hubbies travelling and his seizures may have just been a coincidence as hubby has been home this time. Vet is saying that it definitely looks like epilepsy so we really have to consider long term medication like phenobarbital. They are still trying to order it from Australia as it is extremely difficult to get here in Indonesia.

So sorry to hear that Diane. Hope they can get the pheno soon then you can get him stabalized. Hugs to you both xx

Ah, sorry to hear that. Hope you sort the meds out soon x

Ahh no I'm really sorry to hear that, at least by determining the pattern they should be able to medicate properly   xx

So sorry to hear that. Though if a correct diagnosis hopefully he will be stabilised and settled very soon. xx

Oh no... Sorry to hear this Diane. Seems as though you might be getting nearer to a diagnosis though and in some small way a relief that it isn't stress related. If it is epilepsy, at least that should be controllable.

Hope you can get it sorted soon.

Thanks guys. Yes now that we're seeing a pattern and that it may not be stress related after all makes things a bit better but it would still be nice to find out the cause. We (and the vets) were really concerned it was stress and we weren't too sure how he would react when 1. we fly to europe for our move during summer and 2. hubby being away for long periods for work - but seeing that this may not be the case now, we're not so worried.

His reaction to the kennel cough vaccine definitely looks to be the culprit as he had his first seizure days after getting that vaccine. He hadn't had a seizure before that. Will be interesting to see when the seizures happen again as he hasn't had any more since that last one in the early hours of saturday morning. Should probably wait another 3-4 weeks before he starts the pheno just to see what happens and before we start him on long term treatment.

poor Marquez give him an extra hug from me

So sorry to hear that! I really hope it gets sorted soon so he can get on the mend Big snugs from Bane and I! Get well soon Marquez!

Its really sometimes - I hope you get it sorted - such a worry Xx

Can you get a drug called pexion for him?  Takes about 12 weeks to get the dog stabilised but it does seem to work - for some anyway and it's gentler than the barbs so can be used long term.  
The fitting is just the worst thing ever - I feel for you x

Morgaine wrote:Can you get a drug called pexion for him?  Takes about 12 weeks to get the dog stabilised but it does seem to work - for some anyway and it's gentler than the barbs so can be used long term.  
The fitting is just the worst thing ever - I feel for you x

I can ask our vet about Pexion. I've never heard of it but if it's effect and gentler on the body, I would definitely prefer it for him. Thanks for the suggestion

Gosh, thinking of you all ! x

Aww Diane your in our thoughts love xx

Before Xmas I thought I'd lose Gypsy because her fits didn't seem to respond to drugs and were getting worse with each cluster. I had a couple of horrid days with weird mini fits. She had started pexion (relatively new drug) early October and was still having fits. I agreed to try again at the highest level of pexion for her weight but expected more fits over xmas. They didn't come - she's not had any this year. She's fat because she also has epiphen at a low dose. She can behave strangely and she's not very keen on exercise most days. She also sleeps very deeply. But - she seems to be quite happy. The walks that she does enjoy are full of fun. She's learned to retrieve and play ball without eating it in 3 seconds and recently has decided to swim. It's her 8th birthday today. I didn't think I'd see this day and I'm convinced its the pexion. She had a check up last week and has no ill effects despite being on a high dose.

So pleased Gyspy is doing well on pexion. She seems to have a new lease of life. May it continue and hopefully the times she is down will be few and far between xx

Morgaine wrote:Before Xmas I thought I'd lose Gypsy because her fits didn't seem to respond to drugs and were getting worse with each cluster.  I had a couple of horrid days with weird mini fits.  She had started pexion (relatively new drug) early October and was still having fits.  I agreed to try again at the highest level of pexion for her weight but expected more fits over xmas.  They didn't come - she's not had any this year. She's fat because she also has epiphen at a low dose.  She can behave strangely and she's not very keen on exercise most days.  She also sleeps very deeply.  But - she seems to be quite happy. The walks that she does enjoy are full of fun.  She's learned to retrieve and play ball without eating it in 3 seconds and recently has decided to swim.  It's her 8th birthday today.  I didn't think I'd see this day and I'm convinced its the pexion.  She had a check up last week and has no ill effects despite being on a high dose.  

Thanks for sharing this and glad that Gypsy has been seizure free so far. Some of the sides of Pexion does have me concerned so we still want to rule out other health issues first before going the drug route. As it is, our vets can't get it here and they're still trying to get hold of the pheno which is also very difficult to get so we still have time to try and find out other possible causes. We're waiting to see if he gets more seizures in a couple more weeks which by going by his pattern should happen around the 20th June. Hopefully it doesn't happen but we won't be surprised when it does.

Pexion - according to UK web sites - is very gentle on dogs and there aren't any major side effects. Perhaps you have access to information that I don't?

I fully understand the anticipation of the return of fits "to pattern" and I sincerely hope it's not going to happen. For me it's not the actual fit that's so hard to deal with (and that's bad enough) but the after effects are just dreadful. Seeing my poor girl in a state of agitation mixed with confusion is just heart wrenching. I really do feel for you    

Hi Morgaine,
A lot of the info put out by the pharmaceutical company and vets out there does sound promising but it's what I'm reading from a couple of owners and their observations with their dogs is whats concerning me. It is a new drug so I'm hoping that it does live up to its claims but it wouldn't be the first time that a company has put out a drug claiming it to be safe when months and years down the track it proves otherwise
Saying that I'm concerned about there safety of Pexion, I'm also concerned of the safety of Pheno so it will be a case of finding the lesser of the 2 evils

Here's just a few of the links I've found to worry me.
http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/307211-pexion.html
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_doghouse/a1794262-canine-epilepsy-does-any-one-have-any-experience
http://www.gundogtrainingforum.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=16966&sid=cb8bc7a6e205def2df74c912148b411d

Just sent our vet a message asking if his thyroid had been checked. Apparently in one study, 77% of dogs that have seizures have hypothyroidism so I would like to rule this out. The only symptoms he shows are the seizures, exercise intolerance, lethargy and weight gain (he stopped gaining but still not dropping) despite cutting down his food and keeping on leaner meats, no extra fat or carbs plus 2-3 walks a day (lots of stops for rests, drinks and water cool downs).

If she says that they didn't do a complete thyroid panel on him, I'll take him on monday to get this checked.

Diane, with those symptoms it does sound as if he could have hypothyroidism doesn't it. You might have found the cause of his seizures at last. There are some very good homeopathic treatments too.
Fingers crossed for you xx

silver wrote:Diane, with those symptoms it does sound as if he could have hypothyroidism doesn't it. You might have found the cause of his seizures at last. There are some very good homeopathic treatments too.
Fingers crossed for you xx

It does sound like it but at least it will be something we can rule out once he's been tested. I'm all for treating with homeopathy too and have no doubt there is something to help if it is his thyroid

Well seems like my suspicions were right and Marquez is HYPOTHYROID. Both TSH and FT4 are low. The vet says that this is secondary hypothyroidism as in primary hypothyroidism, he would have an elevated TSH. From my research, secondary hypothyroidism is actually rare and its where the pituitary gland is unable to secrete adequate TSH and accounts for fewer than 5% of hypothyroid cases.

She's got to discuss with the other vets at the clinic what he needs to take but T4 is definitely on the cards. Fortunately we have that at home as I'm hypothyroid too so he can start on that as soon as she gets back with the dosage.

Diane, at last you've got some answers! Will the medication stop the seizures? x

I'm hoping the meds will stop the seizures Annie. Only time will tell I suppose. I'm glad we didn't start him on the phenobarbital too as that would've lowered his T4 levels and made the test levels not really accurate. Fingers crossed that it all works out now.

Fingers crossed for you. It's been a long journey but looks like you finally have an answer