Fits

First topic message reminder :

I posted a little about Gypsy in the new members section where someone suggested I post a bit more here. So here goes.
Gypsy is 7.  Just before her 7th birthday she had an incident that puzzled me and looking back I now recognise it as a mini fit. Basically she had sudden frothing at the mouth and looked very confused.  
At the beginning of August she had her first grand-mal - I took her to the vets and he did blood tests - nothing obvious from those.  She had another at the end of August so I started keeping a diary.  She then had her annual MOT and days later she had her fist cluster set.  4 fits in 22 hours. We went back to the vet and he gave her Pexion.  no fits since until today when she's had two (and I'm dreading another).  I phoned the vet who advised an increase in the Pexion - fingers crossed on that one.  
As I understand it - dogs usually start epilepsy between 1 and 5 years. Starting later as she has suggest something more sinister (I quote my vet here) and my biggest worry is that she has something like a brain tumour that's growing and causing the fits to increase - both in size and intensity. Today she hasn't really seemed right and it's taking hours for her to improve after each fit - by which I mean her balance is still dodgy up to 4 hours later.
Today my googling took me to a place that identifies Staffies as having a form of fit that has the same underlying abnormality as is found in some humans with epilepsy.
I love looking at all the pictures on this site and I thought it was time to join and cry "help" ! Is there anyone out there who understands all this?  
Many thanks

How about pexion and potassium bromide? (Libromide)

My vets is a private practice (Village Vets) and I've stuck with him (them - there are two vets) because I really liked the way he dealt with my previous dogs and their various issues.  I find him straight talking and practical.  
We've not yet encountered diazepam but I know he's leaving me options for the future - basically trying to get control at the lowest possible medication level.
But
I know I'm not a vet or medically qualified yet the history of Gypsy's fits seems to indicate that the underlying condition is deteriorating.  4 years ago my then partner let his Staffy suffer too long ( a tumour) and I now know some of the symptoms of pain etc and I feel I'm beginning to see them in Gypsy. My son says I'm over analysing the situation - he may be right. It's hard to know what changes in character the meds are causing and what are there anyway. As a senior Gyp will potentially have "old age" to take into consideration too.
One thing that's for sure - Gypsy is in a pattern of about 4 weeks
2nd August (single fit), 30th August (single fit) , 6th/7th October (cluster of 6), 1st/2nd November (cluster of 5)  and now today
I don wonder if the inoculations affect the fitting? Gyp's first cluster was days after her annual jabs ......

I'm sorry to hear this, poor Gypsy xx

Firstly, Sorry to hear about gypsy and I really do hope its nothing to serious but thought I would give you some information as I went through something similar.

My staffy bailey had a similar issue was fitting sometimes 3 or 4 a day, these came on suddenly having no real warning he was 7 years old. We took him to our vets who carried out test but nothing came up. He explained that most dogs that suffer from epileptic fits usually do so before they are five.

I was advised that an MRI was needed to see what was happening in his brain. We where given steriods and drugs to reduce any legions if that was causing his fits amd calm him, however unfortunately before we had the chance bailey took a turn for the worse and I had to have him PTS that was just over a month ago. We never found out what was wrong with him and I dont wish to scare you, but my vet said that a dog of that age to start getting fits and all tests that come back negative is not a good indication and he believed it was a tumour.

However this is just what happened to Bailey and im sure there are other illnesses which it could be but I would be asking the vet the hard questions ones which we all hate to hear the answers to when our beloved friends are unwell.

I like you trust my vets whole heartedly and they can only advise you the best they can. I sincerely hope gypsy picks up and I will think of you both as I truely understand what you are going through.

I also apologise if this is blunt but I think a well rounded response is best.

Not all unexplained fitting is down to tumours. Your vet will probably have never heard of L2 HGA, a genetic condition that is prevalent in staffords and so wouldn't have tested for it. In order to test, anyway, he'd have had to send DNA samples off to the AHT for analysis.

Although most epilepsy begins in the first few years of a dog's life, an older dog can develop it.

Im not saying they are as dogs can have idiopathic fits which are unexplainable however the amount of reading I had done in that week was anormous and as you have stated most dogs fit whilst young I did not write the post to scare but to share my experience. I hope that it is something treatable but what I am saying is prepare for things as you dont know. But exhaust all options have the DNA test I would have done but time was to short for me. My vet did state about the defects in the breed but was not convinced it was that.

caveman81 wrote:Im not saying they are as dogs can have idiopathic fits which are unexplainable however the amount of reading I had done in that week was anormous and as you have stated most dogs fit whilst young I did not write the post to scare but to share my experience. I hope that it is something treatable but what I am saying is prepare for things as you dont know. But exhaust all options have the DNA test I would have done but time was to short for me. My vet did state about the defects in the breed but was not convinced it was that.

Absolutely, but Morgaine is already aware of the possibility of a tumour, as stated earlier in the thread...

Morgaine wrote:my biggest worry is that she has something like a brain tumour that's growing and causing the fits to increase

Morgaine wrote:His view is that there is some sort of brain lesion, possibly a tumour, and I'm pretty sure he would not recommend an invasive treatment.  He also tells me dogs don't die of fits

Caveman - I'm really sorry to hear about Bailey - sounds a lot like whats happening to Gypsy - I'm facing changes every 3 to 4 weeks. Always for the worse.
I've had two long conversations with my vet today. Earlier to gain approval for giving the Epiphen I have left over from the previous treatment and later when I went to get some more pills.  Like your vet, mine thinks this is a tumour (or lesion as he calls it) and there is some evidence of deterioration in other ways now. She's a very loving dog - proper Mummy's girl - yet today she almost snapped at my fingers - she stopped but I could see it in her.  Years ago my then partners Staffy (he had tumours in his bowel) used to do that when he was in pain.  There's a lot of similarity between what I see in Gyp now and poor old Sid.
The reason I wanted to get her back on the Epiphen is because she had two more fits in the early hours - and she simply didn't settle. Every time she lay down and tried to rest her breathing would go into staffy snooze mode but her body kept on moving.  The vet thinks that the "electrical" energy that is behind a fit simply didn't stop completely.  She finally fell asleep at 1500 having been on the prowl since 3.30 am. The aim of the Epiphen is to break the cycle of fits.  Give her chance to rest and hopefully brighten up a bit.
I'm sorry to say the prognosis isn't good. Myron (my vet) has run through all the tests that were done and the only thing missing would be a DNA test for the L2HFA - but there's no reason to think she has that (this has already been much discussed). Myron also says he thinks GA to undertake the MRI (which I could press for) would be bad for her.
We are preparing for the worst - and with current timings it'll hit us at xmas.
2013 has been an absolute nightmare - so many deaths and tragedy that have hit me hard.

Morgaine wrote:
We are preparing for the worst - and with current timings it'll hit us at xmas.
2013 has been an absolute nightmare - so many deaths and tragedy that have hit me hard.

This is so sad to hear. Please remember that we're all here for you if you need to talk. 

Thank you - can't talk much for crying right now though.  

I'm sure she's in the best possible hands right now. And she knows it. 

I really feel for you and gypsy. It is such a horrible thing when you powerless to help. The night before I found baily in a coma he was constantly pacing and even bit me he was not really there if you know what I mean.

I was told by my vet that even if we had an MRI all it may do is give us a name to the issue the outcome may still be the same. For me if it would improve the quality of life without putting her in discomfort do it. It may give you some quality time together. I didn't have that chance like I said in previous posts bailey went down hill to quickly.

We can all sit here and say its this or that I personally am not a vet they are the professionals they know whats best and im sure the do not give bad advice as most or animals lovers with only best intentions.

Big hugs your way to you both.

Awww I feel so much for you right now. I know what you mean about timings too. As we also have a 3-4 week in between fits. How the epiphen gives her some rest tonight. X massive hugs

Thank you caveman and Janey.
I'm sorry Bailey (I expected a boy dog??) went so quickly yet part of me wishes for a more positive sign to help my decision.  
I almost chose to have Gyp PTS on Friday - don't really know why I chose to give the drugs another chance but I did. At the time I thought I was buying 2 weekends and planned to make them good ones.
Yesterday I got another reality check.  She's having mini fits and they're quite frequent ( 6 or so an hour).  I know grand mal fits that are close together are dangerous - don't know if that applies to these mini fits as well.  To describe what's happening - we can be out walking and I'll hear her claws scraping where she's suddenly dragging her feet - or, she's walking and stumbles over nothing - or, she's standing and falls backwards.... the worst is the sudden twitching - it's worst because it looks very like it's going to be a grand mal - and then it just isn't.  These twitching episodes started yesterday - they happen at least once every couple of hours and there are usually  5 or 6 in a row.
However:) . We've had a couple of nice walks and today we've been to the beach where a Staffy lover (has two white ones) decided she needed some ice cream - she liked that.  She also liked the carpet fitter who was here on Friday - he was defo in love with her .....
So - I've bought us some happy times.  I'll try to remember this at 4 am (I'm always awake at 4 am listening for a fit) in the hope that I can find some comfort.  I'm facing the end of Gypsy's life.  She was born just as I finished treatment for cancer and she's been close with me through the death of my partner, his dog, my Mum, 2 of my very good friends.  I'm not sure what I can do next apart from try to judge when the time is right to let her go.  I don't see any other outcome and I'm terrified I let her suffer too long .......

Yes ruby does the staggering, falling over nothing, twitching, shaking and the getting stuck in corners and these are part of her condition. Watching The stumbling and falling is the worse as you don't want them to hurt themselves. She goes under the long curtains at the French windows then bangs her head on the windows, table and everything else in her pathway. I too am waiting for the dreaded time... She had a small glimmer of excitement tonight when she had a small piece of crackling.

Oh dear - I'm so sorry for you both. I wish there was a way of "seeing" into the dogs so we could know how they're feeling - it would help us decide.
My eldest son is staying at his partners family home in Sheffield over Xmas - small world eh?
Good luck and keep up the good work  

Janemiles13 wrote: She had a small glimmer of excitement tonight when she had a small piece of crackling.

  

Thank you all for your comments and  support - a question for those of you experienced with dogs that fit - do any of you notice increased head shaking?  I treated Gypsy for the usual ear type issues - the shaking has got worse - is this the tumour?????

Thanks in anticipation fo much support and advise xx

I honestly don't know. I suppose it could be, but I'm sure someone else will be able to be a bit more specific.

I only wish I could help Morgaine, but most fortunately for me I have no experience of fitting dogs. The head shaking does indicate some neurological cause though. Please be guided by your vet, and I wish you and Gypsy the very best of luck in coping with what must be a very distressing time                  

Perhaps Jane may be able to help, love to you and gypsy

I've not noticed an increase in head shaking with ruby she's always been a trembly dog (which we know realise is part of the condition). her behaviour is too changing. She's taken a liking to the cat litter box and also this morning I got up to find she'd weed and pooed in the hallway (eaten most of it)
Is gypsy back on the epiphen?

Bigs hugs to you both

Janey - I'm really sorry I haven't replied to you sooner - I've been scared to come on the site to be honest. Two reason - last time I said Gyp was OK it went pear shaped the day after and I haven't wanted to read any bad news over xmas.
Gypsy is still head shaking a lot - just like when she has ear problems but I've treated her for that - still shaking. Like Ruby Gyp is a trembly sort of dog on a lot of occasions.
Current meds - and so far so good with stabilisation - are 600 mg of pexion over two doses daily plus 30 mg over two doses daily of Epiphen. She sleeps a lot but enjoys most walks.
I know this is vastly different (and yet so similar) to Ruby and I hope you're both OK. xx

Hi morgaine and Gypsy, I know what you mean about reading any bad news over Xmas and when I've just got the notification of your post I held my breath while logging in.
I'm glad gypsy is managing to still enjoy her walks. Ruby's still plodding on, falling more and struggling to get in and out of house. She sleeps too for about maybe 20+ hours a day, the rest is spent circling. I fear that we are on borrowed time and will have to face the inevitable in the coming weeks. hugs to you both xx

I think - on the whole - that Gypsy is on better shape than Ruby - neither dog is "at their best" though and we both know this. Gypsy doesn't circle - she stares - at nothing - or she pulls in a direction on a walk that goes nowhere she knows or intends to be. Being totally honest - I'm delighted that I had my Xmas day walk - one the beach in the sun with my girl I hadn't expected that - best pressie ever. I'm going to see if I can work out how to post a shot of her
I'm so very sorry Ruby struggles as she does. My heart goes out to you xxxx

Yes get some pics up we went to see my sis Xmas eve who has 2 springers and it was lovely although sad to be mauled/licked and peed on with excitement. I miss that most from ruby.

I am so glad that you - Morgaine and Jane - are able to communicate with each other and share; hopefully it helps you both a little in this very sad situation.

I haven't got a magic wand, but if I had I would wave it over you both and your lovely dogs.

I can't say more than to wish you both good luck and strength            

Xmas day


Bemused by the car wash - boxing day


Early xmas morning - watching the world

Awww she's a beauty   

Ah, what a lovely Gypsy!

She's lovely. Looks like she's enjoyed the beach

She loves the beach - so do I but round here dogs are banned in the summer. She's fat though isn't she ? Bless! Pics of Ruby???????
Does anyone know if I can post video clips? If I can I'll show you a glimpse of what she was like 4 weeks ago .....

Aww gypsy is beautiful xx yes you can post video clips via YouTube or photobucket