Worried I've made a mistake

I've got a 14 week old male English Staffy (Diesel) and a 12 week old male Amstaff (Tank). We got the Diesel at 8 weeks and the Tank at 8 weeks so we had the Diesel for 2 weeks before Tank came along.

The first few days Disel was all over Tank, showing dominance behaviour etc but then it died off.

Now I'm getting worried. Most of the time they are buddies but then sometimes it gets vicious. Last night I found scabs all round Diesels neck from Tank biting him. Diesel will sometimes antagonise Tank but when Tank gets the shits he gets quite vicious with him and even me when I break them up.

This is all at 12 and 14 weeks old. I'm worried what will happen when they're fully grown. Is this just a phase I can work on to eradicate or the start of things to come. They aren't desexed at this stage but really what difference at this age would that make anyway? I love them both and would be devastated to lose one but don't want them to get hurt either.

I'm going to have to rehome one aren't I?

have you had staffys before?if you have you will know that they play hard,and the sounds they make sound really bad!your two are just pups so will what to play lots!do you keep them seperate when you go out,if not start to do so,also make sure you supervise their play and when you think it's getting to much stop it.

stella wrote:have you had staffys before?if you have you will know that they play hard,and the sounds they make sound really bad!your two are just pups so will what to play lots!do you keep them seperate when you go out,if not start to do so,also make sure you supervise their play and when you think it's getting to much stop it.

No but I've grown up around friends that have had them. I initially kept them separate when we went out but the puppy school trainer said we should start keeping them together. It pains me to see the wounds on their necks. If I'd known I would always have to keep them separate when out I would have stuck with one. I grew up with two male dogs and never had problems with them, one was a Red Kelpie and the other a Bull Terrier X Cattle Dog. It's quite stressful right now

I've never had two dogs before, but as Stella says Staffords play hard! Can you post a video of their play for us to see? I'm sure someone will be along shortly with 2 dog experience

I would always seperate two bull breeds when they are left alone. I've heard of (and seen) far too many horror stories of one getting the ump with another & it escalating into a fatal fight.

I've got to say that I've never had two pups together, so I'm probably not much help in that respect. What sort of training do you give them & what do you do if you feel that one is being too rough with the other?

As said above, do try to keep them separate when you're not around.

They are very young and play can be extremely rough and loud. What we do with our two is supervise, supervise, supervise. We never let that excitement escalate to a point where it could get "scrappy" which we usually calm down with the diversion of a toy/game or an "enough" command. When they were younger, we'd give them a bit of time out from one another if play was starting to escalate and give them time to chill out.

RoxysMum wrote: When they were younger, we'd give them a bit of time out from one another if play was starting to escalate and give them time to chill out.

 

Caryll wrote:

RoxysMum wrote: When they were younger, we'd give them a bit of time out from one another if play was starting to escalate and give them time to chill out.

 

It may sound like hard work, David, but persistence really can pay off with two staffs. By separating our two as above, it was a great opportunity for my OH and I to spend one-on-one time with each of them and even then we would do a bit of training and play games and they love the individual attention. And now days when they play and the excitement starts to escalate, the "enough" command has them calmly going off to each find a toy to play with!

RoxysMum wrote:It may sound like hard work, David, but persistence really can pay off with two staffs. By separating our two as above, it was a great opportunity for my OH and I to spend one-on-one time with each of them and even then we would do a bit of training and play games and they love the individual attention. And now days when they play and the excitement starts to escalate, the "enough" command has them calmly going off to each find a toy to play with!

Patience, consistency & persistence really do pay off! 

Caryll wrote:Patience, consistency & persistence really do pay off! 

Ought to be a staffy mantra  

You've had great advice from expert owners, David, which I can't add to (especially as I've never had two puppies at once!) but I am sending you all best wishes that by following the advice and endless patience on your part the situation will resolve and you will have two happy, friendly dogs.

Do let us know how you get on ......     

Well I guess it's separation when we're not at home. I stupidly thought getting two they'd keep each other company and be play buddies.

They are great together most of the time when I'm with them. I let them play as puppies do but as soon as they go for the neck or get too rough I step in and let them know I'm the boss and I'm not tolerating it. Diesel is understanding he's in trouble and stops quickly,Tank is starting to get it. They're starting to show more respect to me and following me the way dogs do. It's taking a lot of work and sometimes feels overwhelming but I'm starting to see some results.

If I separate them while at work and then let them be together when I'm around will they be anxious with each other? The puppy school trainer said this will happen.

I've read stories of two pups growing up together and bonding with each other more strongly than their human owners. Can't see any signs of this, they don't need to be in each others pockets and seem to enjoy our company immensely, yearn for our company.

With one being an English Staffy and the other being an Amstaff their personalities are very different. Diesel (English Staffy) is quite clingy and hyper, Tank (Amstaff) is more cool and calm and loves our company but doesn't thrive on it as much as Diesel.

Interesting times ahead.

So I guess what I'd like to know is...If they're separated while we're out for safety are we going to be able to take them places together i.e. beach, parks, camping etc in the future with them enjoying each others company for that period of time? This is very important to us.

Caryll wrote:I would always seperate two bull breeds when they are left alone. I've heard of (and seen) far too many horror stories of one getting the ump with another & it escalating into a fatal fight.

I've got to say that I've never had two pups together, so I'm probably not much help in that respect. What sort of training do you give them & what do you do if you feel that one is being too rough with the other?

If one is being too rough with the other I step in with a growly 'no', pull him off, hold him down with another growly 'no' and if he doesn't settle down put him in time out with a growly 'no'. This is starting to show positive signs, they are settling down quicker after doing this and seem to have a better understanding of the work 'no', or maybe it just the sound and my actions they're understanding!

Darcy-may wrote:I've never had two dogs before, but as Stella says Staffords play hard! Can you post a video of their play for us to see? I'm sure someone will be along shortly with 2 dog experience

Will see if I can get a video of it over the weekend

Diggs wrote:Well I guess it's separation when we're not at home. I stupidly thought getting two they'd keep each other company and be play buddies.

Two pups at the same time is often not advisable. They are difficult to train as you have two at the same stage, and you have to repeat each training session! Also, they can bond more strongly with each other (with the resulting fights, sometimes) than with their humans!

Diggs wrote:If I separate them while at work and then let them be together when I'm around will they be anxious with each other? The puppy school trainer said this will happen.

No, not if they get sufficient time together. ie if they are not left alone for more than a couple of hours or so a day, and are then back together.

Diggs wrote:So I guess what I'd like to know is...If they're separated while we're out for safety are we going to be able to take them places together i.e. beach, parks, camping etc in the future with them enjoying each others company for that period of time? This is very important to us.

If you go for beach walks/parks/camping etc then you will be with them, so being together won't be a problem! 
 

Diggs wrote:If one is being too rough with the other I step in with a growly 'no', pull him off, hold him down with another growly 'no' and if he doesn't settle down put him in time out with a growly 'no'. This is starting to show positive signs, they are settling down quicker after doing this and seem to have a better understanding of the work 'no', or maybe it just the sound and my actions they're understanding!

Please don't do this. If a pup is hyper (which it will be if it's been playing rough) then holding it down will make it defensive & resentful. Either you could get bitten, or you will make your pup fearful. What you are doing is using a 'pack leader theory' method which is outdated and based on flawed research.

The "NO" doesn't need to be growly, just loud enough to be heard & deep enough to mean business.

Great advise from Caryll.

With all the patience and consistency, they are best of friends now and just as happy playing one-on-one with us as they are being together. It all pays off as they mature into well-balanced adults.

Do spend time training them one-on-one as well.

RoxysMum wrote:Great advise from Caryll.

With all the patience and consistency, they are best of friends now and just as happy playing one-on-one with us as they are being together. It all pays off as they mature into well-balanced adults.

Do spend time training them one-on-one as well.

Yes. I do together time training and one on one training. I do seem to be making progress but it's a bloody handful!!

And thank you Caryll, will avoid holding them down for discipline.

good luck with them,im sure with training you'll get there with them and they will be best mates  

Not had 2 pups and best of luck to you , but you will never get 2 staffords live together and not show play injuries at some point in their relationship.
We have only just started leaving our 2 together and only if it is a short period ( 1 hour or so ) as they are pretty chilled , however not all the time and more for the reason that Tommy is a little sod who will destroy possessions ( brushes , socks, shoes, underwear etc etc ) so not fair for Tilly who is a dream to own and couldn't be better behaved to be cut off from the run of the house because her little brother can be a bit naughty

All fab advice above I have never had 2 together so not much use I am afraid. Good luck though