Thoughts on this breeder?

http://www.champdogs.co.uk/breeder/33834

the pup will be 6% (which isn't to bad) but i think the bitch is from a long line of blue let me have cheak

she could be a very good blue line most family are black and blue mating

wait for caryll she may know better


this is the only think i could find on her
http://www.stamtavler.com/dogarchive/details.php?id=136428

Well apparently the litter hasn't been posted yet as it is happening at the end of the month. But I hope this one is going to be the Mother:

http://www.champdogs.co.uk/dog/35612

So we won't know the Mother and Father until I get another reply from the woman . But she lives right near me (A bus away) .
You know a lot about COI :O

that an old one 2008

if baileys blazing x kias black eyed girl two mate the pup will be 2%

And that is really good?

it good but i dont it know if they be health tested

On the first link it says they're tested, so the pups will genetically clear.

Nice bitch - nothing exceptional in her background, but good looking & healthy.

Normal pretty good breeders when you go to champdogs still always good to check

only problem with champdogs their far to many breeders who does close line breeding aka inbreeding

Yes, as Steve says, linebreeding is still carried out by a good many 'good' breeders. Whilst their dogs & pups are very well looked after, many have above average COI percentages.

Well she's fine with me. And she has a litter born at the end of this month of which she is expecting black and blue puppies. I am obviously going to go for a black one to be called Batman....I have already looked at tonnes of "Batman" based dog accessories like collars and harnesses .

She even said she one day plans to breed the white/black eyed girl and will contact me so then I can have the pied one . (In the future). So it's all going awesome . Even getting prepared to order the Eden food .

Good news!

Who are the parents of your pup?

I am not 100% sure to be honest. She's getting back to me about it tomorrow

So, you've agreed to have a pup & you don't even know who the parents are?

Caryll wrote:So, you've agreed to have a pup & you don't even know who the parents are?

i think the breeder has 3 dogs

Maybe, but the COI could be different depending which sire & dam the pup has.

There's no mention of phpv or pspc tests.

It's always best to find out who the parents are

She hasn't posted the litter yet until they're born. But I've messaged her though she's slow with replies and due to the time I doubt I will receive a reply until tomorrow. Though people on here seemed satisfied most of her dogs were good dogs and said she seems a responsible breeder

The bitches are nice, but what about the dog? It all depends on whether there are common ancestors in the dog & bitches' pedigree. If you don't know which dog & bitch she's mated, you don't know if they are inbred or not.

I'll find out for you guys tomorrow

I would like to add on here , that line breeding ( not inbreeding , there is a difference!) is the best way of producing "type" and Quality . Withe the VERY low COI (outcrossing) you really have not much idea what yor dog /bitch will produce. Its like throwing lots of different things in a mixing pot and hoping for the best! A breeder that line breeds and is using Health tested parents .. ie L2/Hc clear and PHPV unaffected PPSC .. will be producing typey genetically clear pups. A good breeder wll know exactly whats behind the breeding they are doing and will have been planning a long time to make sure they breed for health and quality puppies .

Tillcarr wrote:I would like to add on here , that line breeding ( not inbreeding , there is a difference!) is the best way of producing "type" and Quality . Withe the VERY low COI (outcrossing) you really have not much idea what yor dog /bitch will produce. Its like throwing lots of different things in a mixing pot and hoping for the best! A breeder that line breeds and is using Health tested parents .. ie L2/Hc clear and PHPV unaffected PPSC .. will be producing typey genetically clear pups. A good breeder wll know exactly whats behind the breeding they are doing and will have been planning a long time to make sure they breed for health and quality puppies .

But surely all breeders should be aiming to keep the COI below the breed average? If it continues to rise it'll cause problems, and the gene pool is big enough to not need to keep going back to the same ancestors constantly.

There are quite a few beautiful, typey, staffords out there with low COIs.

The KC will no longer allow "in Breeding" which is completely different to "line" breeding ... inbreeding ie mother.father...brother/sister.. father/daughter .. There is also talk of tye KC stopping the mating of half brother half sister ..at the moment this is still allowed.( although too close for me) Line breeding can and has produce excellent puppies. Linebreeding ( not inbreeding) is good for maybe 3 generations and then it is good to introduce and outcross ..Of course this is olny my view and my experience and has always worked for me :-) The main thing with ANY breeding of course is HEALTH TESTING first and knowing whats behind any line you choose to use .With outcrossing you could be introducing traits you dont want , you really need to have done your homework .. It can of course improve your lines .. again if you have great knowledge of whats behind the outcross you plan. Research is the key Found this link ... i know its a lab breeder but explains the differences .
http://www.wylanbriar.com/breeding-advice/breeding-inbreeding-linebreeding-and-outcrossing-explained/

Tillcarr wrote:The KC will no longer allow "in Breeding" which is completely different to "line" breeding ... inbreeding ie mother.father...brother/sister.. father/daughter .. There is also talk of tye KC stopping the mating of half brother half sister ..at the moment this is still allowed.( although too close for me) Line breeding can and has produce excellent puppies. Linebreeding ( not inbreeding) is good for maybe 3 generations and then it is good to introduce and outcross ..Of course this is olny my view and my experience and has always worked for me :-) The main thing with ANY breeding of course is HEALTH TESTING first and knowing whats behind any line you choose to use .With outcrossing you could be introducing traits you dont want , you really need to have done your homework .. It can of course improve your lines .. again if you have great knowledge of whats behind the outcross you plan. Research is the key Found this link ... i know its a lab breeder but explains the differences .
http://www.wylanbriar.com/breeding-advice/breeding-inbreeding-linebreeding-and-outcrossing-explained/

Whats your comfort zone on linebreeding ie how close related would you feel ok

Grandfather to Grandadughter can and has has produced excellent results . Again providing your homework has been done and you know exactly whats behind the breeding and all health tests are in place .. l2/HC clear , PHPV up to date and un affected ..and PPSC clear. I have to say i have done a complete outcross which produced Uk and Aus CH Tillcarr PyroteknicJW and Italian CH Tillcarr Firestorm and Tillcarr Black Betty JW .. but then mating Betty i got a totally "mixed" bag no consistency in type even tho i the tried to breed back into the dams side.

Tillcarr wrote:Grandfather to Grandadughter can and has has produced excellent results .

Too close for me, but I respect your opinion & your dogs are a credit to you!

Thank you Caryll ... and yes its only my opinion and experience Caryll .. as i said i have also done outcross with success but then not so successful when breeding back on from that outcross . Always good to get other peoples opinions and the results produced . In my opinion much better breeding than not knowing anything about the parents /siblings/ grandparents etc.

Has anyone else on here had any experience re breeding on from an outcross mating?

I'm afraid the only experience I've had was many years ago with a Border Collie and a Tervueren!

Both were complete outcrosses, but they were bred mainly for working qualities. All the pups were, however, lovely examples of their breed, although as far as I'm aware only one pup was ever bred from & I never saw her pups.

I have friends with working Springers and they always stick to the working lines and would not use a show springer ..so i suppose in a way its the same principle ... its using the lines that you know will produce whats right for you .. Again cant stress enough the importance of health testing in any planned mating. That way we have the information to carry on breeding for healthy puppies

I agree, health testing is so important!

Tillcarr wrote:I would like to add on here , that line breeding ( not inbreeding , there is a difference!) is the best way of producing "type" and Quality . Withe the VERY low COI (outcrossing) you really have not much idea what yor dog /bitch will produce. Its like throwing lots of different things in a mixing pot and hoping for the best! A breeder that line breeds and is using Health tested parents .. ie L2/Hc clear and PHPV unaffected PPSC .. will be producing typey genetically clear pups. A good breeder wll know exactly whats behind the breeding they are doing and will have been planning a long time to make sure they breed for health and quality puppies .

i'm totally against inbreeding i think it all should of been banned when the kennel club banned mother - son and so on

I agree Steve , the breeding of Mother/son .. Father/ Daughter Brother/ sister ... is way to close for me and i think a good move by the KC IMO .

but half bother and half sister is still allow... kennel club still lot of work

Yep still allowed at the moment. But talk of stopping that as well. Still very close IMO ..I have no doubt that will also be stopped eventually .

i would also like to see stopping registering dogs over 15% on the COI test

Well you could always put your thoughts down in writing to the KC registration dept and to Bill Lambert at the Assured Breeders scheme .

If you feel so strongly about it Steve you should go for it and write to them. The more people that write in and make their feelings known the more chance the KC will take views on board.
Or have you already written to the KC ? if you have have what response did you get ?

telling you the truth till it's very unlikely they will do anything else till there another TV show about them just my opinion.

Might be worth writing, though, just to see if they'll give you their opinion on the matter?

If you want, I could give it a go?

give it a go caryll tell us what they say.

Ok.

IMO no dog breed should be over 25% or even close to it that like 1/4 in bred that can only damage our staffys

Steve wrote:IMO no dog breed should be over 25% or even close to it that like 1/4 in bred that can only damage our staffys

Steve , so you keep saying ! SO write to the KC ..dont leave it for someone else to do ! you wont get anywhere doing that .. Do it .. put your thoughts down and send an email ....


What does damage our precious Staffords reputation are the people breeding for colour and money ... or breeding non reg staffords with no knowledge of background or parentage ,or any knowledge of temperaments being sound no health tests .. The rescue situation is horrendous.

yes i would ban blue to blue mating also

maybe we could all add something to the latter caryll is going

Steve wrote:give it a go caryll tell us what they say.

Caryll , Steve needs to write as well ..i fact all of you that have strong thoughts on this should email, phone or write.

Whats the point airing your views n here and not following it up ??? Go for it!

Tillcarr wrote: or breeding non reg staffords with no knowledge of background or parentage ,or any knowledge of temperaments being sound no health tests .. The rescue situation is horrendous.

that a hard i think they a society problem and you dont want to read my thought about that

Steve wrote:

Tillcarr wrote: or breeding non reg staffords with no knowledge of background or parentage ,or any knowledge of temperaments being sound no health tests .. The rescue situation is horrendous.

that a hard i think they a society problem and you dont want to read my thought about that

we dont have a big enough bandwidth for that convo