Crufts should be banned!!

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Crossguns memphis belle is 20% inbred this is disgraceful

you are always defending them caryll!! crufts could help a hell a lot more by doing a bit of research on the dogs they allow in their shows if you cant see this there really no point in carrying with this topic.

Steve wrote:you are always defending them caryll!! crufts could help a hell a lot more by doing a bit of research on the dogs they allow in their shows if you cant see this there really no point in carrying with this topic.

How can a dog show research 21000 dogs?

What should be happening, is that all potential show dogs should have to pass a medical (at the owner's expense) before entering any shows & a copy of the certificate should be sent with any entry forms. Crufts is a huge dog show, the biggest in the world. It can't research pedigrees for COIs, neither can it health check every dog being entered.

what type of example does it set when a dog WELL over the COI avg set for a breed win a huge competition like crufts, anybody who wants to show will now get a dog that is really inbred!!

Caryll wrote:

Steve wrote:you are always defending them caryll!! crufts could help a hell a lot more by doing a bit of research on the dogs they allow in their shows if you cant see this there really no point in carrying with this topic.

How can a dog show research 21000 dogs?

What should be happening, is that all potential show dogs should have to pass a medical (at the owner's expense) before entering any shows & a copy of the certificate should be sent with any entry forms. Crufts is a huge dog show, the biggest in the world. It can't research pedigrees for COIs, neither can it health check every dog being entered.

It's really not hard these days you could just use a mobile for it

Seems like dog shows in general can always be a bit on the controversial side, especially since judging does have subjective parts to it. That being said, I agree that we can wish for more scrutiny when it comes to COI. Just hasn't been made a big enough ruckus about as I believe most shows go off standards by the registries they support. Is it really any wonder that the shows don't do anything about what the KC should be concerned about? Most if not all shows here start with the kennel club's standard and judge based on that. I didn't see Caryll as defending Crufts. Saw it as explaining why she doesn't think fault is primarily theirs for the inbreeding issue. I wasn't impressed with the judging myself however. I only read about it however, as it is not a big thing here so much.

Steve wrote:

Caryll wrote:

Steve wrote:you are always defending them caryll!! crufts could help a hell a lot more by doing a bit of research on the dogs they allow in their shows if you cant see this there really no point in carrying with this topic.

How can a dog show research 21000 dogs?

What should be happening, is that all potential show dogs should have to pass a medical (at the owner's expense) before entering any shows & a copy of the certificate should be sent with any entry forms. Crufts is a huge dog show, the biggest in the world. It can't research pedigrees for COIs, neither can it health check every dog being entered.

It's really not hard these days you could just use a mobile for it

Use a mobile for what? Researching 21,000 dogs? It just isn't feasible.

please dont comment if you dont know anything about the technology of today there 100 of different you could of do

Ok, Steve. I'm out of this conversation. You have your opinion, I have mine.

you are just making excuse for them because you like going!

all they need to do is get their hands on the kennel club detabase which would be a pretty easy thing to do and have a program to filter out the good and the bad and send the good registered show breeder a scan code and app on member mobiles or some type of hand hold machine to scan the code when the owner enter the show job a good one it really not hard these days. someone with a little bit of skill for this probably could do it in a day or 2

there no excuse for ignoring health issues these days

On another note about Crufts in general and just my opinion.
I think that there is a lot more to Crufts nowadays than just the showing element.

Look at the agility and flyball events and the friends for life. That is promoting responsible ownership by having fun. How many people who are sat at home not exercising or stimulating their dog enough, will have watched that and thought '' I will give that a go''

I always feel they spend a lot of time talking about caring for your dog and even did a section on how to identify a good or bad breeder.They talked about the importance of microchips and other health related stuff.

I know they are not perfect but I think it's a well rounded show that is promoting good care.

if they promoted good care they wouldn't allow a 20% inbred win sorry nothing what anybody say will change my mind on this!!

we are meant to bet dog lovers this can not be acceptable to us!

No-one here is going to say it's acceptable that a dog that's 20% inbred should be allowed to enter, let alone win. The difference of opinion is how to go about stopping it or who's responsible, that's all. We're definitely all on the same page, just different opinions when it comes to the details.

I think it is probably the Kennel Club that you need to be cross with then Steve because they set the breeding COI not the dogs shows.

Even if the shows researched the dogs COI, and found it was say 20 , they wouldn't ban that dog from entering because they presume the KC sets a sensible limit.

It's the kc that need to reign in close matings by lowering the maximum COI number. Then these dogs couldn't be kc registered and therefore couldn't be entered at conformation shows.

it's not upto the kennel club who and who shouldn't be allow to enter a dog show it should be the show.

Yeah in theory that sounds right but in practice I don't think they could manage that.

where have you all be living you can do things on pc/machine that could sort this out in a day

1) they get the kennel club database
2) they get a program to sort out from the good to the bad
3) they sent out cards with a scan code on it to good owners and breeders
4) to enter a show you have to scan your card

these things sort out million and million of people 21,000 dogs is not going trouble anybody

they wont do this because they will only end up with a handful of dogs in each category and thats the only reason why they not getting with the time they thinking about money rather the health of breeds

There go steve....... Could make some money with that idea!!

P.s for the greater good

i would have a clue how to do it but i know they been doing this since pc came out

they dont need a scan card it could be one something one of these train turnstile things when you put your ticket

there many different way of doing it

Steve wrote:i would have a clue how to do it but i know they been doing this since pc came out

Were they been doing it. Basically when u enter you dog and if the % is too high then your a no go! They must check breeding lines for them to enter?!? Am such a novice too all this

I'm no expert on this but i am pretty sure if you have database and add it to a program you could ask something like give me a list of all red dog it should give you a list of red dog, so what they need to do ask is give me a list of dog of a breed say staffy of dog below 7% COI

rebeccaleanne wrote:

Steve wrote:i would have a clue how to do it but i know they been doing this since pc came out

Were they been doing it. Basically when u enter you dog and if the % is too high then your a no go! They must check breeding lines for them to enter?!? Am such a novice too all this

look like they only check if the kc registered and nothing else

debs0109 wrote:I used to show Labradors as a hobby and unfortunately judges will pick the owner and not the dog. If the owner is well known to the judge then it doesn't matter what the dog is like. Showing dogs is very "clicky"and it's a case of not what you know but who you know!

I tried to get into showing Staffies years ago and the comment above is so true, there was a circle that was impossible to get into, breeders and judges all knew each other and outsiders never got a look.
More often than not at crufts its the furry, fluffy thing, or the working type dog that gets to the final, very rare to see a staff in the final event.
The K.C and Crufts should make it harder to enter inbred dogs, this would help stop it.

Happy to say that Ella is 4%

Steve wrote:Crossguns memphis belle <<--- winner of staffordshire bull terrier

http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/inbreed/Default.aspx?breed=3080 <<--- add it to this i'm so mad at the moment

Please excuse my total lack of understanding. When I used the link, it said 1% for Memphis Belle. What does the 1% mean exactly?

Scrap that, I typed the name incorrectly.

I see now...

I think crufts should be banned. As we know it is no longer a prime time feature on TV because of the bad press it has recieved over recent years. However....over the last few years it has done some really good work in promoting our breed which is needed now more than ever.

Richardspencer wrote:I think crufts should be banned. As we know it is no longer a prime time feature on TV because of the bad press it has recieved over recent years. However....over the last few years it has done some really good work in promoting our breed which is needed now more than ever.

can you tell me the good work they have been doing? becasue only thing i can see is they promoting inbred dogs which should be denounce by all dog lovers.

Steve wrote:

Richardspencer wrote:I think crufts should be banned. As we know it is no longer a prime time feature on TV because of the bad press it has recieved over recent years. However....over the last few years it has done some really good work in promoting our breed which is needed now more than ever.

can you tell me the good work they have been doing? becasue only thing i can see is they promoting inbred dogs which should be denounce by all dog lovers.

Yes the inbreading is completely wrong. Hence why I said at the start that it should be bannsed. But over the last two years they have showcased the East Anglian Staffordshire Bull Terrier Club with whom Paul O'Grady appeared and took a dog around the obstacle course. They championed the breed and its qualities. The RSPCA represented the bread at crufts, ensuring that people new exactly what the breed was about and that how many there are for re-homing. This is called good publicity is it not, I would be ashmed if you thought otherwise at a time when the breed needs all the help it can get.
I am surprised that this topic appears new to you, but crufts has been accepting inbred dogs for decades (this does not make it right just makes them an even more disgusting organisation) However, when we have the sort of people who read the Sun or Daily Mail, claiming benefits because they cannot be bothered to get of the sofa, constantly castigating SBTs or even worse, owning a SBT or any dog for that matter, every bit of good publicity should be accpeted. Soon, I hope, crufts will not operate and therfore, unfortunately SBTs will receive even less good publicity. Would you not agree? I fear not.

huh? new to me??

i have never likes crufts but your new so you wouldn't know that!! i dont care what they do they promote inbred dogs which i have always be against

Steve wrote:huh? new to me??

i have never likes crufts but your new so you wouldn't know that!! i dont care what they do they promote inbred dogs which i have always be against

Being new is an irrelevant point to this discussion. We agree that crufts is disgusting. I thought it was new to you because your reaction to it was so strong and lacked any hint of surprise.
You dont care about promoting the good nature of the SBT??. Why? The point is Steve is that only the knowledgable (hopefully you, me and the rest of the members of this site) would know that they promote inbred dogs. It is the 'Knowledgeless' that watch the program and those people that we need to educate about our breed. By exploiting the use of the vast audience that watches and follows crufts we get that message to a bigger group of people. They are the ones (I cant assume all of them) who have a tainted view of SBTs and if, unfortunately, it comes through a forum that those in know dislike, surely that just has to be swallowed and accept that actually yes we wished cufts didn't exsist but it does and whilst it does we'll take the promoting of the breed using re-homed dogs for whom, no-one can tell if they have been in bred or not. Fine if you dont. Maybe I am just desperate for the breed to continue and not be banned.
So having answered the question 'what good work have they been doing'? maybe I should have stressed the work done by rescue centres appearing on the program and not the breeders. The work the rescue centres do should be promoted whenever and wherever possible so that dogs in their care are not 'disposed' off because they are not wanted.

surely you can recognise this as a good thing.

Steve wrote:

Tara wrote:Surely that's not down to Crufts though? I mean, you were saying it's the KC letting it happen, so presumably banning Crufts wouldn't make a difference, the issue would be with working on stopping all the inbreeding?

crufts shouldn't allow them to enter, it will make me feel better

Whats more important..making you feel better or promoting the hundreds of SBTs homeless at the moment?? Yes this is maybe antagonistic but it is not meant to be. Just poseing a thought!!

all the good things they may do DOESN'T make up for the bad things they do...

this forum is for the good of the staffordshire bull terrier and other breeds not to support some dark age dog competition that only think about making money instead of health of breeds.

Whatever the breed, judging is based in the owner/handler and not the dog!! I was in the showing world years ago, and nothing has changed at all!!! If you going to show your dog you gotta have a very thick skin, or be happy to cheat your way to the top!! I hated it, and will never ever go down the showing route again. hat said, shows such as crufts do give positive air time to our breed, people who don't know staffies would largely be unaware poor old Belle was lame, so staffies behaving nicely on tv is positive!!! just for the record, Manny is 4 percent !!
I wouldn't care if he was higher, he's perfect to me!!,

Aly, I couldn't agree more about showing! I did it many years ago too, with Dobermanns and the classes were huge then. Both my dogs were Champion bred and good dogs (although a little short in the neck for the current fancy but rather that than Wobbler syndrome) and generally showed very well, but the bigger the show the more the face on the end of the lead mattered. I know this might sound like sour grapes, it truly isn't. But what finally made me give up was when I entered my bitch in a Novice class at a Open Show. I noticed from the schedule that the judge was also the breeder of one of the bitches entered, which I didn't think was allowed (or if allowed, not ethical). Anyway, all 30 of us went through our paces and I must admit I did pay particular attention to the bitch that was bred by the judge. I'm not exagerating - that dog moved atrociously, roach backed and like a camel (both legs on one side) - and it was placed 3rd in a class of 30 by its own breeder! I gave up showing that day.

Exactly Lynda, it happens in staffords constantly, I could name names, but I won't!!! But is shocking, and I am so much happier just loving my boy at home, and knowing he's just perfect to me!!! As all our dogs should be.

Aly657 wrote: Manny is 4 percent !!
I wouldn't care if he was higher, he's perfect to me!!,

you should care!! i'm locking this topic now i cant believe people dont care about our breed!!