Blues

First topic message reminder :

Blue Staffies are GORGEOUS looking dogs - they really do look almost blue (unlike the "blue" Dobermanns (the breed I had before my Staff) which were just very thin-coated blacks)

Is it my imagination, or are blues becoming more and more common because they are so sought after? A LOT of the puppies posted recently are blue.

You have, I think, 1 year to register (could be wrong there), but the original registration must be done by the breeder.

astubliffhacked wrote:what a coincidence, bumped into a valglo dog today over enville common (west mids) it was 2 yrs old and black, but it was the best staffy i've ever seen, damn near perfect, we chatted for a while and went on our way, superb dog believe me...

Max has few Valglo dogs in his ped .... "Enville common" .... thats a blast from the past , we used to go there from Kidderminster on a Sunday arvo for the big bike meets

Lily has developed some brindle at her back end as she got older. She is KC reg and her parents had the DNA tests. I don't feel I got her from a BYB but understand how people can be duped. BTW Dave your Tilly is gorgeous papers or no papers. In fact all Staffords are

Chiara wrote:Lily has developed some brindle at her back end as she got older. She is KC reg and her parents had the DNA tests. I don't feel I got her from a BYB but understand how people can be duped. BTW Dave your Tilly is gorgeous papers or no papers. In fact all Staffords are

I know and I agree and Lily too

Jason wrote:yeah. Puppy farmers who are selling at high prices just because they are very popular at the moment. When there are too many blues they will no longer be popular. I hope Blues start being bred more with other colours to make the blue gene more of a better example

I agree I want to stud my blue when he is old anoth but I will only breed with a black pedigree sbt with strong blood lines that match my blue other wise I will not stud him I think people who breed blues should do there home work and make the blue gene stronger

Its Terrible when breeders sell pups for almost £1000 because in the pedigree there are god knows how many champions. It means very little, and if the champions are several generations back it means nothing unless there has been a breeding programme for those particular lines. A breeder /shower will always keep the best pups back to run on or to people who have been on a waiting list for that particular mating or to be sold on breeding terms. Look carefully at your registration papers maybe the breeder has stated that your bitch pup must not be bred from, or the male puppy cannot be used at stud, I think this is a very good way of stopping some backyard breeders, not fool proof, but who would wish to pay huge amounts for non registered puppies????

Lola has a lot more champions in her pedigree than Lily, they even share a distant champ which makes them cousins. My dogs rock wshatever the colour x

Andy wrote:

astubliffhacked wrote:what a coincidence, bumped into a valglo dog today over enville common (west mids) it was 2 yrs old and black, but it was the best staffy i've ever seen, damn near perfect, we chatted for a while and went on our way, superb dog believe me...

Max has few Valglo dogs in his ped .... "Enville common" .... thats a blast from the past , we used to go there from Kidderminster on a Sunday arvo for the big bike meets

andy the dog was very similar to yours but black, bike meets.... thats a few yrs ago!! and the sixty bend a few miles away by kinver, tight bend the bikers tried to blast round.

I think it's to much for a supposed Blue that could turn out brindle Jason , i take your point about chavs it is as well though up to those who breed Staffys not to sell to anyone under a certain age , the couple who bred Duke would not sell a pup to anyone under 35 and they ask and i stress ask all those who did buy one to keep them in touch over the Dogs progress, we of course are very happy to do this , we believe they did not over charged for Duke even without papers and it's the least we can do . [/quote]

i'm 24 and my partner 30. i'm doing my masters degree, so spend much of my time at home, my partner is a teacher. we are stable, professional, active people who love our dog Max like a son. why should we be denied a well bred dog just because of our ages?

This is true. 35 is ridiculous.. Judge the person not the age. I'm 23 and have been working with dogs and other animals all my life. It's understandable that you want to sell the pup to someone mature but anyone could be the wrong person to own a dog regardless of age

it's a society problem, till we fix this nothing will change it's very likely to get worse.

i wouldn't pay over the odds for a blue.
i would never buy a blue dog from a huge lines of blues. (increase the chances of CDA)

lilybet88 wrote:
I think it's to much for a supposed Blue that could turn out brindle Jason , i take your point about chavs it is as well though up to those who breed Staffys not to sell to anyone under a certain age , the couple who bred Duke would not sell a pup to anyone under 35 and they ask and i stress ask all those who did buy one to keep them in touch over the Dogs progress, we of course are very happy to do this , we believe they did not over charged for Duke even without papers and it's the least we can do .

i'm 24 and my partner 30. i'm doing my masters degree, so spend much of my time at home, my partner is a teacher. we are stable, professional, active people who love our dog Max like a son. why should we be denied a well bred dog just because of our ages?[/quote]

I don't have anything against a breeder who says they won't sell to somebody under a certain age, as long as they then interview anybody under that age who still feels strongly enough to contact them! Most good breeders have seen many people go through their books, and will have turned down several who they haven't thought suitable, so they know roughly what they're looking for.

In your case, my only concern would be, what happens to the dog when you have your degree & get a job? Who would look after the dog when neither you or your partner are at home? That's not to say it's impossible, just that I, personally, would be asking those sort of questions.

I have a blue, he is 6 months old and absolutely stunning, everywhere we go people say how gorgeous he is, we did pay a lot for him and he is worth every penny perfect size, weight and an absolute credit to staffs, and as for colour that's people's choice, people have white ones.... There choice etc......end of the day still a staff the finest dogs on earth.

For my 2 blues we paid £750 each.
And I'd pay that again for a nice blue with good pedigree.

Love my blues.

My pup 9mths is a darker blue than my girl and has 2 brindle stripes on his thighs which I adore !
My girl is a more solid color no brindle that's visible. There's so many shades of 'blue'!
I always say ' if u buy blue, must be KC reg and inbreeding coefficient lower than breed aveage'
And yes, there's shed loads of blues around !

I also have a soft spot for blue French bulldogs !!!
(hubby says no tho!)

villain1973uk wrote:I have a blue, he is 6 months old and absolutely stunning, everywhere we go people say how gorgeous he is, we did pay a lot for him and he is worth every penny perfect size, weight and an absolute credit to staffs, and as for colour that's people's choice, people have white ones.... There choice etc......end of the day still a staff the finest dogs on earth.

Yes, it's always going to be a personal choice re: colour. However, no breeder should charge more for any colour just because it is that colour! But that's precisely what they're doing, plus they're telling people that blues are a 'rare' colour, which they are patently not!

Jackieb wrote:And yes, there's shed loads of blues around !

Yes, there are.

As I've said before, I have nothing against blues or anyone that wants a blue (although brindle is my favourite, but that's just a personal choice), I just just get angry at breeders who only breed for blue (thereby increasing health issues), charging more for blues (or any other colour), or saying that blue is a rare colour.

With you 100% on this Caryll , i do not see why anyone should pay more for a Blue than any other colour , at the end of the day they are all Staffs .

mickgill wrote:With you 100% on this Caryll , i do not see why anyone should pay more for a Blue than any other colour , at the end of the day they are all Staffs .

None of us disagree.. we're all saying a Staff is Staff regardless of colour.

People will charge more if people will pay that's the way the world is, I like the colour and I payed alot, that was my choice and a great choice too, each to there own.

I'm not saying you were wrong to pay what you did, I'm saying it was wrong of the breeder to charge more because of its colour. Whatever colour it is!

Caryll wrote:I'm not saying you were wrong to pay what you did, I'm saying it was wrong of the breeder to charge more because of its colour. Whatever colour it is!

As Caryll says , it's the breeders not the buyers that are at fault , but daresay the buyers that have been down this line and read up since mostly realise that they have paid over the odds, we all learn by doing most times unless we are blessed with friends with knowledge or spend lots of time researching on places like here. People need to realise that we post such stuff here because we have been there , seen it , done it and bought the T shirt so to speak. Not everyone that has paid a high price for a Blue has been ripped off but as I have said before it can be indicative of the morals and intentions of a breeder to have less concern about the dogs and more concern about making a few quid extra.

For me the personal lessons I have learnt from here and other experience IF I was to ever consider a Blue
Don't pay any more than I would for any other well bred stafford
Check the inbreeding coefficients etc
Do all the regular checks I would do for any other breeder
Don't buy a pup from a Blue / Blue mating

This is no different to any other colour preference (if I wanted Black n Brindle, Pied , Red etc) but we have to acknowledge that certain colours are prone to certain problems and it is wise to take note of the facts and other people's experience

My first staff was Red. Fell in love with him straight away but had no idea what colour I initially wanted to begin with. There was loads of colour options around.. Then when i chose my 2nd staff, I wanted a Blue one as i had yet to see a single one in my county. I found one straight away and thought nothing of it.. Did all inbreeding coefficients and family health checks etc..
Now you cant find anything else but Blue's and they seem to all be inbred and more expensive than proper colour staffs..

End of the day if blue is unhealthy then nobody should breed blue with blue.

Im extremely happy with my Blue Staff, Ramsey.. The nice comments and attention he gets everywhere we go can be very annoying but kinda cool.

Jason wrote:

Im extremely happy with my Blue Staff, Ramsey.. The nice comments and attention he gets everywhere we go can be very annoying but kinda cool.

I have a friend with a really nice looking blue which was the trigger for our original choice of colour blue before we got Tilly, when we started looking we were completely uneducated and looking at £800 minimum and quickly realise we were not going to find a good example easily that could hold a candle to shimmer at 6 months old. So we then looked elsewhere and on a whim bought Tilly , to be later realised as a BYB purchase (but I would never change that for the world as I love her to a million bits) Shimmer is a very stunning looking dog and at 6 months had a lovely blue coat , they got her from a breeder at Chesterfield and a "good deal" I have to say now though although she is a beautiful dog if they had bought her for breeding or show they would be very dissapointed as her coat is now nothing like Blue and more of a Grey/ Green Brindle

Dilutes

There is a common misconception that dilutes are in some way naturally sickly - this is not in fact the case. The dilution gene does impair the ability of the cells to make pigment, but only in that it causes the pigment that is made to be less intense. As with most recessives, the dilute allele is in some way "faulty", but it is only faulty in its ability to produce full-strength eumelanin.
The ability or inability of the cells to produce full-strength eumelanin does not affect the health of the dog, simply its colour.

That said, the idea of dilutes as unhealthy most likely has its foundations in Colour Dilution Alopecia. This is an apparently genetic disease causing hair loss and skin problems. A dog with this disorder will typically appear "mangy" and have partial hair loss. It is usually reported from blue dogs, particularly Doberman's, but presumably it affects Isabella dogs too (diluted livers). Any colour can carry CDA or be homozygous for it, but only blues and isabellas will have symptoms.

CDA does not occur on all dilutes and its frequency varies between breeds. It is particularly common in Doberman's, occurring in up to 80% of dilute dogs. Dilutes in other species such as mice are caused by the same gene, and yet CDA is not known in these, implying it is not an unavoidable consequence of dilution. It is thought that CDA may be caused by a specific dilution gene - labelled dl. Just as there are various different b alleles that all cause the liver colour (phenotypically the same, so only distinguishable through genetic testing), it is probable that there are a number of different d alleles as well, and only one of these causes CDA.
What this means is that CDA is most likely caused by a recessive allele but could theoretically be bred out of most lines by careful breeding and genetic testing.

Its such a shame the colour has been exploited, the blame has to lie in both breeders and buyers seeking the colour at this rate the other colours will be seen as rare thats not good for the breeds future. As beautiful as the colour is I would promote conformation before colour

in normal language keep breeding blue with blue you going to increase the risk of CDA and over 50% staffy that was registered last year with the KC was from blue 2 blue mating and at some point CDA is going be a major problem.

Steve wrote:in normal language keep breeding blue with blue you going to increase the risk of CDA and over 50% staffy that was registered last year with the KC was from blue 2 blue mating and at some point CDA is going be a major problem.

in normal response. yes this is probably the case

Steve wrote:in normal language keep breeding blue with blue you going to increase the risk of CDA and over 50% staffy that was registered last year with the KC was from blue 2 blue mating and at some point CDA is going be a major problem.

Just a slight correction there, Steve.....over 50% of the Stafford registrations were blue, but I don't know how many of those were from blue x blue matings. Without checking the pedigree of every registration it would be impossible to say, although I would hazzard a guess and say it's probably in the region of 40% or 50% of the total blue Stafford registrations were from blue x blue.

"It is usually reported from blue dogs, particularly Doberman's, but presumably it affects Isabella dogs too (diluted livers)."

Just jumping in here from Jason's post as I used to own and show Dobermanns - the few blue dobermanns that I came across in those days were simply blacks but with EXTREMELY thin coats so that the skin showing through made them look bluish to some eyes perhaps, but just mangey to mine. I've only seen one Isabella Doberman and that from a distance - but it was not a pretty sight. Thankfully the vast majority of dobermann breeders stick to black (or brown if really necessary).

I started this thread by observing that a lot of the new puppies entered on this site are blue, and very gorgeous they look too. Caryll has surprised and shocked me by revealing that over 50% of the Stafford registrations (in the past year?) were blue. So, they are not a rare colour at all demanding higher prices, in fact the blacks, brindles, reds, pieds etc should demand the higher price, being rarer than blue!

Lynda wrote:"It is usually reported from blue dogs, particularly Doberman's, but presumably it affects Isabella dogs too (diluted livers)."

Just jumping in here from Jason's post as I used to own and show Dobermanns - the few blue dobermanns that I came across in those days were simply blacks but with EXTREMELY thin coats so that the skin showing through made them look bluish to some eyes perhaps, but just mangey to mine. I've only seen one Isabella Doberman and that from a distance - but it was not a pretty sight. Thankfully the vast majority of dobermann breeders stick to black (or brown if really necessary).

I started this thread by observing that a lot of the new puppies entered on this site are blue, and very gorgeous they look too. Caryll has surprised and shocked me by revealing that over 50% of the Stafford registrations (in the past year?) were blue. So, they are not a rare colour at all demanding higher prices, in fact the blacks, brindles, reds, pieds etc should demand the higher price, being rarer than blue!

the post your referring to was copy and pasted from a very knowledgeable recourse dog colour site (not my words).. plus no one should be demanding higher prices because of colour!! You should pay higher for quality and examples.

I wanted a blue staffy for years but we were not ready for a dog till now so really did not know pricing till recently. I can't tell you how shocked I was to see blues were averaging 2k over here! I still think they are very beautiful but can not justify that amount of money.

i haven't seen a blue staffy here yet, i'm sure they are around but they cant be as popular here as in Aus and the UK.

Lynda wrote: Caryll has surprised and shocked me by revealing that over 50% of the Stafford registrations (in the past year?) were blue.

Unless you see the Breed Record Supplements, or know somebody who gets them, you won't know the figures. It surprises many people, but you still get breeders telling unsuspecting buyers that it's rare & so costs more.

As I've said before, it isn't the colour that I have anything against, it's the poor breeders who don't care about health & hoodwink the buyers.

Oswald wrote:I wanted a blue staffy for years but we were not ready for a dog till now so really did not know pricing till recently. I can't tell you how shocked I was to see blues were averaging 2k over here! I still think they are very beautiful but can not justify that amount of money.

We have a lot of them here and the prices are ridiculous and the breeding usually poor. I met a man at the dog park recently with a 8mnth Blue bitch and when I commented how pretty she was he said "Can't wait til she comes into season, cha ching, I already have a blue male lined up for her" I didn't even know what to be shocked about first, the fact he was planning on breeding her on first seson, or the blue on blue breeding issues.. I decided to try and tackle the breeding age first and he got in a huff.. People like that make me sick!! Cha ching

Kylie wrote:

Oswald wrote:I wanted a blue staffy for years but we were not ready for a dog till now so really did not know pricing till recently. I can't tell you how shocked I was to see blues were averaging 2k over here! I still think they are very beautiful but can not justify that amount of money.

We have a lot of them here and the prices are ridiculous and the breeding usually poor. I met a man at the dog park recently with a 8mnth Blue bitch and when I commented how pretty she was he said "Can't wait til she comes into season, cha ching, I already have a blue male lined up for her" I didn't even know what to be shocked about first, the fact he was planning on breeding her on first seson, or the blue on blue breeding issues.. I decided to try and tackle the breeding age first and he got in a huff.. People like that make me sick!! Cha ching

How did you keep your hands off him Kylie! The blue on blue is bad enough, but to breed just for money and on the first season too

Your story reminds me of someone I knew through dog walking, many years ago. He had an entire Rotweiler, and then got a Rottie bitch. When the bitch came into season (still not fully grown) the inevitable happened and she got pregnant with 10 pups, to this bloke's delight. I can't remember now what happened, but the bitch had to be taken to the vet and she lost all the puppies. I commiserated with the bloke but was unwise enough to comment that it may have been for the best, as the bitch was obviously too young to have a litter and such a big one at that. He was furious with me for saying that (it wasn't tactful I know) but even more furious with the vet who "hadn't tried to save the puppies" and that he was now denied the £3000 he was counting on for the puppies (Rottie pups cost about £300 each in those days). I was so flabbergasted I never spoke to him again.

Jason wrote:

mickgill wrote:With you 100% on this Caryll , i do not see why anyone should pay more for a Blue than any other colour , at the end of the day they are all Staffs .

None of us disagree.. we're all saying a Staff is Staff regardless of colour.

So why charge more for a Blue ? .

mickgill wrote:

Jason wrote:

mickgill wrote:With you 100% on this Caryll , i do not see why anyone should pay more for a Blue than any other colour , at the end of the day they are all Staffs .

None of us disagree.. we're all saying a Staff is Staff regardless of colour.

So why charge more for a Blue ? .

Because it's a rare colour Mick

Yes, so rare that over 50% of all pups registered last year were blue..........

Caryll wrote:Yes, so rare that over 50% of all pups registered last year were blue..........

When our Zaccy died I really wanted another dog. We got Obi who is blue but to be honest I wanted a red or black staffie as the blues seemed so expensive for nothing special if you know what I mean. I looked for ages but all we could find were blues and the cheapest we could find was over £800!!!

Seen as we'd only paid £350 for our Zaccy nearly 12 years ago I though that was a bit steep ok inflation and all that but £500 more for just a colour. Luckily we found our baby Obi he was £650 which I thought was more reasonable but the price some people charge for a blue staff is extortionate £1200 and it's not even a show dog it's just got champs in its pedigree but a lot of those champs are great grandparents etc.

Ok Obi is from a blue x blue mating and I didn't realise at first that this was wrong but luckily for us he seems fine no allergies at yet and his coat is a beautiful dark colour like his dad unfortunately his 5 sisters have taken after mummy and are more silver grey than a beautiful blue.

A friend at school recently had a blue girl but went to a reputable breeder, travelled quite a way to get her. I must admit I really liked the colour as I hadn't seen one like her before. I'm so glad we found Charlie though, his colour is lovely too...and more importantly he's a lovely puppy

Griffin5 wrote:A friend at school recently had a blue girl but went to a reputable breeder, travelled quite a way to get her. I must admit I really liked the colour as I hadn't seen one like her before. I'm so glad we found Charlie though, his colour is lovely too...and more importantly he's a lovely puppy

My favourites are black n brindle girls and red boys though I have to say I love all staffies

Red with white staffs are my favorite personally. But I love any perfect example staff

Jason wrote:Red with white staffs are my favorite personally. But I love any perfect example staff

IF (and its a really big if) we go for another puppy it will be black n white or red n white pied ot possibly be red with a bit more white than Tommy or we may just get the cute looking one from any colour nomination , or maybe we will just settle for a staffy and will be called Tiny

Have you got the bug Dave lol

Hayley wrote:Have you got the bug Dave lol

Who me ...........no :-$ The OH wanted me to go and get another this week but talked her out of it as all of us only have 2 arms and I really don't know how they would cope when I'm away

omg lol 3 would be mental

Jason wrote:omg lol 3 would be mental

2 can be a little exciting at times

lol, Dave, so glad you got your favourite colours then! They are all lovely, I just love the look off them. Such a proper looking dog

Edie is a Blue Staffie. I was looking for a fawn/red col staffie but fell in love with her.
I got her from a KC breeder and she has some champions in her pedigree line

was she breed with 2 blues parents?