quick morning rant!

so as usual this morning came home from work and took Diesel down the local hosp for a run around, its good coz there is grass and trees and no cars cause the hospital is pretty much abandoned as a new one was built, never really any other dogs either so she's free to roam. but this morning as we turned the corner and there standing in the car park area was this trackie clad dude just standing with two Lhasa Apso's, one adult one teenage pup, getting tangled in two extendible leads.....an am kinda like "check this geezer out, nice way to "walk" your dogs just stand there" so we continued along, Diesel off lead sniffing about as usual, as we walked closer to this guy he never said anything or that (not even a "morning" which to me is the polite thing to do, specially amongst fellow dog walkers) so a let Diesel go across to say hi.....stupidly on the assumption that if the dog owner doesn't say anything ie/ is your dog ok, my dogs a bit funny, please keep your dog away/put back on lead then they are fine with your dog greeting....
so diesel goes over for a wee sniff, all dogs are fine but he's hauling his dogs back in by the neck (poor wee things) and then Diesel started her "lets play" routine and a shouted "come on then, they can't play" next thing the guys like
" do you not thing that should be on a lead!?"
what cause she came to say to your dogs?? cause she's a happy playful pup?? (no response when i said this)
Dogs say hello, that what the do? and unless you say prior to me then am not gonna stop her
So i shouted Diesel, and continued to walk to the edge of the car park, where i put her on her lead as usual, and the guy kinda slowly followed same way, where i then witnessed his leashed pup run onto the road twice! but aye mate my dog should be leashed??? u cant even control yours on a lead!!!
Then after dragging the little pup along for a bit he picked it up and carried down the street.
Seriously don't give me dog advice when you clearly don't have a clue

The thing is he may have experienced bad dogs off the lead in the past , we have people using these forums who have also had their dogs attacked by dogs of the lead , yesterday we were walking Duke on the lead we were stood on a large park field talking to a guy with an Old Russell , all of a sudden a large white Staffy X appeared out of nowhere and the owner was nowhere to been seen , he sniffed both dogs and when he sniffed Duke his hair raised up on his back, his owner appeared on a path 200 yards away , she started to shout him but his recall was poor , i shouted for her to come over she did and the dog went with her .

Now that Dog didn't attack Duke fair enough but what if it had ? there is no way the woman could have stopped this powerfull dog and she was 200 yards away, for us it was a very scary moment as it must have been for the guy you saw, after all how was he to know your dog was friendly ? , i think it is a good thing if you see another dog to get yours on the lead first then if the owner invites you over for a chat fair enough , Duke is 15 weeks he has been attacked twice sadly by Bull breeds both of the lead .

Hi,
Am quite sure that Solly would not like to be confronted by a 'happy bouncing pup' if he was on the lead. I think you have to take it as a given that you keep your dog on the lead when in the vicinity of other dogs on leads. It's because of 'happy bouncing pups' and others charging around Solly when he is on the lead that we now muzzle him (just in case).
Dont be misled by all that fluffy hair, Lhasa Apso's, like terriers are notoriously feisty little dogs and will give as good as they get.
Anyway no one was hurt and I bet Diesel still had a lovely walk.

Anne

I think both of you should have checked. If his dogs aren't OK, he should have said when you were getting close, but you should have asked before letting Diesel meet them too. That way you can be sure. Not everyone thinks the same way as you do, so although it seems stupid for someone not to tell you if their dogs aren't OK, some people are like that, so at least you can make sure too to be on the safe side.

I understand what everyone is saying her but my point was all dogs were fine, she didnt charge at them, she never charges at other dogs she approaches really slowly and usually lies down waiting for the other dog come to her. We were in plain view for quite sum time so the guy had plently of opportunity to say something, and his dogs didn't growl they were just trying to come and say hello and get a sniff and getting hauled back in, he was acting more like he just didnt want them near any other dogs. Fair enough maybe he had a bad experience before, but like i said he had plently of opportunity to say something. We walked right passed him and Diesel was just behind us. It wasn't like we were miles behind and diesel came out of nowhere.
so really my point is that if you have a problem say in advance, am not a mind reader, i have other people's dogs act worse that what diesel apparently did and have a no point cheekly said " do u not think THAT should be on a lead"

Ticklymac wrote:I understand what everyone is saying her but my point was all dogs were fine, she didnt charge at them, she never charges at other dogs she approaches really slowly and usually lies down waiting for the other dog come to her. We were in plain view for quite sum time so the guy had plently of opportunity to say something, and his dogs didn't growl they were just trying to come and say hello and get a sniff and getting hauled back in, he was acting more like he just didnt want them near any other dogs. Fair enough maybe he had a bad experience before, but like i said he had plently of opportunity to say something. We walked right passed him and Diesel was just behind us. It wasn't like we were miles behind and diesel came out of nowhere.
so really my point is that if you have a problem say in advance, am not a mind reader, i have other people's dogs act worse that what diesel apparently did and have a no point cheekly said " do u not think THAT should be on a lead"

Thats irrelivant, he had his dogs on a lead fo a reason... its not his responsability to control what your dog does, or tell you if your dog is approaching. Sorry but I think you are in the wrong here.

Some people just have their dogs on a lead cause they have no recall or don't like letting them off, not cause they are da or dont want other dogs near them. My mum walks both mine and my brothers dog on lead, who both have good recall, just cause she's too nervous and panicky they run away (which they wouldnt) but that doesn't mean she doesnt let other dogs greet them...

Dan330 wrote:

Ticklymac wrote:I understand what everyone is saying her but my point was all dogs were fine, she didnt charge at them, she never charges at other dogs she approaches really slowly and usually lies down waiting for the other dog come to her. We were in plain view for quite sum time so the guy had plently of opportunity to say something, and his dogs didn't growl they were just trying to come and say hello and get a sniff and getting hauled back in, he was acting more like he just didnt want them near any other dogs. Fair enough maybe he had a bad experience before, but like i said he had plently of opportunity to say something. We walked right passed him and Diesel was just behind us. It wasn't like we were miles behind and diesel came out of nowhere.
so really my point is that if you have a problem say in advance, am not a mind reader, i have other people's dogs act worse that what diesel apparently did and have a no point cheekly said " do u not think THAT should be on a lead"

Thats irrelivant, he had his dogs on a lead fo a reason... its not his responsability to control what your dog does, or tell you if your dog is approaching. Sorry but I think you are in the wrong here.

i dont see how me trying explain the situation is irrelivant? People responded with their own experiences of dogs charging out of no where and owners being miles away with bad recall, so i was explaining that was not the case!

He clearly had his dogs on lead for control as they were running onto the road even on lead!
my rant was about people who can't control their own dogs talking down to me and acting like my dog was out of control.
not whether it was bad manners of me to let my off lead dog greet his on lead dogs

Then you're right, I think he was rude, and obviously a hypocrite for judging you when his dogs weren't listening to him much either. But just that, for your own peace of mind, don't expect everyone to tell you they don't want you near them. Some people don't. I remember I was walking around the field with Loki and I saw a woman walking a Staff in the distance, we were coming towards each other, and she didn't say anything at all until we were really close, and only then did she say "Will you just move? My dog doesn't like other dogs." I was thinking "Wow, that was rude, how am I meant to know that?" but some people are like that.

Its a tricky one Ledger is mostly ok with other dogs but there are one or two that he isn't, most he ignores after an initial hello but he can get uncomfortable with more energetic/unpredictable dogs and by the time I tried to explain that to a stranger in the park the dog would have likely got close enough to greet anyway yet I do want to keep him socialising with different dogs so I just have to be on the ball and react to his body language.

Personally if the owner makes no eye contact with me and doesn't exchange a greeting then I wouldn't have the dogs approach and on the flip side some walks (depending what shift i've been on) I'm not in the mood for even saying hi to someone.

I think this is a good opportunity to talk about the right etiquette in situations like this. We can maybe formulate a set of rules that we can all follow. I think issues to be addressed are

What to do when an off lead dog approaches
What to do if your dog is off lead and approaches another dog on/off lead.
What precautions need to be taken when at the park and letting your dog off lead. Ie approach all other dog owners in the vicinity and introduce dogs on lead before letting them free etc
Do you let your dog offlead if it has DA tendencies.

Discuss?

Ticklymac wrote:so really my point is that if you have a problem say in advance, am not a mind reader, i have other people's dogs act worse that what diesel apparently did and have a no point cheekly said " do u not think THAT should be on a lead"

I agree that he was unnecessarily rude.

However, I for one don't like dogs coming over to Dempsey without proper intros - he often doesn't give any warning signs and he can take a dislike within a fraction of a second. Having said that, I always ask people to take their dogs away if they get too close - I only resort to rudeness if they don't listen,

Harley wrote:
What to do when an off lead dog approaches

I always ask the other owner to take their dog away because mine may not be friendly.

Harley wrote:
What to do if your dog is off lead and approaches another dog on/off lead.

I call him back or tell him to stay if the recall doesn't work. Howevere, I'm rarely in that position because I kep a good look out for other dogs & generally stay away unless I know them well.

Harley wrote:
What precautions need to be taken when at the park and letting your dog off lead. Ie approach all other dog owners in the vicinity and introduce dogs on lead before letting them free etc

You should never let your dog approach another without first clearly asking the other owner if it's ok. Never. You just don't know what's going to happen, especially with a bull breed. If you're not sure, keep your dog on lead.

Harley wrote:
Do you let your dog offlead if it has DA tendencies.

Only if there are definitely no dogs around & you have a good recall!

ANattyRat wrote:Then you're right, I think he was rude, and obviously a hypocrite for judging you when his dogs weren't listening to him much either. But just that, for your own peace of mind, don't expect everyone to tell you they don't want you near them. Some people don't. I remember I was walking around the field with Loki and I saw a woman walking a Staff in the distance, we were coming towards each other, and she didn't say anything at all until we were really close, and only then did she say "Will you just move? My dog doesn't like other dogs." I was thinking "Wow, that was rude, how am I meant to know that?" but some people are like that.

thanks for understanding where i was coming from. I maybe didnt explain properly the situ and my issue
fair enough maybe it was bad manners of me to let diesel greet his dogs and i accept that but if he had said in advance '"can you please put ypur dog on a lead/keep your dog away" then i would have happily done so. It was just his cheeky tone and he implication that my dog was sum out of control animal,, specially when he couldnt control his own

i am having more and more encounters that make me realise i live in la la land. But people like you described really annoy me as i think it especially the other owners (the one with the not always so friendly dog) to say something.
Diesel loves everyone and i would hate for that to change cause of the lack of communication, i am quite a shy person and do find it hard to find my voice to be the first to say something but am really gonna try hard to change

Ticklymac wrote: thanks for understanding where i was coming from.

I totally understood where you were coming from. He was rude & it c9ould have been handled so much better if he'd just asked you to put him on a lead or keep him away!

Ticklymac wrote: Diesel loves everyone and i would hate for that to change cause of the lack of communication, i am quite a shy person and do find it hard to find my voice to be the first to say something but am really gonna try hard to change

Believe it or not, I'm also quite a shy person (ok, all you lot, stop laughing at that! ) - it's so much easier to talk to people here, not face to face, than it is when you're at the park etc. But for everybody's sake you need to speak up sometimes, although it wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference in this case because I doubt that the other owner wouldn't have listened!

Maybe in future you should put Diesel on a lead and force yourself to ask if it's ok to introduce the dogs? That way there's no misunderstanding & you might even get to be friends!

with me being a new dog owner i am learning that everything isnt as simple and perfect as i thought in the dog owner world!
over the months though my attitude and actions have changed a lot and after this experience will change again. I used to always call diesel back in if she wasnt close to me when another dog was approaching just in case i had to put her back on lead and look to the owner and assume that if they seemed fine and didnt say anything that things were fine and continue, i will now ALWAYS ask before continuing on.
I have made one slight friendship with a guy in my dog park with an adorable but slightly DA ABD, because he actually communicated with me and we then stood and chatted and our dogs got on fine - his dog os mainly male aggressive. And i did actually post because it was so refreshing to meet a nice clued up sensible dog owner. Sadly most other dog owners in the dog park put their dogs back on leash and turn the other way - staffy stigma

I know what you mean - I get similar with Dempsey. Thing is, I'm used to it because my last dog, Bandit, was very DA. Dempsey's not so much, but he's unpredictable. He has a couple of friends to play with, but I don't trust his reactions to strange dogs as he's likely to just have a go!

Mostly our lot are walked off lead, they might have great recall (even Charlie) but I still call them back and put them on their leads if we see a dog they don't know, even if the other dog is off lead, it's not because my dogs are DA, but with 2 staffies and a crazy border collie x who work as a team when meeting anyone new ( one sniffs at the face, one heads for the tail and the other sniffs anything left), they can easily scare another dog into aggression
Both my staffies are under 2 years old so are usually full of energy and always up for a game with new friends, but we never assume that all new dogs are going to be friends, and I make sure my lot say hello one at a time just in case, we have only ever had 3 people drag their dogs away from us, one was a very DA westie, another was a stupid man with a lab who was Staffie ignorant (the owner not the very over friendly dog) and one was a stupid man who put his hands up to my lot and kept repeating "I am not the enemy" I couldn't care less, Charlie and Polly were too busy watching the trees for squirrels and I don't think they even saw him, Skye my bc x just ignores strangers anyway.

I think when I got Polly I was so hyper aware of the Staffie reputation that I didn't want to
1: have her hurt or upset and possibly become DA and
2: I didn't want people to think she was a nasty dog and keep their dogs away from her so that she didn't have any furry friends.
So far this is working out really well and my dogs have lots of doggie friends they play with and most of the people we meet have positive impressions of the breed

It's very difficult at times because of the stigma, this morning there were a few people letting their dogs socialise but the owners gave me and Dex the cold shoulder and to be honest I left the park with tears in my eyes today and feeling silly for it. Not everyone reacts that way thankfully, but it upsets me even though I'm not sure what to do about it other than keep working on showing people how good a dog he is and try and change perception. I feel a bit better now but it wasn't a nice feeling at all.

I wouldn't let my dog approach another dog without asking. That can be seen as rude. Had anything kicked off your dog would have been at fault for being uncontrolled. You can't judge that man he was doing nothing wrong :/

Trouble is, I do the same thing! If I'm out with Dempsey & I see a stafford I avoid it if possible. I know some of them are friendly, but Dempsey's a real handful when he's roused so I'd rather avoid the situation.

Caryll that's you being sensible knowing Dempsey's ways as well as you do. Don't think there's anything wrong with exercising caution in that way at all. Today was horrid as all four owners were happy to be introducing their on lead dogs, we were on lead too and they literally all moved away from us and looked at us in a funny way I had the youngest with me and even he said something about it all confused. Ah well.

The stigma is so much more profound over there than here. I've never had problems before and most people stand and laugh at Lexi having a tiz saying awe she's just protecting you or that she's lovely. Lots of compliments from old fussy duddys. It's just kit that big of a deal here! Shame it is over there.

Your responses all make good sense Caryll.

Dempsey sounds a lot like my first Dog, a bull terrier named Harry. Was fine with some dogs but for some reason would try attack others. I would keep him on a tight leash.