Advice on aggression

Just to see if anyone can give any advice?my aunt has a staff,he's nearly 3 I think.a couple of weeks ago he bit my uncles hand without any warning which was quite deep whilst in the house.before this he was sort of walking around the sitting room,not the same day just a few times in a matter weeks I think before this as if he was rounding him up to use his words.he's never done this with my aunt or her child who's 12 just my uncle.it came as such a shock as it was for no reason my cousin was screaming as he couldn't get him off straight away using his weak hand they managed to put him in the garden.this was about 3 weeks ago since then hes been neutered last week but last night before bed my uncle gave him a few biscuits and his gums were right back growling so he shut the kitchen door my aunt forgot the next morning and went in to kitchen and he was sitting in a corner the biscuits still uniting but he then wagged his tail and ate them straight away she says it was like he was expecting my uncle.it's really strange they've had him since a pup,he's a full staff but it's pretty worrying for them.is it a dominance thing?also does it take time to calm down after neutering?he's only walked on lead most of time as he's so dog aggressive.any advice or ideas greatly appreciated,thanks.ps I was down my aunts before and my uncle came in and he's fine with him again it's just the unpredictable nature of him.thanks again

If this is only in the last 2 weeks , is it not possible something has happened to scare him into this behaviour ?? Semms strange that it's just the 1 person. Has there been no other situations in the past ??

I would also take him to get checked over at the vet just in case he has hurt himself at all , it could be a pain trigger

My first thought would be to get him checked by a vet. Staffs will often ignore pain until it's so bad that they snap.

Exactly what happened the first time? What led up to the bite?

He's been the vets and got checked over when he was neutered and he's fine.there's been no triggers to scare him and no different things have happened.as far as I know it was just a normal evening everything had been fine my uncle just got up of the sofa to open the patio door to let him in the garden and he just snapped.he has shown aggression toward strangers before not everyone just certain people but like I say never to family.could it be the pack leader thing?

Like last night it was a normal evening until bed time when he gave the dog a few biscuits before bed and it started growling again.it seems to be toward my uncle

No, this pack leader thing isn't something I subscribe to.

No dog becomes nasty overnight, and no dog suddenly bites for no reason. There has to have been some sort of trigger. I think your uncle needs to think back very carefully to when it happened to try & find out what went wrong.

Has he ever shown any jealousy?

It wasn't over night he says a few week before he snapped he was acting strange with him.I don't think he's ever shown any jealousy as far as I'm aware.he did used to be possessive over food when he was a pup but I think he grew out of this.its just really strange,they can't figure it out.he's back at vets in morning for another check so I'll see what's what as I'm going so can ask a few questions

Try to keep a diary each day of things that have happened and any responses to them. This may aid the vet to find out what is going on.

There's some underlying problem. Is the dog insured for vets fees? If so, ask for an investigation for brain related problems - epilepsy etc.

Does your uncle rough play with the dog? Does he help feed, train and walk him?

Unfourtunatelly they're not insured but that's an interesting point that there could Be something like that going on he's not shown no signs of fitting or nothing though.he doesn't rough play with him just normal games with his toys etc.yes he's interactive with the dog feeding walking etc.the diary is a good idea thanks.do you think his aggression will subside now he's been neutered?

The neutering will not neccessarily calm him down and even if it has an affect it will take time for the hormones to fully exit his system.

At 3 years old, its unlikely that neutering would have any effect, and its debatable whether it would if he was younger either. I agree with the others, if they have had him from a pup, something must have happened to trigger this uncharacteristic behaviour. A 3 year old dog isn't going to suddenly start showing aggression to a member of their family for no reason, there must be an underlying issue there. I agree with Caryll that he should be checked out for brain related problems, but without insurance, that will be extremely costly.

Our last dog a Parson Jack Russell started to behave in this manner for no reason at all she was nine years old , she started to growl when we tried to stroke her , we took her to the vets after she snapped at my wife the vets could find nothing to cause this behavior , we took her home but she became worse she pinned a young girl to the living room door when she was leaving our home, she would stare for a few mins and attack something that wasn't there , sadly we took her back to the vets three weeks ago the vet said she was suffering mental illness and it would be kind to set her free which we did .

I hope im not scaring you with this story our vet even checked for tooth problems but if a dog is showing such aggression and biting for no reason mental health problems need looking into , i wish you and your family all the best .

mickgill wrote:Our last dog a Parson Jack Russell started to behave in this manner for no reason at all she was nine years old , she started to growl when we tried to stroke her , we took her to the vets after she snapped at my wife the vets could find nothing to cause this behavior , we took her home but she became worse she pinned a young girl to the living room door when she was leaving our home, she would stare for a few mins and attack something that wasn't there , sadly we took her back to the vets three weeks ago the vet said she was suffering mental illness and it would be kind to set her free which we did .

I hope im not scaring you with this story our vet even checked for tooth problems but if a dog is showing such aggression and biting for no reason mental health problems need looking into , i wish you and your family all the best .

Thanks Mick I've just got back from the vets with him and she "thinks"it's a dominance thing that's always been there which is starting to manifest it's self now.she says they don't need a trigger as it's probably always been there.she says it'll take 6 weeks for the neuter to take effect and says he needs a behaviourist in straight away.sorry to hear of your loss it's terrible to lose a dog in any circumstance.personally I think he may be suffering some mental illness like your jack russel was as like yours there's been no trigger for this it's just all of a sudden.I hope he's not as he's a nice dog and the behaviourist can help but I fear deep down that he may have to be put to sleep.the vet was saying he's just so strong and solid it would be to dangerous to keep him the way he is if he can't be helped.I just really hope it doesn't come to this.thanks everyone for the advice

Hang on.
We've gone from a dog with a problem of singling out one person in the family straight through to mental illness with euthanasia being an option. All within the space of 20 hours.

First off - epilepsy - a dog with epilepsy who is disposed toward aggressive post-ictal behaviour will not discriminate between people - he won't be selectively choosing one person to have a go at. That's not how it works.

Your vet suspects "a dominance thing" and that's now being developed into "some mental illness". Dominance issues are not necessarily caused by anything categorizable as a form of idiopathic mental illness.

Did the vet even see the behaviour in question to allegedly make the comment attributed?

Does your uncle hold onto the biscuits before giving them to the dog? Does he pretend to give him the biscuits than take it away?

Dogs always have a reason to bite, they don't bite for nothing, he will have warned your uncle but your uncle will have missed the warning, that isn't unusual with us humans.

I think that's the problem though Cyril our dog just slipped into this dominant behavior , it was like right im in charge here now and i will let you know about it as well , ours had been brought up with our cat and never bothered her once but i swear that last two weeks of her life if she would have got to the cat she would have killed it , any dog became fair game for her , she was crate trained and after she bit my wife i tried to order her into it she would not go in after years of going in without a problem, she just showed me her teeth instead , we took her to our caravan on the coast she used to love her runs on the beach i suppose we thought it might bring her round not likely it didn't we could not let her off the lead she was going nuts at every dog , horse she saw .

We got her into the car brought her home and rang the vet , once there the vet informed us that putting her to sleep was the right thing to do she would only get worse we were told , my wife was heartbroken as was i , i have never witnessed anything like that in all my years of keeping dogs , it came on so quickly and caught us by surprise , i hope things work out for this Dog Rudy i really do .
All the best Mick .

Cyril baby wrote:Does your uncle hold onto the biscuits before giving them to the dog? Does he pretend to give him the biscuits than take it away?

Dogs always have a reason to bite, they don't bite for nothing, he will have warned your uncle but your uncle will have missed the warning, that isn't unusual with us humans.

Totally agree with this, whether your Uncles going to admit it or not he has in the past and leading up to the bites teased this dog.
The fact the dog is focusing all his aggression on him is pointing to this man doing something, but what it was or is only he knows and i bet his not going to say he'd rather the dog now pay with his life for his little games that have messed up this dog

well i have to diagree with your vet, they should know better tbh. agressive biting isnt dominance, dogs bite out of fear, overactive play accidents or there is something wrong with them. all of which can be addressed! Dominance is used too frequently as a reason for any dog behaviour, dogs are much much more complex than that.
What you have explained so far sounds like a build up of tension between the two over several weeks. dogs pick up on our feelings, especially fear and in turn act fearfull which can build a tense atmosphere.
Your uncle described that he felt like he was being rounded up which to me sounds like he was very uncomfortable with the situation. that would have almost certainly been picked up the dog, who in turn will be thinking why is he acting that way, what does he know that I dont, is he going to do something? and then it escalates between the two of them in a battle of minds about who's doing what and why.
Staffs are not ones to wait and be bitten before retaliating so will go in first if they feel threatend, a hand going towards him from someone he's been fearfull or tense around for weeks could have been the trigger.
Something must have caused this relationship to have soured, even something like tripping over him can be seen as a deliberate act of violence towards to the dog by the dog.
Im pretty sure if your uncle acts confident with the dog he can start to work on the issue and over time build a better relationship.

Working dog wrote:Hang on.
We've gone from a dog with a problem of singling out one person in the family straight through to mental illness with euthanasia being an option. All within the space of 20 hours.

First off - epilepsy - a dog with epilepsy who is disposed toward aggressive post-ictal behaviour will not discriminate between people - he won't be selectively choosing one person to have a go at. That's not how it works.

Your vet suspects "a dominance thing" and that's now being developed into "some mental illness". Dominance issues are not necessarily caused by anything categorizable as a form of idiopathic mental illness.

Did the vet even see the behaviour in question to allegedly make the comment attributed?

I didn't say he had epilepsy that was another post that suggested it could be something like this.as for a mental illness yes it does sound familiar with micks jack Russell who changed out the blue.no the dog wasn't teased his biscuits were put down for him.do you really think they want him put down?it would be the final and last resort,they are going to get the behaviourist in with him but were talking about if it doesn't work.course theyre going to try and sort it but what they meant to do wait untill he turns on my 12 year old cousin?no the vet didn't see the behaviour as she wasn't in the house but she did see him go off in the vets on the way out.she says it's like humans that could have problems but dogs can't tell us.they're going to do everything possible.I'll just add this is a family pet he's never been hit teased or nothing.apart from recently he was fine

Forgot to add boy oh boy did our Jack Russell let the vet know there was something wrong , she went screaming mad at every animal that came into the vets so much so i had to stand out side with her so she went mad at the animals as they came and went , i agree Rudy vets do not put dogs to sleep for no reason , my wife thought they could give her a pill or tablet to make her better , it was a complete shock when they said no medication would work leaving us with no other choice but to let her go to Rainbow Bridge .

Whatever your uncle may think, there is a reason that he is being singled out for aggressive behaviour.

He has either...
unwittingly teased/angered him
behaved in a manner that has provoked jealousy

Were your aunt and cousin in the room at the time of both incidents?

Rudyblue wrote: but what they meant to do wait untill he turns on my 12 year old cousin?

Just like a newspaper dramatize the story and say it could be a child next.

Maybe having the dog put down is for the best for the dog, after all "its a Stafford" a well advertised breed by the media as a man biter and a child killer

Rudyblue wrote:I didn't say he had epilepsy that was another post that suggested it could be something like this.as for a mental illness yes it does sound familiar with micks jack Russell who changed out the blue.

Having had several dogs that had seizures, not all dogs that have seizures have epilepsy, there are many reasons for the seizure. Some dogs when coming out of a seizure may bite but to the person with them it will be clear that the dog has had a seizure, from what we have been told this isn't the case.

no the dog wasn't teased his biscuits were put down for him.

Only the uncle can say if he held onto the biscuits, from what has been said the biscuits do seem to be a trigger. A foster dog I had, Bertie, was pts earlier this year, I was told that he had suddenly turned aggressive and they pts him on the vet's advice. Since then I found out that his owner used to hold onto the biscuits they gave him. This man realised he had made a mistake and said he only held on then let Bertie have the biscuit. He was warned many times not to do that with Bertie by myself and his wife but of course he knew better and didn't consider this as teasing him. The man got a bite that needed stitches, Bertie lost his life just because this man couldn't tell the truth, if he had I would have taken Bertie back and he would never have moved on again. He only went to them because they were a neighbour and it meant I could get Cyril out of a pound. I get so upset because this man lied to me, Bertie could still be having a good life if he hadn't lied. Their house has been up for sale since last November, please someone buy it to get rid of him.

do you really think they want him put down?it would be the final and last resort,they are going to get the behaviourist in with him but were talking about if it doesn't work.course theyre going to try and sort it but what they meant to do wait untill he turns on my 12 year old cousin?no the vet didn't see the behaviour as she wasn't in the house but she did see him go off in the vets on the way out.she says it's like humans that could have problems but dogs can't tell us.they're going to do everything possible.I'll just add this is a family pet he's never been hit teased or nothing.apart from recently he was fine

If they wanted him pts you wouldn't be here asking questions so no I don't think they want that. Something has destroyed the bond between him and your uncle and until that can be worked out progress will be slow.

Please tell them to be careful who they get in as a behaviourist, far too many think they know about aggression when they don't, they try to solve an aggression problem with aggression, they try to dominate the dog into submitting, that is what is called "Dominant Aggression", it is a human trying to use aggression to solve aggression.

Don't don't normally try to dominate us humans, we are not part of their pack and they know that, these may help you understand dominance:

http://drsophiayin.com/philosophy/dominance/

http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/why-wont-dominance-die

http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/why-not-dominance.php

Were does your aunt and uncle live? We me be able to recommend a behaviourist which will be better for them and their dog.

Denise wrote:

Rudyblue wrote: but what they meant to do wait untill he turns on my 12 year old cousin?

Just like a newspaper dramatize the story and say it could be a child next.

Maybe having the dog put down is for the best for the dog, after all "its a Stafford" a well advertised breed by the media as a man biter and a child killer

The dog has bitten the Uncle you have to agree then that it must be keenly watched when a 12 year old child is in the same home don't you ? in fact you are saying in the post it's ok to bite aren't you ? .

Well obviously you cant read because no where in my post did i say it was ok to bite.

The dog has a problem with the Uncle, as i believe something has happened between them two, not the 12 year old.

I think it's fair to say that when a dog bites whatever the breed something needs to be adressed, i agree Denise that Staffy's get the rough end of the stick in the media , what ever the reason for this dogs aggression lets hope it gets sorted, i applaud Rudy for trying to do just that .

I don't think the dog needs to be pts, I think you need a second opinion from a different vet, as there is clearly some underlying issue here.

I can understand where you're coming form re the 12 year old, if a dog bites a family member, thoughts would automatically go to 'what if it were the child?' but it does seem like there is a definite issue with the uncle, and none of the other family members. That being said, I would keep a close eye on him around the child, and I would say exactly the same if it were a labrador we were discussing.

Thanks Mick I've just got back from the vets with him and she "thinks"it's a dominance thing that's always been there which is starting to manifest it's self now.she says they don't need a trigger as it's probably always been there.she says it'll take 6 weeks for the neuter to take effect and says he needs a behaviourist in straight away.

I missed this post, that vet knows nothing about dogs behaviour or how there mind works, I would take him to another vet, the larger practices usually have a lot more experience than the small ones.

Vets keep telling owners that neutering their dogs will stop aggression, one day someone will sue a vet for this because it never stops aggression, all it does is to take the testerone away from the dog, that can make them a little calmer but often the owner doesn't see much difference. At least he was a mature dog when he was neutered.

When she neutered him did she do blood tests? Many vets don't and they can tell such a lot about dogs and what is wrong with them. There are so many things that can make a dog like this. A friend who was a behaviourist once went out to a dog that had suddenly turned aggressive, the reason was his owners had put a bell on his collar and it upset him. He couldn't tell his owners the bell upset him so he started to bite, once the bell was taken off he because his normal self.

Can you put a photo up of him please, I am a Reiki Master and may be able to pick something up. I know, I am very odd.

Cyril baby wrote: I know, I am very odd.

Not at all. There are many 'natural healing' methods, some of which do seem to have amazing results. If it works, why knock it?

I have been attacked quite a lot Caryll because of it, I have also helped a lot of animals recover as well.

Sorry Cyril I can't post photos I've tried before with my dog.I'll post an update in the next week or so once he's had the behaviourist in.he's been his usual self the last 2 days so fingers crossed

Can you email me a photo of him pleae? My address is nethertumbleweed@yahoo.co.uk I may be able to help the dog.

In situations like this I can only help the dog if he wants me to, if he doesn't there is nothing I can do, I have to respect what he wants to do.

If the behaviourist starts to talk about being a pack leader, he is dominating everyone etc. get them out of the house as fast as they can, that type of advice makes the dogs worse not better.

Cyril baby wrote:I have been attacked quite a lot Caryll because of it, I have also helped a lot of animals recover as well.

Very close-minded people!

Cyril baby wrote:I have been attacked quite a lot Caryll because of it, I have also helped a lot of animals recover as well.

I dont know anything about reiki I lost my beloved girl in June im very much trying to come to terms with it I so wished I could of chatted with you Im still trying to find some peice I made all the right desicions soz to go off topic

Gem, if you want you can email me at nethertumbleweed@yahoo.co.uk, I can't promise anything, I never do, but will do what I can.

gem, once you've made a note of the email address can you let me know?

Steve doesn't like mail addresses on the open forum.