Very poorly Sophie - any suggestions?

First topic message reminder :

Morning all, we are waiting for the vet to open. Over the past few months, Sophie has suffered two (possibly unrelated) health problems.

We have been working with the vet on both. She started being sick once a week or so, just bringing up phlem. This came more and more frequent. The vet suggested (after several dog food changes) that she may have built up an intolerence to dog food. He advised we stop giving her all dog products (except those we know she is fine with for definite eg her nylabone/rawhyde bone). He suggested we put her on a diet of just meat, veg one carbohydrate and some gravy. That worked really well until about a fortnight ago and the sickness has crept back in. Some times, it would be just phlem, others it would be her tea that was returned. The vet said he wasn't concerned if it was just the occasional blip. She doesn't have pigs ears or anything else that may aggravate her tummy and her erm bottom end is usually ok.

We gave her her advocate yesterday. The vet had advised we put her back on it, even though she has had some reaction to it in the past as it is the best protection against lungworm and we have a large number of slugs in the garden. Anyway, she slept soundly all day (reaction to advocate???). She had her tea last night, chicken, veg, pasta and gravy.

About midnight, she was sick and returned some of her tea. She slept soundly until about six this morning when she was sick again, this time there was something red, possibly fresh blood. Nothing she has eaten can justify this.

We have already spoken to the vets about putting her under, should the problem persist to do bloods, x-rays and ultrasound on her tummy. We will be ringing at nine to book her in for these if the vet now thinks this is the route we should now be taking. I was also going to ask him if he thinks there would be merit in doing an endoscopy at the same time as we want to obviously minimise the number of anaesthetics she has.

The other problem, she has been getting very thin on her undercarriage fur wise. This has been going on since Christmas. When she was spayed in January, the vet did a skin scrape which came out negative, but the problem is getting worse and she is now really thin underneath. She suffered from demodex as a tiny pup and that was treated successfully and she has had advocate regularly which should keep any nasties away.

She is very highly strung and the vet suggested we just keep an eye on this over the summer as due to her being so hyper it may be stress related.

Could there be any connection between the two?

Apart from when she has been sick, she is her normal bouncy self. There is definitley nothing in the garden she has injested and she carries a toy on her walks and is just road walked due to being attacked at the local country park (thankfully not injured).

Sorry for the long post but wanted to give as much info as possible.

The missus here. Another good day yesterday. No sickness and a perfect tummy It looks like we may have found the answer.

Cautiously optimistic. It's when we start to reintroduce foods that we may run into problems, but will keep you posted.

Many thanks for all your kind wishes.

Sounds like a good sign.

Finger, toes and paws all crossed

The missus here. Update. Sophie has been doing really well. This morning I was a bit concerned. Bob left for work at 6 15. Sophie woke up soon after wanting a wee. When I let her out I thought I heard her tummy gurgle.

She had a wee and yes, it was the tummy again. I thought she may be hungry so tried to give her some chicken. She was initially reluctant but then suddenly woolfed it down.

Thankfully, she appears fine and no more tummy.

Took her out for a walk and she litterally dragged me all the way

Glad she is continuing to do better

yes I am happy to read the latest update .. sounds like she enjoyed her walk..that has to be a good sign!!

Sounds like she may be on the road to recovery, fingers and paws all crossed here for you ><

hope everthing continues to get better for Sophie

How's she doing?

Hiya, the missus here. She is doing really good. No problems at all. I will be typing up the diary sheets and taking them down for the vets perusal this morning but today we have gone an entire week virtually without a hitch. She is having the equivalent of about two chicken legs (deboned) a day with the potato still. I think the vet wants to keep her on this diet for another week before starting to reintroducing food stuffs gradually.

She also seems to be much more chilled and relaxed (except on her walks when she is still just as hyper).

This is the longest in recent history that she has gone without a poorly tummy.

We are treating her chest and tummy (where she lost the fur) with Bepanthol which seems to be helping with the dry skin. Although her fur there has not yet returned the skin looks nice and healthy. Doing some research if it is a wheat allergy we will see a positive improvement in 6 - 12 weeks but the fur may not grow back for up to 6 months or longer. As long as her skin is nice and healthy that is all we are worried about.

Also her toilet has bee consistently healthy.

She is having lots of very short walks during the day which again she seems to prefer rather than going too far in this heat.

Will let you know what the vet says, but I suspect it will be to continue as we are for at least another week. ><

wow so happy to read all that !! but not as happy as you must all be!!

HI Vanessa, it is such a relief. We knew there was something wrong but trying to identify it was really hard. I know she is still not getting all her food groups but the vet (on the phone now this morning) has said we must continue as we are and we can introduce some multi vitamins but not yet.

It is so hard to rember how disciplined we are having to be as she always used to have a titbit from our dinner plate or the last piece of a biscuit or other treat. We just have to keep reminding ourselves we are having to be cruel to be kind and putting a couple of pieces of chicken on our tray for her for when we have finished our meal. That way, she doesn't feel so left out.

So glad she is doing so well , at least you have some answers now.

Fingers X'd for a happy staffy with no tummy troubles anymore

That's great!

I went though all this with my Lab, it turned out he was intolerant of all grains, not just wheat! He reacts to some grass too but that's much better and easily manageable since we sorted out his diet. He's on Fish4Dogs at the moment and doing well on that

What a relief, at least you're seeing some improvement at last!

It is such a worry when you can't get to the bottom of what is wrong. You try desperately to do the best and you still feel like you are letting them down. Here's hoping for happy staffies everywhere

bobs wrote: Here's hoping for happy staffies everywhere

Most defintiely

How's she been doing?

The missus here! Sophie is doing brilliantly. Still no hint of an upst tum. She did make gurgly noises yesterday morning, but that stopped immediately after a saucer of chicken and potato. Normally, if she has got a dodgy tum she wouldn't go near food. If you look on the 'quality control' thread on the gallery section of this forum you can see how well she is doing. >< >< ><

Her vet is in the surgery tomorrow, so I will give him an update and see when he wants us to start reintroducing foods, one at a time. That is when we will really know what is gong on. ><

Greast news .. must be a big relief for you , saw the QC post yesterday and ashamed to say I forgot about this one . Big hugs from Tilly (tommy's not here yet)

It sounds like she is on the road to recovery, wanting to eat is a good sign. Hope she is soon back to 100% ><

Great news and hope she continues to improve

Great news and keep us posted when you start her on new food.

Great news and keep us posted when you start her on new food.

Great news

wow.. so far , so good!!

UPDATE:

The missus here. After day 12 of a perfect tum I phoned the vet with an update. The previous vet (who left very recently) said after two weeks we should start to reintroduce one food a week and see if there is a trigger reaction.

I left a message for his replacement and the message I got back was to keep her on the chicken / potato and water (and absolutely nothing else whatsoever) for the rest of her life.

I queried this with the nurse as

1. She would not be getting all of her food groups.
2. Surely, she needs to chew to keep her jaw in good nick and keep her teeth clean.

The responses were that better her miss out on food groups than be ill.
To roll some chicken and potato in balls and bake in the oven to make biscuits.

We have decided to keep her away from all wheat products but relax a little, and go with one food a week. Obviously, if she starts being ill again, then we will go back and have a rethink.

Yesterday, we reintroduced her rawhyde bone for a short period. Her face was a picture. She looked like a kid in a sweet shop. It sounds daft but you had to see the pure joy on her face. (Will get Bob to post a piccie later).

So far, so good. She is in really good form but we will be very cautious in what we give her and keep an even more detailed diary.

But how can you tell a staffie they can't chew?

I can't believe they said that!!

If I were you, I'd very slowly start to introduce a grain free food like Fish4Dogs. I would not be happy just feeding my dog chicken and potato for the rest of its life.

Maybe look at some high quality grain free wet as dogs with sensitive stomachs can find that easier to digest. Also there's raw, BARF or prey model or if you don't want to do that then maybe look at the frozen pre-prepared raw you can get.

I don't feed rawhide, (due to the chemicals involved and because of how much it swells in the gut which can be dangerous not to mention not great for a sensitive tum). Better sticking to something like a bully/pizzle stick and/or a stagbar and/or frozen, stuffed Kongs

Hi, I must admit I was a bit startled, It contradicted what the previous vet has said. Sophie has never had a problem with rawhyde so far so but we will watch her carefully. She is only allowed it for short periods.

I will be contacting the Fish4dogs people as we already have a query about one of their products, so will see what they recomend.

She used to have her kong stuffed with penut butter and frozen, but again, one step at a time. Will keep you posted ><

Have just had a lovely conversation with a young lady at Fish4dogs. She has set us up as a 'dummy' customer and will be sending out some free samples to see how we get on.

It sounds like your vet was being very cautious in the feeding advice given.

I know Janey our global mod feeds Moo on Fish 4 Dogs and gets on very well with it after having some problems with Moo's diet.

Good luck with the samples I really hope it works out for you.

Aww bless ><

bobs wrote:Aww bless ><

Best of luck and hope she enjoys the Fish 4 dogs and it agrees with her , just really read through the post properly as I've been a little preoccupied over the last few days and though I'm no nutritionist it does seem a really strange response from your vet. Have you not got another vet near you where you could get a second opinion ??

We are tied into a policy with the vet that provides us with certain services. We can only opt out on each anniversary. Until now, the whole practice has been highly recommended but we will consider changing if necessary.

I think as we know Sophie best , we will take guidance from the vet and carefully 'do our own thing'.

I bet you can't wait for Tommy to arrive. I actually found Sophie very hard work when she was that tiny. Unlike my son when he was 'new', she didn't stay where I left her and also had very sharp teeth

bobs wrote:We are tied into a policy with the vet that provides us with certain services. We can only opt out on each anniversary. Until now, the whole practice has been highly recommended but we will consider changing if necessary.

I think as we know Sophie best , we will take guidance from the vet and carefully 'do our own thing'.

I bet you can't wait for Tommy to arrive. I actually found Sophie very hard work when she was that tiny. Unlike my son when he was 'new', she didn't stay where I left her and also had very sharp teeth

At least there are a few people with some experiences on here to give you support , gently does it

Just a quick thought. If you're not too sure about rawhide (and I won't give any to my dogs whatsoever!) why not try stag bars? They are really good, hypo-allergenic & don't splinter or swell in the stomach.
You can get them here
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_8?url=search-alias%3Dpets&field-keywords=stag+bar+large&sprefix=stag+bar%2Cpets%2C240

or here
http://www.puredog.co.uk/

or here
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PUREDOG-STAGBAR-NATURAL-ANTLER-DOG-CHEW-stag-bar-dental-health-treat-EX-LARGE-/260956934633?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&hash=item3cc23ed1e9

Will have a chat with Bob. Very interesting, as we were advised not to give her bone of any knid because of the choking/splintering hazzard.

Sorry if this has been covered but were you referred to an allergy specialist for any blood tests by your vet?

We have had very similar problems with Polly, coincidentaly they also started after she was spayed, and we are now waiting to see a specialist vet for blood tests at the end of this month to finally get to the bottom of her skin and tum problems.
We took Polly off of all commercial dog food and put her onto raw to keep her away from all grains, although she does have the occasional dog treat. That sorted out her tum issues but not the skin problems.

Our new pup Charlie has had really bad tum issues with kibble ever since we got him, even with the stuff supplied by the rescue that he had been weaned onto, even fish for dogs salmon and potato sets him off and he ends up with blood in his almost liquid poo because his system gets so inflamed inside.
He is also now on a raw diet and doing really well, although I must admit to being scared at first that he would not be getting enough of something essential to his development.

I hope you get to the bottom of Sophie's problems soon, it's horrible when our 4 legged babies are ill and we have to guess at solutions to try to help them

Wow, PP >< The previous vet suggested bloods, ultrasound and X-rays but only as a last resort as we would have to have Sophie under GA. He suggested the allergy testing is not accurate, so we would be very pleased to know how you get on.

As I have logged, Sophie's poorly tum seems to be improving daily, but her fur on her tum is still very scant and not yet showing any sign of regrowth. Having said that, I did read on the internet, I think on the Pet's at Home website if it was a wheat allergy the fur regrowth can take months and months to come back.

On a timeline, Sophie started losing her tum fur before she was spayed although the sickness started after, as we requested they do a skin scrape at the same time as her spay. I would be really interested if there was a connection. The scrape came back negative, but please keep us posted as we, like you are doing the best we can for our four legged friend.

For us the Allergy testing is possibly going to give us a few answers to help us help her, otherwise her only relief is having course after course of steroids which will not be good for her liver, kidneys and bones long term, and could reduce her life expectancy.

Polly had a scrape test when her skin issues started as well as flea and worm treatments just in case although she had neither.

She also gets really badly inflamed paws between her toes and will chew them until they bleed if left to her own devices, when the skin on her tum and groin is inflamed she will pull herself around by her front legs on the carpets and on any surface that will give her some relief, again if we don't stop this she will strip the skin from her chest to her groin and get infections. The command Polly Up will get her stood up on all 4 paws in a flash though, and Charlie will grab her hind leg to stop her scratching at her sides when we are trying to get her to stop.

We have tried lotions, potions, herbal remedies, homeopathy, essential oils, prescription shampoos and powders all with varying degrees of failure, although diluted lavendar oil in cooled boiled water seems to help her paws and will reduce swelling for a short time. The prescription shampoo from the vet made it worse, and we have also discovered she has an allergy to some antibiotics, namely Noroclav which the vet said is like penicillin allergy in humans

At least with Polly her tum was relatively easy to sort out, she is laying on the cool conservatory tiles as I type this, Charlie is teething and they are both chewing hard on their stag bars, you'd never guess they have any problems at all

bobs wrote:Have just had a lovely conversation with a young lady at Fish4dogs. She has set us up as a 'dummy' customer and will be sending out some free samples to see how we get on.

That's good maybe soak it a bit to start with. Fingers crossed it agrees with her! It does seem to be a well tolerated food for lots of dogs with sensitive tums.

Stagbars are really worth trying. They're 'raw' antlers and go down a treat in this house. They don't splinter and are completely safe. I get mine off eBay.

Let us know how you get on

bobs wrote:Will have a chat with Bob. Very interesting, as we were advised not to give her bone of any knid because of the choking/splintering hazzard.

Ah, but stag bars are not bone! They are antlers - basically compressed hair! Anything they happen to swallow will be in tiny scrapings & won't swell in the stomach. The 'filling' is also quite nutricious & gentle on the stomach. And although they look a little pricey at first glance, they last for ages!

good luck with the fish 4 dogs, hope sophie likes it - I know mine would much rather be eating the chicken and potato given the choice!!

I can also vouch for the stag bars - when you add up the cost of all of the toys desroyed in seconds, a stag bar looks like a cheap investment!

Mia has had hers for months now!!

Wow, just got home. Popped into the vets and although the vet wasn't there I passed the idea of stag bars past the vet nurses. They had genuinely never heard of them and hadn't a clue as to their suitablity.

PP your poor pooches are in a far more unstable conditin than Sophie. Let us know how you get on >< >< ><

bobs wrote:Wow, PP >< The previous vet suggested bloods, ultrasound and X-rays but only as a last resort as we would have to have Sophie under GA. He suggested the allergy testing is not accurate, so we would be very pleased to know how you get on.

As I have logged, Sophie's poorly tum seems to be improving daily, but her fur on her tum is still very scant and not yet showing any sign of regrowth. Having said that, I did read on the internet, I think on the Pet's at Home website if it was a wheat allergy the fur regrowth can take months and months to come back.

On a timeline, Sophie started losing her tum fur before she was spayed although the sickness started after, as we requested they do a skin scrape at the same time as her spay. I would be really interested if there was a connection. The scrape came back negative, but please keep us posted as we, like you are doing the best we can for our four legged friend.

Troubles fur on his tummy took near 10 months to regrow and only now would i say that he has a full coat and that is 18 months after first vaccine for the allergies ..

Have just ordered a stag bar for Sophie should arrive sometime next week.

bobs wrote:Have just ordered a stag bar for Sophie should arrive sometime next week.

Hope she likes it

You won't regret it!