Very poorly Sophie - any suggestions?

Morning all, we are waiting for the vet to open. Over the past few months, Sophie has suffered two (possibly unrelated) health problems.

We have been working with the vet on both. She started being sick once a week or so, just bringing up phlem. This came more and more frequent. The vet suggested (after several dog food changes) that she may have built up an intolerence to dog food. He advised we stop giving her all dog products (except those we know she is fine with for definite eg her nylabone/rawhyde bone). He suggested we put her on a diet of just meat, veg one carbohydrate and some gravy. That worked really well until about a fortnight ago and the sickness has crept back in. Some times, it would be just phlem, others it would be her tea that was returned. The vet said he wasn't concerned if it was just the occasional blip. She doesn't have pigs ears or anything else that may aggravate her tummy and her erm bottom end is usually ok.

We gave her her advocate yesterday. The vet had advised we put her back on it, even though she has had some reaction to it in the past as it is the best protection against lungworm and we have a large number of slugs in the garden. Anyway, she slept soundly all day (reaction to advocate???). She had her tea last night, chicken, veg, pasta and gravy.

About midnight, she was sick and returned some of her tea. She slept soundly until about six this morning when she was sick again, this time there was something red, possibly fresh blood. Nothing she has eaten can justify this.

We have already spoken to the vets about putting her under, should the problem persist to do bloods, x-rays and ultrasound on her tummy. We will be ringing at nine to book her in for these if the vet now thinks this is the route we should now be taking. I was also going to ask him if he thinks there would be merit in doing an endoscopy at the same time as we want to obviously minimise the number of anaesthetics she has.

The other problem, she has been getting very thin on her undercarriage fur wise. This has been going on since Christmas. When she was spayed in January, the vet did a skin scrape which came out negative, but the problem is getting worse and she is now really thin underneath. She suffered from demodex as a tiny pup and that was treated successfully and she has had advocate regularly which should keep any nasties away.

She is very highly strung and the vet suggested we just keep an eye on this over the summer as due to her being so hyper it may be stress related.

Could there be any connection between the two?

Apart from when she has been sick, she is her normal bouncy self. There is definitley nothing in the garden she has injested and she carries a toy on her walks and is just road walked due to being attacked at the local country park (thankfully not injured).

Sorry for the long post but wanted to give as much info as possible.

i am sorry i cannot help, but hopefully the vets will get to the bottom of it.

I dont give billy nylabone/rawhyde bones as they can bite big bits off and swallow them, maybe a real raw bone would be better

><

good luck for today and please let us know how you get on

It could be a partial obstruction of her intestines and if so it would show up on the X-rays or ultrasound. Alot can also be learned through the blood tests. We went through a similar scare with Suki and it turned out be be nothing.

Hope Sophie is okay and the vet can find the problem quickly.

I hope the vets find out the problem for you. Poor Sophie, keep us posted on how she is doing.

It's possible that it could be either a partial blackage which aggravates from time to time or just IBS.

Either way, the vet should be able to pinpoint it with either x-rays or a scan. Fingers crossed it's just IBS!

Still waiting for the vet to call, but she is now tearing round the lounge trying to get us to play. We are completely flummoxed by it

Hope Sophie is ok. Please keep us updated on what happens at the vet.

fingers , toes and paws crossed ><

To me it sounds like her stomach cant cope with being over full.

Try feeding her smaller meals ( morning, lunch & dinner)

The thinning of the fur on the under side can happen in some speyed females.
My old girl Leyla was speyed 11yrs back, and her belly is a smooth as a babys bottom

Update: We have spoken to the vet. In his opinion Sophie built up an intolerance to dog food, so we were advised to give her just meat, fish, poultry together with one carb and veg with a little gravy to moisten it.

He has now changed it to just chicken and pasta and nothing else whatsoever for ten days as apparently it takes that long for an irritant to leave the stomach. She is not even allowed a dog biscuit or even a doggy choccy drop.

Then, after ten days if she has tolerated that, gradually introduce one new food every day to see what triggers the sensitivity. He has not ruled out doing some investigations but wants us to try this first. She cannot stay on just chicken/pasta for ever as it doesn't provide all she needs nutritionally but he said this is the first step.

With regard to the possible blood, he said heaving may have caused a small bleed in the oesophogus but did not seem duly worried.

She seems relaxed enough, but only wants to sleep which is totally out of character for her.

Good job I have struck a deal with local butcher. He is supplying us with 10lb chicken legs at a time for £8.50

I have done some research and the fur loss she is experiencing could also be related to food intolerances.

Will keep you posted. ><

Bob I sending lots of positive thoughts and wishes from here that you get to the bottom of what is causing the problems...

will be interested to see how she goes with her new 'diet' .....

must be such a worry for you..and Sophie!

>< s

Hi Vanessa, you are actually talking to Bob's missus, I try to remember to post that but forgot today, sorry Thank you for the kind thoughts, I will pass them on when he comes home from work. In the mean time, I meant to say introduce one new food every ten days, not every day

Hi Bob's missus!

It is 1 am and I am going to bed now but hope all turns out well!!

Hope this solves it

Well, madam had chicken and pasta for her brekkie. I can already see the first problem. She clearly favours the chicken over the pasta and whilst she ate most of it some of the pasta was licked clean and left on the floor

She had a really good night, no problems so far today

yah!!! glad to hear ( read ) it !!

What food was she on previously?

I'd query the vet on the pasta as it's wheat. Wheat is one of the least tolerated grains by dogs. Rice would be better as it tends to be the most tolerated grain but grains full stop aren't great for dogs.

Doing an exclusion diet, I'd start with just fish and potato. (The fish as dogs can become intolerant of chicken as it's in so many dog foods, fish is also easy to digest and usually good for dogs with sensitive tums)

Good luck with it, I hope you get to the route of the problem soon

Bob's missus here.

Hi Galadriel, originally Sophie was on dog food, tinned in the morning and dried complete food in the evening.

Due to a sensitive tum the vet told us to put her on Chappie, but it was so bland she got bored with it. When her recent problems started the vet advised one meat, one carb, veg and gravy. That worked relatively well for a few weeks when she started being sick more frequently. The vet said he wasn't worried about the odd 'blip' but when she brought up what was possibly blood yesterday morning he said purely just chicken/pasta and absolutely nothing else. This is for ten days and then we can gradually reintroduce food stuff.

She has tended to tolerate pasta more than rice though I was surprised when he suggested pasta. She has been really sick about ten minutes after a rice meal.

Whilst I have my reservations I have to put my trust in the vet but will moniter Sophie carefully. I am now also keeping a very detailed diary of her food consumption, the time and her reactions so we can hopefully pinpoint where the problems lie.

We are 1000% committed to getting her well ASAP and I am also spending as much time as possible at home with Sophie, she will only be left occasionally for supermarket shopping etc or the occasional short
evening.

I will have to go into work on the odd occasion, but we are doing our best to ensure she is not left any longer than necessary.

Bob does shift work so working around that someone is around most of the time to keep an eye on her though we are mindful that we don't want her to get too reliant on having company 24/7 or that will give a further problem later with separation anxiety. Just trying to strike that balance.

She is also still a little 'lost' as my son (24) whom she worships has gone to Zakinthos for three/four months. He went out on the 3rd May but she is still waiting outside his bedroom door on occasions.

Sorry, I meant what brands of dog food

The diary sounds like a good idea; really hope she improves soon

bobs wrote:She is also still a little 'lost' as my son (24) whom she worships has gone to Zakinthos for three/four months. He went out on the 3rd May but she is still waiting outside his bedroom door on occasions.

Awww, that's so sad!

Hi Caryll, this is the third year he has gone. Sophie was the same last year (year before, wi didn't have her). We know she will adjust but she has that 'I've lost something' look on occasions.

You should see the welcome he got when he returned at the end of last summer

The missus here. Update. Sophie had quite a good day yesterday. She had her chicken and pasta for brekkie and tea and absolutely nothing else whatsoever. I am going to have to mince the pasta somehow as she selectively picked out the pasta and dumped it on the floor, though she must have eaten some.

She showed a desire to eat grass, so although the lawn was cut I went out and virtually shaved it

She had a good night (in our bed).

This morning she was fine. At half six I let her out for a wee but as soon as she came in her familiar tummy sounds have started. In case her tum was too empty I offered her just fresh chicken which she just ate two tiny slivers but refused any more. We also gave her some Infacol (vets advice - used for colic in babies).

She is now wandering round with her tummy sounding like a drain begging to go out and eat grass. She was fine before going out for a wee???

Have put all this down in diary for vet to see if there is any pattern, though will keep you lot posted as there is a mine of info on here.

The missus.
Oh gawd, will try not to be too graffic. She has had a 'soft' tum and her tummy still sounds like a drain. I have given her another dose of Infacol and she is finally settling down to a snooze. Hopefully when she wakes she will feel better. She is refusing to eat or drink at the mo.

Talking to people on another board (not animal, but very knowledgable) two people independantly suggested Addisons disease. I mentined it to the vet, but he was dismissive. Any thoughts or suggestions welcome ><

Bob and I were talking earlier. He said he doesn't remember her being like this before her spay. He was wondering if there was any far fetched connection???

Very hot here, so have kept Sophie indoors. She has had a lovely sleep and woke up being sick. White foam, could be phlem and the infacol. All she wants now are cuddles.

boy oh boy you are having a rough trot with Sophie...

don't know what to say or suggest but fingers crossed you get to the bottom of what is causing this problem.

Hi Vanessa, she is now completely chilled. She has had a saucer of chicken and is snoring the cows home. I thought hre tummy was making odd noises again, but when I looked it was her lips vibrating as she snored

We get this about every third or fourth day, hence keeping a really detailed log. ><

glad to read the latest update..bless her ! hope that is a sign of things to come....

I can only imagine how frustrating this must be for all of you.

bobs wrote:Hi Vanessa, she is now completely chilled. She has had a saucer of chicken and is snoring the cows home. I thought hre tummy was making odd noises again, but when I looked it was her lips vibrating as she snored

We get this about every third or fourth day, hence keeping a really detailed log. ><

Good news

Morning all, the missus here. So far Sophie is good to go this morning. She is chomping at the bit to go out for a walk. Sha had some more chicken last night and stretched out flat on her back along the length of the sofa completely chilled. I am just about to give her some more chicken. I have an arrangement with our local butcher. He is doing us 10lb chicken legs for £8.50 which seems a reasonable deal.

Chicken devoured as I type. Let's see what today brings. I am working from home today so apart from nipping to the shops I can moniter her most of the day.

Will keep you posted ><

Sounding very positive, hope today goes well. At least you can keep an eye on her today, glad to hear she is eating, sounds like a good deal from the butcher. Hope we never loose these local shops you couldnt do deals like that with a supermarket.

Morning all, the missus here.

Yesterday, Sophie had a saucer of chicken for breakfast and a small bowl of chicken/pasta lunch time. She was in a really good mood but had really smelly wind. In the eveneing she had, you guessed it a reasonable sized bowl of chicken and pasta. We left her for a couple of hours and about 10 30 she returned most of her tea
No poo yesterday. Weather very hot so I kept her in most of the day.

I have to collect her Advocate from the vet practice so I will hand in our log 'so far'. I don't suppose I will see the vet as it is not a prearranged appointment but at least he can have a quick look in between patients.

Sophie has had a saucer of chicken this morning an I will take her of a short walk before going out, before it gets too warm.

Will keep you posted, any help or advice is really appreciated, we just want ot do our best for her.

You seem to be making progress. Not too sure about feeding pasta though. If it were me I would make it rice.

My instinct was rice, but the vet specified pasta. I will try and grab him if possible and query why pasta over rice and see what he says. Will let you know ><

get well soon Sophie!!

so sorry ur having such a tough time with her , i really hope she gets better soon and the vets get to the bottom of this . big hugs from me and ziggy

Morning all the missus here, waiting for the vet to ring. They left a message last night but we missed it. I have phoned in with yesterdays diary sheets. It's a bit of a bummer but unbeknown to us, our regular vet left the practice so on one hand we have lost the continuity, on the other perhaps a fresh eye won't do any harm.

Anyhow, Sophie enjoyed a saucer of chicken at 7 30am. Due to the heat she skipped lunch and had her chicken and pasta at around five. She had a good day. I kept her in most of it due to the heat. She had a healthy poo in the evening which was a relief as she didn't go the previous day.

We were home during the evening and she went into her crate at around 10 30. At 11 30 we heard her being sick again. It was mostly plegm with a little food. She sept soundly all night.

This morning, she has enjoyed a saucer of chicken.

General notes, she is kept in during the hot weather and not fed at heat peak times. She is not excersised within an hour either side of eating.

Vet diet consists of just plain pasta boiled in water, and roasted chicken legs, obviously just the meat, no bone. Apart from that just water.

Yesterday, I queried why pasta and not rice. Hopefully this new vet may be able to give us some answers. Will let you know when he phones. He is consulting between 9 and 1 today but will try and call in between patients. ><

Just looked at the practice website. If it the vet we think it is he has two bull mastifs and a staffie himself, so hopefully he will be more aware of the problems eg sensitive tummies etc. that staffies suffer.

Is it phlegm? Or is it bile that comes up?

The missus here. Ow Gawd, more like plegm most of the time, but sometimes her tea/breakfast. Not really noticed any bile as such.

We saw the new vet this morning. Rather than wait for his call we popped into the surgery and he kindly saw us. I asked about why pasta and not rice and his response was it was best for a GI diet HOWEVER if Sophie hs developed an allergy to wheat this could be the problem. He has now suggested we switch to chicken and either rice or potato (one or the other all the time) and see how we get on.

We have chosen to go with the potato as she has been very sick with rice swelling in her tummy, despite it being fully cooked.

I expressed my concern that she wasn't getting all her food groups and he said we have to get this sorted first and then introduce multi vitamins to suppliment her diet before we start introducing more foods.

Will continue to keep her diary sheets as they will hopefully show up any pattern in what is going on with her. Will keep you posted.

Good choice with the potato, it's a good starting point for an exclusion diet IMO.

If it's phlegm then it would suggest something respiratory or something going on with her mucus membranes...

Bile ranges from whitish or yellow foamy stuff to quite liquid and usually suggests an empty tum.

Maybe calculate her recommended calorie intake to make sure she's getting enough food? The method I know of is to use RER (resting energy requirement), to get the RER, times her body weight in KGs by 30 then add 70. So if she weighs 18kg for example, you'd do (18 x 30) + 70 so would get 610kcal per day. Then you need to multiply the number you get by the number that corresponds to her activity levels,

Weight loss 1.0 x RER
Neutered adult normal activity 1.6 x RER
Intact adult normal activity 1.8 x RER
Light work 2.0 x RER
Moderate work 3.0 x RER
Heavy work 4-8 x RER
Pregnant dog (first 42 days) 1.8 x RER
Pregnant dog (last 21 days) 3.0 x RER
Lactating female 4-8 x RER
Puppy - weaning to 4 months 3.0 x RER
Puppy - 4 months to adult size 2.0 x RER

So using my example, for a neutered dog with normal activity levels, you'd times 610 by 1.6 and get 976kcals - that's roughly how many calories my example dog should be having per day.

Now you just need to find out the calorific values for chicken and potato!

Hope this helps and fingers crossed you get to the route of it soon.

bobs wrote:I expressed my concern that she wasn't getting all her food groups and he said we have to get this sorted first and then introduce multi vitamins to suppliment her diet before we start introducing more foods.

Don't worry too much at the moment about food groups. Dogs aren't the same as umans - they don't actually need all of the food groups in their diets! For example, they don't need grains & they don't need vegetables.

If you're concerned about vitamins/minerals, then have a look online for a 'natural remedy' site for dogs & ask their advice about adding a supplement that is hypoallergenic.

http://thedogherbalist.co.uk/
http://www.caninenaturalcures.co.uk/supplements.html

Hi Gladadriel >< The missus again.

Many thanks for the info. My son (24) is living in Zakinthos at the moment until the end of the summer. However, he is a committed weightlifter for the past ten years and knows a massive amount about nutrition.

What I will do, is email your calculations and whilst he may not be able to come back immediately he will come back with all the right calculations. He is currently deadlifting 35 stone and bench pressing over 20 stone. All done naturally with no steroid use.

He looks like he would scare the life out of you, but when he see's Sophie, he is melted into mush. He absolutely worships her and will do anything he can to help.

Will email the info in the morning, as he is working all night tonight.

Many thanks for all your help ><

No problem, hope it helps

The missus here. Update.

Since taking Sophie off pasta and replacing it with potato so far, She has not been sick once

Don't want to get our hopes up but this is encouraging.

wow brilliant news

some positive news..yah!!
lets hope this is the beginning of the end of all of Sophie's woes ( and yours!! )

Finger, toes, paws all crossed for you.

could she possibly have something small stuck in her throat, could b something small enough to make her vomit, but not choke her. Is she eating plants?? some are toxic. Have they done a scan? xx

bobs wrote:The missus here. Update.

Since taking Sophie off pasta and replacing it with potato so far, She has not been sick once

Don't want to get our hopes up but this is encouraging.

That's great fingers crossed it continues!

The missus here. No scan done and no toxic plants though many thanks for the suggestions. The vet hasn't suggested any foreign object in the throat, he is looking just at her diet. Bob will tell you I am a complete control freak when it comes to Sophie. She isn't left unsupervised for a moment even in the garden and all we have that she has access to is lawn.

When she is walked she carries a toy which stops her scavenging.

This is looking hopeful though we are keeping all our fingers and paws crossed.

The vet wanted to try the elimination diet before her having to have a general anaesthetic which would be needed for scans ect.

Will keep you posted ><