Legs giving way

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Hi all,

I have a 7.5-year-old male Staffie cross who went very out-of-sorts about three weeks ago.

I returned from work to find he'd been sick everywhere. He also wouldn't/couldn't move from the sofa and began growling if I approached.

His temperament has always been excellent - never a hint of aggression - so this was a flag that something was wrong.

Eventually coaxed from the sofa by chicken, I noticed he was limping heavily on his front left.
The vet ran some blood tests and also prescribed an NSAID, saying he suspected elbow dysplasia (dog is overweight), and to reduce his weight.

Over the next few days, the dog slept about 22 hours each day, refused to eat much, but his water consumption increased massively to roughly treble his normal intake. He was also sick frequently.

His lameness became very pronounced but would disappear completely every couple of days.

This was then followed by collapse in his other front leg, and extremely uncoordinated movement in his rear - like he was pushing backward as though on roller skates.

He was trembling/shaking continually throughout the day, didn't appear to "recognise" familiar faces and, when he did get up, would half-complete what he was going to do - eg get into his basket but, instead of turning around to see the whole kitchen (as he would normally), would sit facing the cupboard door for minutes, before turning round.

He also began to walk into things, as though temporarily blind.

I also noticed a small, hard white lump on the top of his head - between his ears. I can't explain it more than that, other than it's rock solid and growing out of his skin.

Another trip to the vet and more tests, including one for Cushing's, (negative) and a urine test for UTIs. The vet didn't think the white lump was significant.

The tests came back normal aside from being at the upper threshold for blood sugar, and cholesterol slightly elevated out of range. Thyroid function (T4 test, I believe) showed he was above the midpoint on the scale fairly comfortably.

He began standing facing walls, doors and was utterly disconnected from everything.

The vet advised small walks. 100 metres into one, he fell over - all four legs gave way and he had a glassy, vacant stare but remained fully conscious and did not fit.

Back to the vets, where I asked about tick borne illnesses and symptoms, but was told it wasn't tick season and the dog's rectal temperature was also normal (around 102 degrees).

The vet recommended Zylkene for anxiety. The dog has, until now, always been very confident and outgoing - isn't fazed by fireworks etc, so certainly isn't predisposed to being anxious.

Back home, the dog reacted very badly to anyone approaching him, and continued to sleep excessively.

He refused walking. His limping had all but ceased at this point, though he would just fall over, with various legs simply giving way. He would walk without limp, albeit looking like he was a bit drunk, then just keel over.

He also began to pee and poo anywhere in the house, which he's never, ever done before.

I noticed his neck is extremely rigid - like the muscle is cramped solid (like a brick wall to the touch), and his nose is discharging a lot of clear mucous, which dries white.

Back to the vets. In the vet's waiting room, his legs (differing ones) gave way three times while standing waiting for half an hour.

The vet insisted it was elbow dysplasia and that was that.

I took the dog home and rested him for a week. He's begun to perk up a little but has lost significant muscle mass and has begun to cry if he rolls over onto his back. His legs have stopped going out from under him and ALL signs of limping have disappeared, but his neck remains as stiff as a board, and he's walking in a "drunken" manner still.

The nose discharge has become heavier, though still clear.

His sleeping has reduced to about 12-14 hours a day but he's still "not himself" and keeps having freezes during movement and vacant stares.

His temperament has not improved, sadly - he'll sit and stare then, if you look back at him, he'll growl. He also growls if humans are eating. This is totally out of character and has never been seen in him before.

I'm going to a different vet tomorrow as I'm not happy with a diagnosis of elbow dysplasia. It surely doesn't cause all four limbs to sporadically give out, an ataxic gait, deep personality changes, and prolonged bouts of mental absence?

Sorry for the long post but as an experienced dog owner (five previously), who has a well-trained, sociable animal who was, up to three weeks ago seemingly in perfect health, and was a total pussycat, I'm both stumped and getting a bit desperate.

Any ideas, anyone?

Thanks.

Caryll wrote:OMG! So glad you decided to get a second opinion, the first vet should be ashamed of himself! I hope he's not going to be charging you full fees for your visits! Poor Marley could have been just a statistic by now.

How is he in himself now?

In fairness to all previous vets, the symptoms with lungworm are so diverse (presumably dependent on where the lungworm migrate to within the body), and the blood tests generally come back normal.

Two other things to note are that his breath had become exceptionally stinky leading up to the final stages and his voice had gone weird, like his vocal chords had been paralyzed - from what I can find online, these are symptomatic, too.

His voice and breath are normal now.

His fits stopped within a day of giving the initial lungworm treatment. This kills around 80% of lungworm on first pass - a follow-up is required a month later to effect complete treatment.

As to how he is in himself - his eyes are back with that sparkle and I took him out very slowly on a lead today and he was utterly aware of everything going on a long way away from him - eg other dogs, birds, motorbike noises etc.
I let him off his lead and he immediately ran - he couldn't walk properly for months - so I recalled him and put him back onto his lead immediately. Until the worms are out of his lungs, heart and wherever else they migrate to, it's not worth whatever risk they might present in terms of straining his internal organs.

I will need to weigh him this week - he honestly looks like he lost five kg or more in this past week alone - he's gone all "baggy".

Working dog wrote:

I will need to weigh him this week - he honestly looks like he lost five kg or more in this past week alone - he's gone all "baggy".

But at least he's alive!

kathytake2 wrote:Would be great to see some other pics of him Keith, have a look at the link below to post them on here:

https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/t12018-how-to-post-a-photos-onto-the-forum

I'll see what I can take.
Right now, I'm trying to edit together video of his various stages.
April, May and June were bad. The start of July was just horrendous.
I think you'll be shocked at what has been videod - it doesn't make for pleasant viewing - the seizures, head-pressing, collapse, being "locked in" to his own world and essentially being blind, unable to find his water bowl etc - it's like a very bad post-ictal phase which, of course, it may very well have been.

I'm just watching him now - rolling around on his back, jumping up and down off the furniture, chasing his tail, etc - doing all the mad stuff he used to do.

One thing does puzzle me though - when he wees, he tries to "roll" the puddle with his nose, as though trying to push it away. I have this on video too and it's bizarre.

You know, it would be really useful if you could put together a sort of diary that we could use as a sticky thread for anyone else out there who might have problems with lungworm.

Caryll wrote:

Working dog wrote:

I will need to weigh him this week - he honestly looks like he lost five kg or more in this past week alone - he's gone all "baggy".

But at least he's alive!

And constantly pawing the lead cupboard for his lead.
And trying to open the dinner cupboard with his nose.
And running back and forth between me and the sofa like it's a game of tag.

Working dog wrote:

Caryll wrote:

Working dog wrote:

I will need to weigh him this week - he honestly looks like he lost five kg or more in this past week alone - he's gone all "baggy".

But at least he's alive!

And constantly pawing the lead cupboard for his lead.
And trying to open the dinner cupboard with his nose.
And running back and forth between me and the sofa like it's a game of tag.

And you laughing at him & enjoying every second of it!

Caryll wrote:You know, it would be really useful if you could put together a sort of diary that we could use as a sticky thread for anyone else out there who might have problems with lungworm.

This is a very good idea Keith and could prevent other owners going through what you have had to endure.
I was thinking the same thing Caryll it would be very useful for other owners to have something as a reference.

Caryll wrote:You know, it would be really useful if you could put together a sort of diary that we could use as a sticky thread for anyone else out there who might have problems with lungworm.

Yes, I agree with this.
However, the caveat has to be that symptoms can be somewhat unique based on where the worms migrate to and how long post-infection the symptoms are being observed.

One thing I have been told for certain though is that you shouldn't expect bloodwork to show up anything amiss - not even white blood cells, platelets, etc, despite the blood thinning action.

The vet also said that it is not necessary to ingest snails or slugs - drinking from a water bowl that's been left outside for a snail to wander through it, or eating grass with a slime trail, or playing with toys that are left out overnight is sufficient. The lungworm in the stage the snails carry them are absolutely tiny - we're not talking about anything visible to the naked eye.

Caryll wrote:

Working dog wrote:

Caryll wrote:

Working dog wrote:

I will need to weigh him this week - he honestly looks like he lost five kg or more in this past week alone - he's gone all "baggy".

But at least he's alive!

And constantly pawing the lead cupboard for his lead.
And trying to open the dinner cupboard with his nose.
And running back and forth between me and the sofa like it's a game of tag.

And you laughing at him & enjoying every second of it!

Oh, we've bonded today like never before. He's promoted back to sleeping on the bed as of tonight, too.
He's doing the staffie singing whine thing at the mo trying to blag some of the biscuits I'm eating but it's not working.

kathytake2 wrote:

Caryll wrote:You know, it would be really useful if you could put together a sort of diary that we could use as a sticky thread for anyone else out there who might have problems with lungworm.

This is a very good idea Keith and could prevent other owners going through what you have had to endure.
I was thinking the same thing Caryll it would be very useful for other owners to have something as a reference.

Do you want it writing as a time-line, or a general overview?
I'd be quite happy to put something together tomorrow.
Again, the board needs to take into account that this is all on the balance of probability - though weighted with a very high probability - that we are, in fact, dealing with lungworm - even testing his feces or having a BAL flush test performed is no guarantee.

Wow!
So so happy for you and Marley.
Thank you for taking the time to share such a detailed update. I found it really interesting...good lessons for all of us...and I know we are all thrilled about the happy ending

Working dog wrote:

kathytake2 wrote:

Caryll wrote:You know, it would be really useful if you could put together a sort of diary that we could use as a sticky thread for anyone else out there who might have problems with lungworm.

This is a very good idea Keith and could prevent other owners going through what you have had to endure.
I was thinking the same thing Caryll it would be very useful for other owners to have something as a reference.

Do you want it writing as a time-line, or a general overview?
I'd be quite happy to put something together tomorrow.
Again, the board needs to take into account that this is all on the balance of probability - though weighted with a very high probability - that we are, in fact, dealing with lungworm - even testing his feces or having a BAL flush test performed is no guarantee.

I think maybe a timeline (plus videos if you can), but with a 'conclusion' at the end. By all means mention that you're dealing with possibilities/probabilities, but if it helps someone else to point a vet in the right direction then it'll be worth it!

micheled wrote:Wow!
So so happy for you and Marley.
Thank you for taking the time to share such a detailed update. I found it really interesting...good lessons for all of us...and I know we are all thrilled about the happy ending

Thanks for the support.

Caryll wrote:

Working dog wrote:

kathytake2 wrote:

Caryll wrote:You know, it would be really useful if you could put together a sort of diary that we could use as a sticky thread for anyone else out there who might have problems with lungworm.

This is a very good idea Keith and could prevent other owners going through what you have had to endure.
I was thinking the same thing Caryll it would be very useful for other owners to have something as a reference.

Do you want it writing as a time-line, or a general overview?
I'd be quite happy to put something together tomorrow.
Again, the board needs to take into account that this is all on the balance of probability - though weighted with a very high probability - that we are, in fact, dealing with lungworm - even testing his feces or having a BAL flush test performed is no guarantee.

I think maybe a timeline (plus videos if you can), but with a 'conclusion' at the end. By all means mention that you're dealing with possibilities/probabilities, but if it helps someone else to point a vet in the right direction then it'll be worth it!

I'll knock something up tomorrow and perhaps email it to a moderator for approval first before starting a thread.
Any moderator emails available?
The video will take a while - it's full 1080p for the most-part at around 1GB per 5 minutes. I have several hundred gibabytes that will need formatting to mpeg from quicktime, then editing, then uploading to a host.

I have to laugh right now, but it's been absolutely hammering it down with rain for hours and I'd forgotten to let him out.

He's been running up and down between sofa and me for an hour - I took it as him trying out his new-found fitness - but it was actually a sign he wanted a wee (never barks, just paces when it's time for a squirt).

I have just caught him with a desperate look of guilt on his face widdling into his bed girl-style all squatted down, as though I wouldn't notice. My fault entirely.

Normally, he cocks his leg and looks dead proud.

I have just read your posts and you have both been through such a horrific ordeal, I think I would have had a break down. Thank you for the lungworm awareness, I really didnt think Marley would survive this - im so happy after reading the full story!! Congratulations on his recovery at long last, you must be incredibly happy!

nic01354 wrote:I have just read your posts and you have both been through such a horrific ordeal, I think I would have had a break down. Thank you for the lungworm awareness, I really didnt think Marley would survive this - im so happy after reading the full story!! Congratulations on his recovery at long last, you must be incredibly happy!

Thanks.
I am very happy and relieved.
He's not out of the woods yet - the lungworms dying can present more problems - but it is looking hopeful.
Funny you mention break down - it felt absolutely desperate, particularly when the vets suggest one thing but then can't get the symptoms to stack up - for instance, brain tumour is suggested but then neurological deficits can't be shown.
I'm used to reading a lot for my MSc, so have trawled through a large chunk of the Merck veterinary manual over the past 10 days or so (have taken time off work) and am staggered by the crossover in symptoms of a lot of illnesses, infections and diseases.

hi there you have been though the wars glad he feels better

So pleased to hear there's a good prognosis! Fingers crossed for a full and speedy recovery

We don't have pm enabled on the forum. Try to keep it as small as poss (difficult, I know) so that it isn't difficult for someone new to it to read through. When you're ready, just post it on the health & fitness forum & we'll thrash out the final draft together!

This has made my day, I am so happy to read this and find they have finally made a correct diagnosis! Its amazing that the symptoms have dissapeared so quickly, I guess the treatment must work rapidly which must be a relief. So pleased for you and Marley and I'm also really happy that you stuck in there and did everything you could for him. Your dedication is humbling.

Thanks, all, for the good wishes.

It's tricky ground here to say that it's conclusively lungworm since no clinical diagnosis was made - just a balance of probabilities one.

I'm aware that it might yet prove to be something else but, watching Marley grow healthier day-by-day over the past week, and all symptoms subside, then disappear, aside from a touch of lingering stiffness, I'm inclined to strongly believe that the correct treatment has been administered.

That's really good, Keith - thanks!

Wow! I've been following Marleys progress since I've joined the forum and its like a miracle! Marley has certainly got a guardian angel in you

You must be incredibly relieved and I really sincerely wish Marley a speedy recovery. After all that you have been through, all I can say is you are a model owner and you should be very proud of yourself and Marley. Not everybody would have done what you did.

Thanks.
I'm just a firm believer in exhausting all avenues and asking lots of questions.

We've just come back from a slooooooow one mile walk.

His stamina isn't back yet, and he's still quite weak, but we managed a mile over the space of an hour. He was fully alert and into everything, just like he used to be.

We came back and he jumped onto the sofa no problem - the spinal pain/stiffness appears to be receding quickly.

I should be able to return to work tomorrow but will leave video cameras up around the house to see what goes on.

It's six days since his last seizure and I hope that continues - he had been having them twice a day every day at the start of the month.

MARLEY'S LUNGWORM JOURNEY IS NOW A 'STICKY' THREAD IN THE HEALTH & FITNESS FORUM.

Wow what a story, I've just read through it all, thanks so much for doing the sticky I'm sure it will be of benefit and support to others in a similar situation.

No problems.

Just to add, today has been awesome.
He's still stiff and weak but is interacting completely normally - nudging for food, weeing outside, jumping up and down on the sofa, wandering about with purpose rather than pacing, "smiling" that wide-mouthed staffy grin, responding to words - walkies, dindins, do you want to go out, etc.

He's like his old self, minus a bit of energy.

I'm a bit concerned at how he's trying to run - it's all bunny-hopping and shuffling but I guess the spinal pain will take a while to subside.

He's been restarted today on gabapentin for that - it's for neurological pain (I think it's indicated for things such as shingles in humans).

It's just gone 10pm and guess who wants another walk.

It's great that he is wanting to do things, just try to take it easy

I take gabapentin myself to help with my back pain. I bet you are looking forward to each day now rather than dreading it. Take care.

Three big seizures tonight - two were over three minutes long, the third was about four minutes long. They occurred at 1am, 2am and 3am, almost on the dot. All three were full-on legs flying, head going, teeth everywhere.

Five by 10:15am. All long ones.
He's had enough suffering.

Oh, sh*t, that's terrible. Has he settled in the garden, or is he the same?

Could it just be part of the recovery? Maybe the drugs haven't had full effect yet?

I really don't envy you with any decision you now have to make. Whatever you decide, I know that you've done everything you possibly can with him.

Let us know how things go.

Its strange sounds like something neurological or possibly a brain tumour. Such a shame, I thought you had cracked it this time. Thoughts are with you but I understand that if he was in that zone and you couldn'y snap him out of it must have been scary. You have to be sure you dont get injured thats a priority.

Sorry I am going to straight to the point, I think this guy has suffered enough already and it's time to put him out of it. You have been very strong through it all and tried every avenue possible.

I have seen a dog having seizures and it is not pleasant at all to witness. goodness knows what he is going through. I think you know what the answer is too. It is not an easy decision to make, many of us here have had to make it and I'm sure they would all agree with me.

Go back and have another chat with the good vet. Ask him what the prognosis is, and if the damage done with the neurotoxins from lungworm is permanent (if it is lungworm) I'm sure the vet will be able to help you make the decision we all hate to have to make if necessary.

Just a quick entry to say that Marley went peacefully to Rainbow Bridge at 12:15pm today.

He fought to the end.

Rest In Peace daddy's little man. We will always love you.

Thankyou all for your support and kindness.

Well done for having the courage to do it. You know it was the kindest thing to do.

Please feel free to come back and have a good rant whenever you need to.

Maybe after time you will be able to open your heart to another special friend.

RIP Marley, run free.

I know you will miss him terribly, but you have done the right thing. You'll meet again at Rainbow Bridge & all his problems will have gone. He'll be the fantastic companion you made him.

It would be great if you could stick around & chat with us from time to time. Please believe that we are here for you if you need to talk or even have a rant.

RIP little man xx

You did everything for him at least he's at peace now. xx

My thoughts are with you at this sad time..... you should be proud though that you did everything possible.. which doesn't make it any easier !

he is running pain free at Rainbow Bridge....

please take care XX ><

So sorry for your loss , a brave and correct choice to make , please stick with us and let us share it with you >< ><

RIP little one.

You will save many more lives by telling this story - so thank you.

I know it is little comfort at a time like this but try and gain some solace knowing that you and Marley fought hard and long and he knows this and is a peace now and he will want you to be peaceful too.

RIP Marley. Your story will serve others well.

RIP Marley.

Please do come on here we all feel your pain.

I'm so sorry, at least he will be out of pain now.

Thanks all.
I'm still raw and trying to make sense of it all but also trying not to think about it, if that makes sense.
House is so empty, it's unreal.

Good to hear from you again.

We're here if you need us.

Please feel free to talk away any time, someone will always be here to talk with you. Ive lost dogs myself, two within a week of eachother, so i definitely know how hard it is. Just take comfort in the fact that you did everything the best owner of a dog ever could.

Come on here anytime. Your pain will be with you always, but you will learn to live your days again.

Marley's ashes have come home.
Rest In Peace little man.

Happier times: https://s1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii487/oumaths/Marley/?action=view&current=bestone_.mp4

He made it onto a Japanese video clips tv show with the above rendition.

>< >< s

Just saw this, I am so sorry.
We are all here to help you in any way we can.