Blue puppies.

First topic message reminder :


So today I start the search for my pup. I quite like the blue coated dogs, but I'm curious with the blue eyes is this just a puppy thing do they change colour? Also quite a few of the puppies, don't laugh, are quite pink?! is just because the fur is still forming?

byb breeding soley for the blue color created a huge problem for APBT's in America. the blues are prone to temperment issues as well as other health problems. Staffies are not APBT's, but the fact is byb who breed for color only disregard health to do this. i don't think all blues are at higher risk, just the one's bred for color only.

Andy wrote:I had this debate a while ago as some may remember ( ) ... and I have to say I still havent really seen enough hard evidence to prove the case that there are skin disorder's more dominant in blues, or that blues have any more skin probs than any other colour :-$ .. thats all I'm saying

Andy has left the building

Have a look in this week's Dog World - there's a bit in it about blues from a well known staff breeder.

check the parents make sure they have papers and the DNA test.

Steve wrote: > i can feel deja vu, breeding two blue it nearly as bad has breeding 2 white together me i wouldn't pay anything for a pup that had 2 blue parents because there it more of a chance then other colours you going have problems except whites.

Are whites really bad then?!??!

depend who you get the white pup from but breeding 2 white dog together is a really bad idea

SKYE is a full colour with no white markings just like her dad 'BO', he has exceptional blood lines which include Bo's father 'MISTER BLOO' his gran father 'JOLSONS BLUE BOY' and his great gran father CH VANORIC VOO DOO.

Here he is looking so proud:

BO father of SKYE



This is 'Dolcie' the mother of the litter, she is 3 years old and has a number of champions on the pedigree which include,
'CH THE MALASER MAULER'
'CH ROGUE SAGA'
'CH BLACK TUSKER'
CH CONSTONES YER MAN'



SKYE:


All loving family pets with great temperament.

IMO that bad breeding when breeding for a blue you should always have a black or black brindle parent

OUCH!

I hope I don't run into problems

I tried to do everything right, got the pupy through the Kennel Club, made sure all papers correct, wormed, met the puppy's parents made sure they had the DNA test etc etc.

I'm a little worried now

I tried to make sure everything was fine, Kennal Club registered, both dogs DNA tested, 5 generation pedigree, checked her parents... etc etc, I hope I don't run into problems, had her first vet visit last week and all was 100% healthy.

Had absolutely no idea about the potential weakness in blue staffies, as i actually thought it was a strong genetic colour (you learn something new everyday).

In regards to white being undesirable, perhaps thats why Heston was in the Rescue centre then? It is not my intention to breed from him and still love him regardless of his colour (or lack of)!

Unfortunately there was another Staffy next to Heston's kennel, she was all white & deaf. Just checked the NAWT Somerset website and she is still there, poor girl http://www.nawt.org.uk/somerset/animal_show.asp?id=4254

Rob Jarvis wrote:I'm a little worried now

I tried to make sure everything was fine, Kennal Club registered, both dogs DNA tested, 5 generation pedigree, checked her parents... etc etc, I hope I don't run into problems, had her first vet visit last week and all was 100% healthy.

not all blue are unhealthy but when you breed 2 blue together you increase the risk of problems

Rob Jarvis wrote:I'm a little worried now

I tried to make sure everything was fine, Kennal Club registered, both dogs DNA tested, 5 generation pedigree, checked her parents... etc etc, I hope I don't run into problems, had her first vet visit last week and all was 100% healthy.

I wouldnt worry mate , things like this can be blown outa proportion, any dog that is bred for colour alone, with no real regard for breed standards by BYB's are obviously not gonna be very good example's, and as a result prone to ailments of all sorts.

Max is a fine example of the breed (as far as I'm concerned), has a good background, fully health clear parents, very good Pedigree, and has very little blue in his background ... but he still ended up a washed out blue brindle (like his dad) which is what made me go for him TBH, (the whole package that is, not just colour) I love the look his dad has, and luckily Max has got his dads build and colour ... with absolutly no problems what so ever .... there are quite a few blues on here alone, and I dont remember seeing a single one yet that has a problem that is a result of their colour

Just enjoy your beautifull little girl, and dont worry

i to have a total healthy blue .
but some blues iv seen you can see there a problem waiting to happen(not on the forum but out and about)some are so baddly breed that hard to see the staffie in them ie hight and muscle mass

brophski wrote:I thought if I had both parents blue I would be safe. Can you end up with another colour entirely as it grows up?

when we got bruno at 7 weeks, he was all blue then i think when he got to about 16 weeks, he got some brindle coming through, the brindle isn't really noticeable to me unless i look hard or the sun is on him Bruno's mum was blue with a tiny bit of brindle on her head and his dad was blue with no other colour in him and i think changing colour can go back to generations kinda thing.


We've had bruno a year now from 7 weeks and had no health problems other being sick or diahorrea cos he ate something that he should of, silly boy, but i think it doesn't really matter about the colour as long the dog is healthy. I was a bit upset when the brindle came out but i think that is just part of his character now and wouldn't want him any other way, he's my world

I feel very strongly about this subject !

Poor quality blues ( as in pigment issues such as white or yellow claws unless on white patches of hair on feet, light or blue eyes, grey nose)from BYB, unregistered bred purely for color is not right.

U cannot say all blues are the same, they aren't. Reputable breeders, health tested, DNA tested and pairings picked specifically for traits is not to make a quick buck.

I spent a long time trying to find the right one, after falling in love with a cute blue and White puppy I was told it had papers, was registered, full pedigree etc I arranged to go see it only to find out when I rang again the price had been increased and they weren't registered or pedigree.

Thankfully I found a good breeder

I think anyone needs to do their homework, and if u have, and u know and understand what u have bought then u can't go far wrong.

Also Blue is a recognised color, so I really do fail to see the issue with well bread blues.

That's my 2 pennies worth

Xx

What types of problems are caused by breeding for color?

The most common health problems associated with blue coated dogs are skin diseases--ranging from hot spots to allopecia (baldness) to mange. While most of these conditions are treatable, they can be stubborn to resolve and the cumulative cost can be expensive.

According to this article on the genetics of color found in The Encyclopedia of the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, the cells that create pigmentation interact closely with the neurological and immune systems. The article suggests that this may explain why dogs with recessive coloration seem more susceptible to nervous conditions and immune disorders. Consider, for example, the high incidences of deafness, low vision and temperament issues that are associated with white, merle and harlequin dogs.

A number of breeders state prominently on their websites that blue staffords are known to be more susceptible to bacterial, viral and fungal infections and they will not guarantee their blue staffords pups or those with blue parents against skin disorders.

nothing wrong with blues the only problem is when you bred the 2 blue together a good breeder wont breed 2 together one of the parent will be black or black brindle.

Again u are generalising Blues.

There are low quality blue with pigment issues and good quality blues with no pigment issues whatsoever.

Breed 2 staffys with pigment issues like all the BYBs do and yea u are breeding a more dilute color cause what u started with had faults in the first place.

good quality blues = are with black/black brindle parents or even better 2 black/black brindle parents

low quality blue = with 2 blue parents

define what u belive is low quality.

IF a carefully bred blue staffy [with blue parents] meets ALL Kennel Club breed standards, how can it be classed 'low quality' ?

for example - my staffy [from blue parents] is pure pedigree carrying many CH in her 5 yr pedigree, she fits the breed standard... yet you would classify her as low quality ?

I dont get how u can tar all blues with the same brush, makes not sence whatsoever.

when breeding 2 blue dog breed read the infor below & dont matter if the 2 dog are in the standard you incrase the rich of health problem......

What types of problems are caused by breeding for color?

The most common health problems associated with blue coated dogs are skin diseases--ranging from hot spots to allopecia (baldness) to mange. While most of these conditions are treatable, they can be stubborn to resolve and the cumulative cost can be expensive.

According to this article on the genetics of color found in The Encyclopedia of the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, the cells that create pigmentation interact closely with the neurological and immune systems. The article suggests that this may explain why dogs with recessive coloration seem more susceptible to nervous conditions and immune disorders. Consider, for example, the high incidences of deafness, low vision and temperament issues that are associated with white, merle and harlequin dogs.

A number of breeders state prominently on their websites that blue staffords are known to be more susceptible to bacterial, viral and fungal infections and they will not guarantee their blue staffords pups or those with blue parents against skin disorders.

Will keep an eye on her skin as i would with any puppy, I checked the pedigree generation and found no faults and all had champions in the family, I'll do my utmost to give her the best start in life regarding her diet too.

Jackieb wrote:define what u belive is low quality.

IF a carefully bred blue staffy [with blue parents] meets ALL Kennel Club breed standards, how can it be classed 'low quality' ?

for example - my staffy [from blue parents] is pure pedigree carrying many CH in her 5 yr pedigree, she fits the breed standard... yet you would classify her as low quality ?

I dont get how u can tar all blues with the same brush, makes not sence whatsoever.

You have a gorgeous dog and u should be very proud of her But unfortunatley she doesnt fit the standard as the standard calls for a black nose and dark brown eyes and u very rarely find a blue with the carrect pigmenation as its not just the colour of the coat thats a diluted black its everything. What steve is saying is by breeding to black brindle parents with the blue gene with the correct pigmentation it gives a higher chance of better pigmentation in any blue pups that may crop up

I still think ppl generalise way too much - and for the record, the breed standard does not state dark brown eyes or a black nose. [not that i can see anyway]

It states Dark Eye Rims. [which my Diesel does have as well as hazel color eyes, and i do consider her to have a black nose... may not come across so well in the pics i guess..]

" Eyes: Dark preferred but may bear some relation to coat colour. Round, of medium size, and set to look straight ahead. Eye rims dark. "

Anyway I apologise if ive sounded rather defensive but it grinds my gears when pedigree blues are put in the same category as BYB blues.

xxx

Jackieb wrote:I still think ppl generalise way too much - and for the record, the breed standard does not state dark brown eyes or a black nose. [not that i can see anyway]

You're actually quite wrong there - the UK breed standard states that the nose should be black....

"Head and Skull: Short, deep through with broad skull. Very pronounced cheek muscles, distinct stop, short fore face, nose black."

Jackieb wrote:i do consider her to have a black nose.. may not come across so well in the pics i guess..]

I must admit that, although the avatar pic may be deceptive, her nose looks dark grey, not black. Nothing at all wrong with that, she's still a beautiful dog, but not breed standard.

So can a blue dog ever have a black nose?

memphis nose is black

Show us a pic then

See I would say Rommel has a black nose but if you look at it really closely you can see it's a very dark grey

just after i sprayed it lol

That's the same colour as Rommels but I think it would be classed as grey not black. Here's Rommel's:

What I'm trying to say (I think) is that if it is not possible for a blue to have a black nose then why is blue a recognised colour? It's funny the breed standard takes into account a possible difference in eye colour dependent on the coat colour but not a difference in nose colour.

I have seen a blue with a black nose. Mind you, it was a very dark blue.

The difference between accepting a slightly lighter eye & not a lighter nose is simply pigment. The eye isn't affected in the same way as the skin pigment, and so may be a little lighter than normal if the main coat colour is, say, red. A dark eye is still, however, preferred.

Just out of interest, and I genuinly wouldn't be offended, but how close do you think Mia is to breed standard, there's some good pics in the Feb female puppy comp to judge on!!

She's only young so the colour may change

Grey, I'm afraid. But what a beauty!

*Karen* wrote:Just out of interest, and I genuinly wouldn't be offended, but how close do you think Mia is to breed standard, there's some good pics in the Feb female puppy comp to judge on!!

Physically she looks great. I'd say that her eyes are probably a tad too light & her ears aren't the neatest, but unless you're going to show her, what does it matter? She's beautiful!

Caryll wrote:Grey, I'm afraid. But what a beauty!

Thanks, just like to have some opinions as obviosuly I'm biased when I'm looking at her!!!

*Karen* wrote:

Caryll wrote:Grey, I'm afraid. But what a beauty!

Thanks, just like to have some opinions as obviosuly I'm biased when I'm looking at her!!!

The 'grey' bit was aimed at the blue pup!

she is beautiful

Oops! I thought u meant mia's nose was grey!!

I think all the blues here are gorgeous, standard or not. I think that standards apply if you are interested in a show dog. But then again if you were into shows, your investigations would give you the criteria for the pup you choose.

At the end of the day our dogs are all fabulous!

Nope the blue eyes go stan n hooch both had blue eyes as a pup stans are now some kinda green colour and hoochs are brown.

Stans parents were not kc reg his mum was black and dad red.

Hoochs parents were both kc reg and both parents blue.

Stan has skin problems not major but he still has them.

Major difference in price paid for them thou £750 difference.

The best blues come from black parents not blue parents because blue is a dilute of black.

Having said that i would not change my boys for anything not even the best blues by breed standard in the world because too me my two are the best.

Bright blue as a pup

his crazy eyes now

Rob Jarvis wrote:OUCH!

I hope I don't run into problems

I tried to do everything right, got the pupy through the Kennel Club, made sure all papers correct, wormed, met the puppy's parents made sure they had the DNA test etc etc.

Hi I am new to this forum, but me too, I have just recently got a blue pup just purely because of the ones I have seen, I also have a red brindle staff who is taking to the puppy just fine, a bit boisterous but nothing I don't think to worry about.....

I got the puppy from a KC registered breeder, all tested, DNA etc, my vet thinks he is stunner, but again I did not know there was such controversial debate about blue staffs!!!!

Definitely read up on them but obviously not enough, this will be my third staffy so I would like to think I know a little about them and how to treat them etc......

Hope he stays well and blue !!

Hi guys,
I have always had staffs since I can remember and love the breed. I am currently looking for a pup and thinking of getting a blue, but I was wondering does the colour of a blue affect temperament?

Unless there is some really bad breeding from a back yard breeder then I wouldn't think there would be any noticeable difference. Make sure you do the usual checks regarding health and their breeders care before parting with any cash. You might also want to check the COI which can be done from the KC web site.

the colour doesn't affect temperament, but does affect health.

if the pup is a result of a blue to blue mating there's a higher chance of colour dilution alopecia & general allergies.

blue to blue matings aren't good practice, but do ensure blue pups which means more money for the breeders.

Much appreciated