just read an article about dog attacks that freaked me out!

Hi,
I was googling some info on techniques to stop staffys jumping up on children (fairly standard staffy stuff) and came across a british article on dog attacks. Now ive read alot of this stuff before and come to the conclusion that its to do with the dogs training, socialisation and history etc.. Certainly not breed specific and this article wasnt breed specific either although it certainly included a number of english staffies. Now what did concern me was the number of articles that mentioned situations where friendly well socialised dogs suddenly attacked family members out of the blue without any provocation. In particular, jumping up and ripping off a childs face/neck. It discussed reasons such as trying to retain its position in family ranking, seeing children as prey if they scream and run around and redirected aggression/frustration. Now this sort of attack does scare me a little as im not sure how you prevent this from happening? Does anyone have any ideas as to why this may happen and if a fairly well balanced dog could truly behave this way?
Im concerned because my staffy is very dominant and has, despite our best efforts slotted herself into the family hierarchy after myself, my husband and oldest child, but above my younger two. She jumps up on the younger two alot and when they play outside can actually jump up and nip them. We can not allow our children outside unsupervised anymore because theyre too scared, but if i correct her she stops.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated

I think about 90% of the time either the dog is being looked after by someone else (like an uncle or a grandmother) or is owned by someone else (again uncle and grans) and even though they know the person and child they are out of their normal home/situation and everyone knows most dogs react badly to change. Also kids are bloomin annoying.

Also kids shouldnt be unsupervised with any dog or animal at all.

Thanks, i think it was just google induced panic! LOL.
Stellar jumps at the kids because their excitement winds her up too much, she certainly isnt aggressive. Im a relatively new staffy owner and whilst i adore her and she is by far the best dog we have ever had, im still getting used to public perception! I definately need to have more faith in stellar and our training.

They are known as a nanny dog and are great with familys and kids. However, children espically young children should never be left alone unsupervised. You have to train them not to jump up. Simply turn your back and ignore them and they will catch on. Everyone in the house needs to react in the same way so they don't get confused though

Rocchet wrote:
Now what did concern me was the number of articles that mentioned situations where friendly well socialised dogs suddenly attacked family members out of the blue without any provocation. In particular, jumping up and ripping off a childs face/neck.

I wouldn't believe this. I remember quite a lot of articles describing dog attacks: in most of the cases people either had an adult dog only for a short while (adopted, bought/taken from their friend etc) or the person attacked wasn't actually a member of a family (closest family) but some cousin, friend's child etc.
and almost always there is 'a provocation' - most usually, it is leaving a young small child with a dog unsupervised. you shouldn't ever do it, whatever type the dog is... kids can be very bullying,of course they're not aware of this so it's up to parents to make sure their kids, acting like all kids do, stay safe. dogs are animals, some are more patient than others, but most of the dogs will respond if something annoys them...
usually the reason why a dog attacks 'family members' it's because the dogs are not trained well enough, I don;t believe they are well socialised as you said, or have some rough past that current owners don't know how to cope with.

Before we got Charlie, I looked through alot of stuff online about dangerous dogs, which were best around children etc. I was absolutely staggered by the amount of staffy attacks I found and decided I definitely would not be bringing a staffy into my home with my 3 young children.

Upon more research, it became clear that people would say a staffy, or staffy type, when it was clearly neither. I also looked at the fact that of over 160 dogs in the KC, there are only 2 breeds whose suitability around children is mentioned in their breed standards, one of them being a staffy. Then I met my dad's staffy, put that together with everything I researched and decided to to go for it. I have never looked back. Charlie is the most amazing dog and I trust him 100%. That being said, I wouldn't leave him alone with young children because accidents happen. My twins are four, and he's fab with them. He wrestles with them and they climb all over him and use him as a pillow (check it out in the gallery 'Charlie with my twins') and while I KNOW he'd never hurt them intentionally, accidents can happen. I'm not as worried about my 8 year old, she has alot of control over him and if I'm nipping out to make a cup of tea or nip to the loo, I don't her being with him for 5 mins, although I know many here will frown on that.

It really does all come down to how a dog is raised, and that's why you need to make yours understand that she is the bottom of the pack. How old are your youngest? If possible, have them do the feeding, supervise them doing some basic training with her and correct her each and every time she shows any kind of dominance over them.

Staffies are amazing with children, half the articles we read are mis quoted and mis informed.

A dog wont react to nothing, there is always a reason even if we can't see what it is!

I think leaving an 8yo with your dog is okay, 8yos (esp girls) are old enough to know what theyre doing. Its sad that only staffy or staffy type bites are reported (and blown up).

Noone ever reports when the family chihuahua or nans poodle bit little franks finger when he stuck it up their bum.

instead its uncle bruces staffy that licked your friends face on skype was mauled!

To avoid situations like this, don't leave your dog with anyone but yourself, you know your dog, how to control it and what signs to look out for..i hope, don't even leave it alone with adults never mind children that is just extremely foolish.
I think any one who leaves a non adult alone with a dog not a staff not a poodle a dog is asking for trouble whether the child is old enough to understand from right and wrong and what not to do that not does mean an accident can not happen and those owners are irresponsible parents/gardians relatives and dog owners, and most are to blame for all the problems these dogs are having when it comes to under age people being attacked/snapped at. why take the risk? and in these cases excuses don't save lives responsibility does.

I agree that all dog attacks involve some kind of provocation, this isn't always clear to many incidents and so the staffie gets a bad name once again. It is so true though that many incidents of dog attacks go un-reported. I know my nephew was bitten by a yorkshire terrier who was tied up outside a shop, but nothing was said about that because it was just a little yorkie who can't do much damage. The problem with staffies and people's perception is that they are powerful dogs if provoked to the degree where they will attack, and so will do some damage. It always gets me though how it comes to that, I know that if my dog gets a little overexcited, or jumps etc she is corrected instantly. She started nipping a few weeks ago and after a couple of times having to correct her she doesn't do it. And even though her nipping was more playful mouthing, it was still something we discouraged. But then that's the problem, if the dog and children are supervised and you know how to properly watch the dog's body language and the children to prevent them teasing the dog, then attacks shouldn't happen. Because it should never be allowed to get to that stage.
Saying this, I never leave my children, 4years and 2 years, alone with the dog, bit of a pain having to seperate them if I nip upstairs etc but in the long run safety and prevention is paramount. Something which should be considered with any dog and not just a staffie.
And regardless of how much I trust our staff, I wouldn't leave her unattended in the garden with the children for any amount of time. She gets very excited outside, as do the children and both running around together unsupervised is asking for trouble in my opinion.

Agreed so many of these attacks can be so easily prevented, when like you mentioned about simple things like playful mouthing and jumping, playing levels should never be allowed to escalate to a high or even a medium level and that in it self will prevents all these "accidents"
but people just seem to laugh it off until it is too late.
naturally young animals learn from play and boisterous play how to use those techniques and levels of energy to attack successfully when older. Dogs have been domesticated but are still predatory animals. people forget that and it ends badly a vast majority of the time.

We don't allow playful mouthing at all, just a personal choice. But my feelings on it are that if allowed she won't know that she can hurt the children easier than she can me and Ian when mouthing etc. So if she does do this to any of us she is discouraged. Our little boy who is 2 likes to sit in her bed with her, and he plays with her feet, strokes her etc. He has a fascination about her mouth and teeth and so lifts her lips to see her teeth, this normally means she mouths him gently. I discourage both her and Harrison to teach them both not to do this. Harrison is still young and doesn't understand why not to do this, because she has never hurt him with mouthing, but we still discourage her so that he knows he shouldn't be teasing her like that and she shouldn't mouth either. The trick that works best with her is if she does mouth, she is told No (even Harrison now does this, and calls her a naughty girl) and we move away from her, to another room for a few minutes. Seems to have worked well with her and we do the same with jumping. Although now she only jumps when she realises she is going for a walk!
But I do think knowing the body language of a dog is vital to understand what they are thinking and to know when they have had enough or the kids playing with them. And especially so with young children, they don't understand so it is down to an adult to supervise their play together!

Scubasteve wrote:
But I do think knowing the body language of a dog is vital to understand what they are thinking and to know when they have had enough or the kids playing with them. And especially so with young children, they don't understand so it is down to an adult to supervise their play together!

It is very important so many dogs get chucked in shelters put down for lip curling and growling but this does not mean aggression its communication and its only when those behaviours are applied with the body language that you truly know what is going on with the dog and how to react.

Same with cat people think purring is a sign the cat is happy its not always the case and they learn the hard way.

MissRogue wrote:To avoid situations like this, don't leave your dog with anyone but yourself, you know your dog, how to control it and what signs to look out for..i hope, don't even leave it alone with adults never mind children that is just extremely foolish.
I think any one who leaves a non adult alone with a dog not a staff not a poodle a dog is asking for trouble whether the child is old enough to understand from right and wrong and what not to do that not does mean an accident can not happen and those owners are irresponsible parents/gardians relatives and dog owners, and most are to blame for all the problems these dogs are having when it comes to under age people being attacked/snapped at. why take the risk? and in these cases excuses don't save lives responsibility does.

Excuse me but are you trying to say that I am an irresponsible parent and a bad owner?! My daughter is very sensible, and would never do anything to provoke Charlie, and as we all know, they will not just snap without provocation. A dog is as likely to turn on an adult who provokes as it is to turn on a child, but there are few stories of them turning on adults because adults know not to provoke them, as does my daughter. I will NOT have someone say I am an irresponsible parent, or that I am to blame for all the problems the dogs are having concerning children being attacked! My daughter has been raised around dogs from a very young age and can read their body language as well as you can. She knows when to back off, and what not to do around a dog. I trust my dog and I trust my daughter, at least enough to be alone for a few minutes. I don't leave Charlie with any other children, and I wouldn't leave my daughter alone with any other dog.

Equi wrote:Also kids shouldnt be unsupervised with any dog or animal at all.

This is the most important take away message! Do not set up your dog for failure and you won't end up in the paper.

shontelle wrote:

MissRogue wrote:To avoid situations like this, don't leave your dog with anyone but yourself, you know your dog, how to control it and what signs to look out for..i hope, don't even leave it alone with adults never mind children that is just extremely foolish.
I think any one who leaves a non adult alone with a dog not a staff not a poodle a dog is asking for trouble whether the child is old enough to understand from right and wrong and what not to do that not does mean an accident can not happen and those owners are irresponsible parents/gardians relatives and dog owners, and most are to blame for all the problems these dogs are having when it comes to under age people being attacked/snapped at. why take the risk? and in these cases excuses don't save lives responsibility does.

Excuse me but are you trying to say that I am an irresponsible parent and a bad owner?! My daughter is very sensible, and would never do anything to provoke Charlie, and as we all know, they will not just snap without provocation. A dog is as likely to turn on an adult who provokes as it is to turn on a child, but there are few stories of them turning on adults because adults know not to provoke them, as does my daughter. I will NOT have someone say I am an irresponsible parent, or that I am to blame for all the problems the dogs are having concerning children being attacked! My daughter has been raised around dogs from a very young age and can read their body language as well as you can. She knows when to back off, and what not to do around a dog. I trust my dog and I trust my daughter, at least enough to be alone for a few minutes. I don't leave Charlie with any other children, and I wouldn't leave my daughter alone with any other dog.

No child should be left alone with any animal that "can" cause it injury that is a fact! no matter how soft the animal has been previousely it is still an animal that could possibly be a risk.

No matter how good the driver a child should always wear a seatbelt (because you NEVER know)

But you could say that of a nasty cat! Any animal will react if provoked, the thing that needs to be taught to children is not to provoke the animal and that is exactly what I have done!

People used to leave dogs with children to guard them, people let their children walk their dog alone, what happened to the ideas that dog is man's best friend? As long as a child is taught from a young age how to behave around a dog, there shouldn't be a problem. Dogs can and have done serious damage to adults, and there are PLENTY of adults out there who have less of a clue about dogs than children that have been raised responsibly around them, are you saying that dogs should be kept away from all adults too, just in case?

shontelle wrote:But you could say that of a nasty cat! Any animal will react if provoked, the thing that needs to be taught to children is not to provoke the animal and that is exactly what I have done!

People used to leave dogs with children to guard them, people let their children walk their dog alone, what happened to the ideas that dog is man's best friend? As long as a child is taught from a young age how to behave around a dog, there shouldn't be a problem. Dogs can and have done serious damage to adults, and there are PLENTY of adults out there who have less of a clue about dogs than children that have been raised responsibly around them, are you saying that dogs should be kept away from all adults too, just in case?

Children do not have the physical strengh if something was to go wrong an adult does.
Adults have a mature prescence about them and are less likely to look and act like a play toy or prey. would i leave any animal alone with a childish adult no i would not, would i leave it alone with a mature adult who could handle itself yes i would.
I can not say i care if an adult was to get attacked by an animal but i would if a child got hurt.

An adult would have serious problems fighting off a staffy that was intent on inflicting damage. I think if a child (not a very young child) is as sensible and responsible around dogs as responsible adults are, there shouldn't be a problem.

My daughter is extremely mature and very responsible for her age. Charlie acts exactly the same way with her and gives her as much respect as he does with me and my husband. I have no fear he'll ever go for me, I have his love and respect, as does my daughter, I have no fear he'd ever go for her either. He sees my twins more as playmates at the moment I think, so I would never leave him alone with them, not because I dont trust Charlie, but because their play could get a bit OTT.

My original point was that if children are raised to be responsible around dogs, and dogs are raised to be respectful of responsible children, there shouldn't be an issue. Charlie and my daughter have both been raised that way, and I do not feel that nipping off to the loo while they are in the living room together make me an irresponsible parent or a bad dog owner.

I am not talking about the Staffy i'm talking about all dogs like you just said an adult against a staffy would result in a fight atleast but a child vrs a staffy wouldn't get the chance to fight, an adult with a dog would be strong enough to fight a child with a dog would not, what i am saying is why take the risk for a simple fact an animal is an animal whether its named charlie taz or blondy.
Yes your daughter is mature and responsibly perhaps but a child has less chance of surviving an animal attack than an adult does therefore i will never leave a child alone with any dog not just my staff's.

That's your opinion and I respect that but I do not appreciate being told by someone who does not know me, my children or my dog that I am irresponsible parent or a bad dog owner. I would NEVER put my children at risk, or put Charlie in the position of being condemned as a bad dog.

I don't think children should be left alone with any dog of any breed. If you aren't there to supervise, you have no way of controlling the situation and you are setting up your dog to fail.

I have a very sensible 8 yr old boy and I guess when Rascal is in the house with us I do leave the room sometimes for a few minutes. Our place is not very big though. I agree that an adult vs staffy has a much better chance of survival - at least if I'm there, I can insert myself between dog and child. Not sure now what I'm supposed to do! Does Rascal live outside when the kids are in the house? Does she come inside when they're in the yard? I don't follow my kids around. What about kids playing with the family dog in the yard? Sitting together on the couch while mum makes a cup of tea, goes to the loo etc? Rascal is part of our family and I can't believe I would need to keep dog and kids separated every time I walk away!
Really and truly, is that what people are suggesting?

rascal-girl wrote:I have a very sensible 8 yr old boy and I guess when Rascal is in the house with us I do leave the room sometimes for a few minutes. Our place is not very big though. I agree that an adult vs staffy has a much better chance of survival - at least if I'm there, I can insert myself between dog and child. Not sure now what I'm supposed to do! Does Rascal live outside when the kids are in the house? Does she come inside when they're in the yard? I don't follow my kids around. What about kids playing with the family dog in the yard? Sitting together on the couch while mum makes a cup of tea, goes to the loo etc? Rascal is part of our family and I can't believe I would need to keep dog and kids separated every time I walk away!
Really and truly, is that what people are suggesting?

I agree. I wouldn't leave Charlie and my daughter alone for any longer than a couple of minutes, and he's never left with my 4 year olds twins for even a minute, but I honestly do not see the problem with a mature, older child who knows how to behave around dogs being left with the family dog for the amount of time it takes to make a cuppa. He is part of our family, and is treated that way.

my brother has 3 girls ages 4, 7 and 9 and they always just rush in the house and when lemmy gets giddy and jumps they think its funny and scream. my brother thinks its funny and my sister in law thinks kids are being kids but i have on numerous occasions had to explain to them that we are trying to train the dog not to jump and that really his daughters should not be entering peoples houses this way. my sister in law thinks that everyones house should be child friendly at all times in case children visit. sorry no if i visited anyone with my kids when they were little they were taught manners about respecting peoples houses and they certainly werent allowed to run round screaming like little banshees especialy if there were animals about. its people that need to be educated how to act round the animals and the animals then will not get all the giddiness or frustration to turn them like this. all dogs or any animal has the potential in them the key is to redirect it with plenty exercise and stimulous but we also need to educate visitors on how to act.

_julie_ wrote:my brother has 3 girls ages 4, 7 and 9 and they always just rush in the house and when lemmy gets giddy and jumps they think its funny and scream. my brother thinks its funny and my sister in law thinks kids are being kids but i have on numerous occasions had to explain to them that we are trying to train the dog not to jump and that really his daughters should not be entering peoples houses this way. my sister in law thinks that everyones house should be child friendly at all times in case children visit. sorry no if i visited anyone with my kids when they were little they were taught manners about respecting peoples houses and they certainly werent allowed to run round screaming like little banshees especialy if there were animals about. its people that need to be educated how to act round the animals and the animals then will not get all the giddiness or frustration to turn them like this. all dogs or any animal has the potential in them the key is to redirect it with plenty exercise and stimulous but we also need to educate visitors on how to act.

Totally agree with that. Everyone that visits us, children included, are told to come in calmly, ignore Charlie if he gets excited, and wait til he's sitting calmly before saying hello. My kids know not to behave like that, whether there's a dog in someone's house or not.