thinkin bout future

by Ruby&Me Sat Oct 30 2010, 14:02

Hi peeps!
just a quicky :-P i want ruby to have pups (not yet obviously maybe in bout 18 months) shes black and white and her mum was more dark brindle, what would her pups look like if she had sexy time with a blue? X any help wld be great, like i said i was just wondering Cool

by Guest Sat Oct 30 2010, 14:12

Ruby&Me wrote:Hi peeps!
just a quicky :-P i want ruby to have pups (not yet obviously maybe in bout 18 months) shes black and white and her mum was more dark brindle, what would her pups look like if she had sexy time with a blue? X any help wld be great, like i said i was just wondering

you probably more than likely get a few pied dogs black and white, maybe the odd blue and white, the brindle from her mother may or may not come through,

by Guest Sat Oct 30 2010, 16:12

I think it's more likely you'll get brindle & white or black & white.

by Guest Sat Oct 30 2010, 17:25

I dont think it matters what colour the pups will be i think u should seriously reconsider breeding her......breeding should only be done by those who are experienced and breeding for the good of the breed.
if you buy the breed record supplements from the KC you will find that people that have 'just one litter' contribute to more staffords born than anyone else...but they say "how can i possiby be contributing to the problem when im only having one litter?!"

if all those people who had that one litter didnt then there would be one hell of a lot less staffords abandoned/in rescue.

There is sooo much u need to think about before breeding your bitch some of the things include:
Can u find loving forever homes for 8 + pups
Is your bitch kc red and clear of L2 & HC & is the sire
Are u prepared for maybe your bitch's temperment to change dramaticlly once bred and never return to how she once was
Are prepared to and do u have the time to hand rear 8+ pups id bitch rejects them?
Are u prepared for the HUGE costd involved if things go wrong?

I no u love ur dog and we all love ours to but its people who think oh just one litter wont hurt that are seriously adding to the crisis our breed in now

x

by Guest Sat Oct 30 2010, 20:39

im going breeding my Katie after Christmas when her next heat is due, i don't think im adding unnecessary crisis to the breed,

by Guest Sat Oct 30 2010, 20:46

i think if somebody responsible wants to breed their dog its a matter of choice for them, and nobody else should interfere with that decision, i can see where your coming from blaze your on the front line, as you said you walk rescue dogs, you probably see a lot of staffs in rescue centers in England, fortunately its not as big a problem here as it is in England

by **gem** Sun Oct 31 2010, 09:32

blaze666 wrote:I dont think it matters what colour the pups will be i think u should seriously reconsider breeding her......breeding should only be done by those who are experienced and breeding for the good of the breed.
if you buy the breed record supplements from the KC you will find that people that have 'just one litter' contribute to more staffords born than anyone else...but they say "how can i possiby be contributing to the problem when im only having one litter?!"

if all those people who had that one litter didnt then there would be one hell of a lot less staffords abandoned/in rescue.

There is sooo much u need to think about before breeding your bitch some of the things include:
Can u find loving forever homes for 8 + pups
Is your bitch kc red and clear of L2 & HC & is the sire
Are u prepared for maybe your bitch's temperment to change dramaticlly once bred and never return to how she once was
Are prepared to and do u have the time to hand rear 8+ pups id bitch rejects them?
Are u prepared for the HUGE costd involved if things go wrong?

I no u love ur dog and we all love ours to but its people who think oh just one litter wont hurt that are seriously adding to the crisis our breed in now

x

I agree 100% with you blade unfortunatly there is a huge problem in recue. =D>

by Guest Sun Oct 31 2010, 09:44

Thorny issue.

I personally don't object to people breeding their bitch as long as......

1. All health tests necessary in the breed are carried out prior to mating, and if any results are bad, you don't breed.

2. The stud dog is chosen with care - he should have all necessary health tests and should compliment the bitch. ie he should be able to counteract any slight fault that the bitch may have (and they all have faults).

3. Homework is done prior to the mating to ensure that there will be homes for the pups.

4. All homes/prospective owners should be thoroughly checked to ensure, as far as possible, that the pups will go to a forever home.

5. The person breeding the litter must be prepared to take back any pup that experiences difficulties in their new home. Many breeders nowadays get new owners to sign a contract to say that should their circumstances change & they can no longer look after their dog, it will be returned to the breeder.

ALL the above are the bare bones of necessity. In addition to these is the possible expense of a birthing going wrong - c-section and even possible spaying due to complications, which will not be covered by insurance.

It's a huge undertaking, but if the person breeding is prepared for all the above, then fine, go for it.

by Guest Sun Oct 31 2010, 10:09

Caryll wrote:Thorny issue.

I personally don't object to people breeding their bitch as long as......

1. All health tests necessary in the breed are carried out prior to mating, and if any results are bad, you don't breed.

2. The stud dog is chosen with care - he should have all necessary health tests and should compliment the bitch. ie he should be able to counteract any slight fault that the bitch may have (and they all have faults).

3. Homework is done prior to the mating to ensure that there will be homes for the pups.

4. All homes/prospective owners should be thoroughly checked to ensure, as far as possible, that the pups will go to a forever home.

also re-no2 also it your thinking of studding your dog chose with care dont just stud for money the person breeding the litter must be prepared to take back any pup that experiences difficulties in their new home. Many breeders nowadays get new owners to sign a contract to say that should their circumstances change & they can no longer look after their dog, it will be returned to the breeder.

ALL the above are the bare bones of necessity. In addition to these is the possible expense of a birthing going wrong - c-section and even possible spaying due to complications, which will not be covered by insurance.

It's a huge undertaking, but if the person breeding is prepared for all the above, then fine, go for it.

by **niff** Sun Oct 31 2010, 10:34

good advise caryl , dakota had 8 with no probs on fri but there was a 9th and i had to take her to get a section , cost us £363 and then there will b the follow up in ten days so i expect the bill to run well into £400

by Guest Sun Oct 31 2010, 11:38

niff wrote:good advise caryl , dakota had 8 with no probs on fri but there was a 9th and i had to take her to get a section , cost us £363 and then there will b the follow up in ten days so i expect the bill to run well into £400

all you have to do id sell one pup, and you have vet bill covered Laughing

by Guest Sun Oct 31 2010, 12:01

Caryll wrote:Thorny issue.

I personally don't object to people breeding their bitch as long as......

1. All health tests necessary in the breed are carried out prior to mating, and if any results are bad, you don't breed.

2. The stud dog is chosen with care - he should have all necessary health tests and should compliment the bitch. ie he should be able to counteract any slight fault that the bitch may have (and they all have faults).

3. Homework is done prior to the mating to ensure that there will be homes for the pups.

4. All homes/prospective owners should be thoroughly checked to ensure, as far as possible, that the pups will go to a forever home.

5. The person breeding the litter must be prepared to take back any pup that experiences difficulties in their new home. Many breeders nowadays get new owners to sign a contract to say that should their circumstances change & they can no longer look after their dog, it will be returned to the breeder.

ALL the above are the bare bones of necessity. In addition to these is the possible expense of a birthing going wrong - c-section and even possible spaying due to complications, which will not be covered by insurance.

It's a huge undertaking, but if the person breeding is prepared for all the above, then fine, go for it.

In normal circumstances yes i would agree but staffords and stafford crosses are in crisis at the moment in real crisis with thousands and thousands of pups and adult dogs being put to sleep and in pounds and rescue through no fault of there own just because they are so over bred!
Come on guys i dont see how we can disagree on this one Crying or Very sad

by Guest Sun Oct 31 2010, 12:23

i can see where your coming from blaze, but its not just sfaffs that are in crisis there's more mongrels in crisis than staffys, i cant see whats wrong with the idea of me for, e.g. wanting to breed my staffy for which i have pedigree papers for, and a very good stud lined up with an excellent pedigree aswell. i just want to keep my dogs bloodline going, and keep a puppy for myself, my katie was one of two bitches in her litter and i would like to keep her line going, i wouldn't like to see her bloodline going extinct, ive traced katies bloodline all the way back to the early 1930s be a shame to to break that line now

by Guest Sun Oct 31 2010, 13:48

blaze666 wrote:In normal circumstances yes i would agree but staffords and stafford crosses are in crisis at the moment in real crisis with thousands and thousands of pups and adult dogs being put to sleep and in pounds and rescue through no fault of there own just because they are so over bred!
Come on guys i dont see how we can disagree on this one

I understand what you're saying, but it isn't the well-thought-out, carefully planned litters that are the problem. It's the casual "I wanna make a couple of quid outta my bitch havng pups" litters that cause most of the peoblems. Plus, of course those breeders who either don't choose the buyers properly, or won't take back a pup if it goes wrong.

As Shane says, there are far more cross-breeds in rescue than staffs. I'm not making excuses for this, but it has to be seen in perspective. Many people want young puppies, not older pups/adult dogs, and they will go to breeders, not rescue places.

by Guest Sun Oct 31 2010, 15:48

the way a see it, if you have homes before you breed why not..? but as blaze say's a can c your point but its my choice if kuma is fit enought come the time and the stud is health and they do the deed then thats that am not in it for the money a want a pup of her own for us and ano a would have homes for her pups but if the time come's then see how it goes.. Tongues

by Guest Sun Oct 31 2010, 16:29

i agree it is the owners choice but finding owners is a differant story to finding resposible and careing owners you must make sure they dont get into the wrong hands which i undoubtfully know the majority off owners on here would do Big Grin

(find good homes that is)

by Guest Mon Nov 01 2010, 10:36

ok well maybe its like shane says i am on the front line of people wanting just one litter or to carry on their dogs lines etc and i can tell u in the last 3 months at a sister rescue to the rescue i work at 5 of the 30+ staff/staff crosses that have come in have been kc reg and out of those 5, 3 where not wanted back by their breeders Crying or Very sad

so its not just back yard breeders dogs that end up in rescue its proper breeders as well. I can also say out of the 30+ staffords/crosses this rescue has taken in 15+ where under 12 months and 5 were a litter of staffords which had been dumped at the gates. Thats just in 3 months!! You will prob have to wait a shorter amount of time to get a pup in rescue nowadays then wait for a planned litter from a breeder which is just a joke and shows what a ridiculus situation our breed is in at the moment!
I no that everyone is intitled to their own decition and will breed their dogs if they want to but i am also intitled to mine lol and will never ever stop trying to persuade people to stop breeding and to neuter/spay your dogs.
Ive just got back from the sanctuary where ive been since 8.30 and if u had seen those poor babys looking up at u with thier big brown sad and worried eyes then u would no what i ment. I had to choose 3 dogs to walk this morning......how do u do that when they rescue is so short staffed most of the dogs their havent been walked in over a week, they were all so excited Crying or Very sad

It breaks my heart everytime.

by Guest Mon Nov 01 2010, 10:59

I do understand what you mean, believe me.

But just because a dog is kennel club registered doesn't mean it's breeders are good & concientious people! A back yard breeder can still register their dogs if both parents were registered.

Most GOOD breeders will take back a pup if necessary, or if they can't, they'll help find a new home.

I know it's hard for anyone working with rescues - you see heartbreak all the time & I feel for them, I really do. But that doesn't mean every breeder is like that. Many are really good, kind people who have the interests of their dogs & puppies very much to heart. The breeders of both Bandit & Dempsey (in fact the breeders of all the dogs I've had except the first one) made it clear that if there were any problems then they would have 'first refusal' to take back the pup. I even had to sign a contract with Dempsey's breeder to confirm this.

by Guest Mon Nov 01 2010, 11:18

Oh yea of course their are good breeders and the majority of those breeders will take their pups/dogs back but some dont lol
I no im harping on all the time about breeding and neturing etc but i just feel that it i can stop just one uninfomed owner from breeding just once then thats maybe 4 dogs i can maybe keep out of rescue.....
My point was that any dog can end up in recue wether its a cross or a pedigree and u just dont no whats going to happen to the pups u breed wether u spend all the time in the world trying to find good homes for then or not. One of the breeders who took their dog back just was sooo upset that one of her dogs ended up in rescue she was heartbroken and couldnt believe it!

by Guest Mon Nov 01 2010, 11:26

Caryll wrote:I do understand what you mean, believe me.

But just because a dog is kennel club registered doesn't mean it's breeders are good & concientious people! A back yard breeder can still register their dogs if both parents were registered.

Most GOOD breeders will take back a pup if necessary, or if they can't, they'll help find a new home.

I know it's hard for anyone working with rescues - you see heartbreak all the time & I feel for them, I really do. But that doesn't mean every breeder is like that. Many are really good, kind people who have the interests of their dogs & puppies very much to heart. The breeders of both Bandit & Dempsey (in fact the breeders of all the dogs I've had except the first one) made it clear that if there were any problems then they would have 'first refusal' to take back the pup. I even had to sign a contract with Dempsey's breeder to confirm this.

same here caryll the breeder said at anytime if i couldnt look after him for someresson he would have first refusal on him. i also had to give him pet insurance detailes, vet number, and he made a home visit before he would put me on the puppy list. and true to his word he cheacked memphis had all jabs and wormings with the vet

by Guest Mon Nov 01 2010, 22:04

blaze666 I so understand what you're saying. I really do. But you'll never stop people breeding their dogs. What we have to do is try to EDUCATE those people who do breed. Make sure they know what they are doing - the cost, the pitfalls, the unscrupulous buyer who tries to pull the wool over our eyes.

On the other side, of course, I think that the stafford has become WAY too popular. 20 years ago very few people on the street had even heard of a staffordshire bull terrier, let alone seen one. You only bought them for two reasons - you either wanted a strong-hearted fun-packed & athletic companion, or you wanted to have a fighter (I know that's distasteful but it's true). I do agree that there should be fewer litters bred, but much of the blame must lie with the 'big' breeders who turn out 4 or 5 litters a year. The single owner who just wants one litter from their much loved bitch isn't the real problem.

by Guest Mon Nov 01 2010, 22:19

Caryll wrote:blaze666 I so understand what you're saying. I really do. But you'll never stop people breeding their dogs. What we have to do is try to EDUCATE those people who do breed. Make sure they know what they are doing - the cost, the pitfalls, the unscrupulous buyer who tries to pull the wool over our eyes.

On the other side, of course, I think that the stafford has become WAY too popular. 20 years ago very few people on the street had even heard of a staffordshire bull terrier, let alone seen one. You only bought them for two reasons - you either wanted a strong-hearted fun-packed & athletic companion, or you wanted to have a fighter (I know that's distasteful but it's true). I do agree that there should be fewer litters bred, but much of the blame must lie with the 'big' breeders who turn out 4 or 5 litters a year. The single owner who just wants one litter from their much loved bitch isn't the real problem.

look at caryll saying there to many staffys around now just becouse she hasnt got one haha

by Guest Mon Nov 01 2010, 22:26

bigwazza wrote:look at caryll saying there to many staffys around now just becouse she hasnt got one haha

Oh, you can see right through me!!! Tongues

by Guest Mon Nov 01 2010, 22:32

remember when i was a youngin everyone and his dad had a jack russel in my area now you dont see many at all
hopfully the same may happen and only true staffy owners will go back to owning them

by Guest Mon Nov 01 2010, 22:35

That would be nice. Yes, I remember every street having a dozen Jack Russells around, and right little b*****s they were too!

I remember my mum saying "don't stroke the Jack Russells, they'll bite you". Now where have I heard that recently about another breed...........................

by Guest Mon Nov 01 2010, 23:10

Caryll wrote:blaze666 I so understand what you're saying. I really do. But you'll never stop people breeding their dogs. What we have to do is try to EDUCATE those people who do breed. Make sure they know what they are doing - the cost, the pitfalls, the unscrupulous buyer who tries to pull the wool over our eyes.

On the other side, of course, I think that the stafford has become WAY too popular. 20 years ago very few people on the street had even heard of a staffordshire bull terrier, let alone seen one. You only bought them for two reasons - you either wanted a strong-hearted fun-packed & athletic companion, or you wanted to have a fighter (I know that's distasteful but it's true). I do agree that there should be fewer litters bred, but much of the blame must lie with the 'big' breeders who turn out 4 or 5 litters a year. The single owner who just wants one litter from their much loved bitch isn't the real problem.

i don't know what the situation is which the English kennel club, but here in Ireland the kennel club will only let you breed your bitch every two years, if you have a litter before the two years time frame they will not resister your litter, its a small deterrent to stop over breeding, but you this the get rouge element who will still breed their bitches twice a year and sell them without papers.

by Guest Mon Nov 01 2010, 23:13

I think there's something similar here, but the big breeders have 5 or 6 bitches (or even more) so they churn out several litters a year.

by **gem** Mon Nov 01 2010, 23:30

Ruby and me, I think you would most likely get black with white the black should dominate the blue maybe brindle. Talk to a lot of people before you decide and please do checks and home checks be prepared its not always a easy undertaking things can go wrong you have to be prepared for anything.

by Guest Tue Nov 02 2010, 08:30

I think this will be a popular subject on here haha! And i think we will be having this very same discussion a few times! lol x

by Ruby&Me Tue Nov 02 2010, 10:31

Jeeeez! :-\ I
I was just asking a simple question and thanks to those who answered. Firstly i am a responsible adult who is doing reasearch, i am financially stable and i can care for any possible puppys born. My parents are reputable dog breeders and i have their full support, oh and they are not "back street breeders" either! Ruby is a brilliant natured dog and i would love to carry on her blood line.
I understand all your points and im sorry for all the dogs in shelters, but not everyone can be tarred with the same brush, i am not breeding her for monetary reasons and i have a decent size home and garden. There will be nesersary tests etc
I know i can't change any of you're minds, and thats fine, everyones entitled to their opinion. You've had mine.

by Guest Tue Nov 02 2010, 10:38

Ruby&Me wrote: everyones entitled to their opinion. You've had mine.

To which you are very much entitled. As I've said, the decision is yours, and I for one would not stand in your way. It sounds like you have the breed's best interests at heart & if nobody ever bred their dogs again, there would be no more staffords! Big Grin

P.S. At what age were thinking of mating her? I just wondered if you had a particular dog in mind yet, or was just going to wait & see.

by Ruby&Me Tue Nov 02 2010, 10:51

Thanks cayrll i apreciate your comment x
I am going to wait till shes about 2 (when shes matured enough)
It will be with another sbt allthough i am contemplating not doing it now I've read all the comments, but i wouldve loved to keep her line going. I just dont know what to do now :-\
We hadn't found a sire as yet, but like i said im in two minds now :-(

by Guest Tue Nov 02 2010, 10:56

As you said, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. If we all thought the same way, it'd be a boring old world!

Two years old is a good age. Nice & mature but still young enough to adapt well. I would DEFINITELY use another stafford & one that is registered. The whole point of breeding should be not only to produce good & loving companions for other people, but to better the breed. So choose your stud carefully to compliment your Ruby's good points & correct any faults. Then you'll have some cracking pups who may also 'better the breed'.

by Guest Tue Nov 02 2010, 10:59

Ruby&Me wrote:Jeeeez! :-\ I
I was just asking a simple question and thanks to those who answered. Firstly i am a responsible adult who is doing reasearch, i am financially stable and i can care for any possible puppys born. My parents are reputable dog breeders and i have their full support, oh and they are not "back street breeders" either! Ruby is a brilliant natured dog and i would love to carry on her blood line.
I understand all your points and im sorry for all the dogs in shelters, but not everyone can be tarred with the same brush, i am not breeding her for monetary reasons and i have a decent size home and garden. There will be nesersary tests etc
I know i can't change any of you're minds, and thats fine, everyones entitled to their opinion. You've had mine.

well said i think everyone on here is a responsible staffy owner and it is your responsibility to do what you think is right for your dog, breeding dogs is not taken lightly and done on a whim.
and the kind of owner that just breeds for money would not be found on a site like ours as they got no intrest in the breed just the money or pransing round thinking there dog/bitch makes them look good

by Guest Tue Nov 02 2010, 11:18

bigwazza wrote: breeding dogs is not taken lightly and done on a whim.
and the kind of owner that just breeds for money would not be found on a site like ours as they got no intrest in the breed just the money or pransing round thinking there dog/bitch makes them look good

Yes, well said.

by Ruby&Me Tue Nov 02 2010, 11:49

bigwazza wrote:
Ruby&Me wrote:Jeeeez! :-\ I
I was just asking a simple question and thanks to those who answered. Firstly i am a responsible adult who is doing reasearch, i am financially stable and i can care for any possible puppys born. My parents are reputable dog breeders and i have their full support, oh and they are not "back street breeders" either! Ruby is a brilliant natured dog and i would love to carry on her blood line.
I understand all your points and im sorry for all the dogs in shelters, but not everyone can be tarred with the same brush, i am not breeding her for monetary reasons and i have a decent size home and garden. There will be nesersary tests etc
I know i can't change any of you're minds, and thats fine, everyones entitled to their opinion. You've had mine.

well said i think everyone on here is a responsible staffy owner and it is your responsibility to do what you think is right for your dog, breeding dogs is not taken lightly and done on a whim.
and the kind of owner that just breeds for money would not be found on a site like ours as they got no intrest in the breed just the money or pransing round thinking there dog/bitch makes them look good

I agree, she is my world and i didnt mean to offend anyone :-\ any pups that are had will be well cared for, she has a fab nature and is a beautiful staff! (If i say so myself) i only want the best for her, this will be in no certain terms on a whim, i have 18 months to plan, and ill take as much time off as ill need. Im grateful for all your help i truly am. I would hate for anyone to think of me as just another obe of them (ppl who do it for money and not care less about the dogs welfare) xxxxxxxxxxxx

by Guest Tue Nov 02 2010, 12:23

Yea everyone is intitled to there opinion and im intitled to mine lol. I wasnt trying to make out u were a back yard breeder btw, if it were up to me there would be a complete bann even on reputable breeders at the moment, things are that bad.

by Guest Tue Nov 02 2010, 12:28

blaze666 wrote: if it were up to me there would be a complete bann even on reputable breeders at the moment, things are that bad.

The problem there would be
a. The backyard breeders would still breed, regardless of health concerns, decent homes etc and
b. You'd weaken the gene pool.

by Guest Tue Nov 02 2010, 12:34

blaze666 wrote:Yea everyone is intitled to there opinion and im intitled to mine lol. I wasnt trying to make out u were a back yard breeder btw, if it were up to me there would be a complete bann even on reputable breeders at the moment, things are that bad.

i think it more of an issue in your region blaze becouse as shane says it is not such a problem in irland and iv cheacked on the sites for shelters im my area and out of 42 dogs in one there are 3 staffy/staffyx in there
and in a nother there is 5 in 64 dogs most of the dogs are x breeds and lurcher and small terrier types.
not to say thats good but i think the picture across the whole country may be a bit better than in some places

by Guest Tue Nov 02 2010, 12:37

bigwazza wrote:
blaze666 wrote:Yea everyone is intitled to there opinion and im intitled to mine lol. I wasnt trying to make out u were a back yard breeder btw, if it were up to me there would be a complete bann even on reputable breeders at the moment, things are that bad.

i think it more of an issue in your region blaze becouse as shane says it is not such a problem in irland and iv cheacked on the sites for shelters im my area and out of 42 dogs in one there are 3 staffy/staffyx in there
and in a nother there is 5 in 64 dogs most of the dogs are x breeds and lurcher and small terrier types.
not to say thats good but i think the picture across the whole country may be a bit better than in some places

No that is wrong staffs are in crisis all over the country....look anyway everyones said there bit and i dont think i will change your guys mind anymore than u will change mine lol x

by Guest Tue Nov 02 2010, 12:40

ha ha i think this debate is far from over
and as i say the picture dont look so bleak in my area

by Guest Tue Nov 02 2010, 12:42

how do u no bigwazza? Have u been to pounds? Coz to be honest their prob isnt as many staffs in rescue as they havent even made it to the centre they prob got put down at the pound!!

by Guest Tue Nov 02 2010, 12:46

will cheack and get back to you on that one
but in the same sence you cant know that everywere has a problem

by Guest Tue Nov 02 2010, 13:18

i take it u didnt watch the panorama "staffies in rescue" programme on a few month back....Google it and see what u come up with then tell me ur area doesnt have a problem u may be able to watch it somewhere you tube maybe i dunno? Its heartbreaking and its what i deal with everyday and it all over the country south and north and its exactly the reason why responsible owners should be neturing and spaying there dogs!

by Ruby&Me Tue Nov 02 2010, 13:19

Omg trust me to start a debate!
I feel so bad i got everyone wound up :-\

by Guest Tue Nov 02 2010, 13:21

blaze666 wrote: its exactly the reason why responsible owners should be neturing and spaying there dogs!

Carefull. Responsible owners take care that their dogs do not breed indiscriminately, and so neutering is not essential.

by Guest Tue Nov 02 2010, 13:21

Ruby&Me wrote:Omg trust me to start a debate!
I feel so bad i got everyone wound up :-\

Don't worry - that's what forums are for!! Big Grin

by Guest Tue Nov 02 2010, 13:22

Haha me caryll and bigwazza can always be trusted to start a debate and always get our opinion across! No-ones wound up dont worry lol x

by Ruby&Me Tue Nov 02 2010, 13:25

blaze666 wrote:Haha me caryll and bigwazza can always be trusted to start a debate and always get our opinion across! No-ones wound up dont worry lol x

Ha ha erm.....thanks i think! :-D

by Guest Tue Nov 02 2010, 13:25

caryll i think u no as well as i do that if a male stafford smells a female then there is always the possibility of an accidentle mating the male running off escaping etc so to say a responsible owner wouldnt allow it is to say there is no possibility of of my dog ever running away or escaping which is an impossible thing to say....x

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