Looking for SBT pup from working line - need advice

Hi all,
I'm former vet and dog trainer, now working for industry. Previously had APBT and AST x APBT cross when lived in other country. Recently found that ASTs are illegal and started to think about SBT pup. Due to my background I'm interested in dog sports (pulling or obedience - if dog really enjoys it), not just in coach potato buddy
Don't know if it's possible to find a puppy from working line within UK and cheaper than an average spaceship. I have an option to bring puppy from France, but after Brexit it seems impossible for age less than 6 months. Certainly, I'd like to grow my dog from early age - never enjoyed it before, all my dogs came to me at age of 9 months or elder.
So I would be grateful for any advice and/or contacts of breeders. I don't need a show dog, but a bit scared of situation with UK breeders in COVID times.

NB: never was involved in dog fights. Strictly against this, sport means legal dog activities.

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Hi from me & Katy tbh considering the current Covid situation finding a puppy atm is like finding hens teeth! Any pups that are available are going for £3000 upwards! After new year there will be loads in rescue centres, may not be pups but staffies are good to train & eager to please. Have a look at rescues near you

Hi Jenc, thank you for good advice, but I had only rescue dogs previously. I'd like at least once in my life (I'm not so young) to have this experience - to grow a puppy from the very beginning.
Also I'm working full-time and have nobody living with me, so I'm confident that I can provide enough time and resources for healthy well-trained dog, but not so sure in case of health / behavior issues. That's why I think about puppy.
3000 is painful, but possible. The issue that there is absolutely no guarantee for this price.
So either I need any reco whom to contact (breeders) or confirmation that better I give up for UK breeders and concentrate on French kennels.

Hi & welcome.

If you're working full time, how will you be able to settle your pup into a routine?

If you're after a 'working line' Stafford, be very careful. We have strict Breed Specific Laws in the UK & if your dog even LOOKS like a Pitbull it could be seized and even pts.

Most well bred Staffords are trainable & many do weight pulling & agility.

I'll manage in the beginning (vacations, working from home as exception), but won't be able to afford dog which requires constant presence.
Regarding legislation: did I correctly understand that if anybody considers that my SBT pup is looking like APBT, I'm at risk regardless to documents and kennel records? Is it about customs or about any stranger here?

Ifritess wrote:I'll manage in the beginning (vacations, working from home as exception), but won't be able to afford dog which requires constant presence.
Regarding legislation: did I correctly understand that if anybody considers that my SBT pup is looking like APBT, I'm at risk regardless to documents and kennel records? Is it about customs or about any stranger here?

Staffords are people dogs - they crave human attention & most would not be happy being left for long periods. Most will turn destructive if left alone for too long.

And yes, any dog that measures up to 'pitbull type' is at risk, no matter what registration documents you have. This is because in the UK pitbulls are not a recognised breed and so any dog that 'measures up to' a pitbull will be considered 'type' and the law forbids pitbull 'type' dogs.

It sounds harsh, but if I were in your shoes I would look for a different breed.

great advice! better I look for a different country
didn't expect that it's not recommended for any working person to own a dog in the UK.

good luck everybody and bye.

It's not that a working person can't own a dog here in the UK but staffies need human contact a lot! They crave love & cuddles. If you work & can get someone to come in & walk & cuddle them for an hour that would help. But if you work 9-5 & can't get home that's no good for any breed of dog!

Ifritess wrote:great advice! better I look for a different country
didn't expect that it's not recommended for any working person to own a dog in the UK.

good luck everybody and bye.

You're talking about a 'working line' dog being left to its own devices for possibly 8-10 hours a day. Having had a border Collie in the past I can honestly say that a working dog will go crazy if left for that length of time 5 or 6 days a week.

If you were looking for an older rescue I'd say yes, that's possible, but a highly driven working dog of any breed needs to work!

I know that isn't the answer you were looking for & I'm sorry if you are offended. But I have to say what I think is right. We all have different opinions & that is mine.

Hello and welcome, hope you’re still around ?
I must say that with all due respect, I don’t entirely agree with gilly.

People that work full time can have dogs, even young and/or non-couch potato types BUT everything is a question of organisation and equilibrium, which can be finer to tune with these types of dogs.
I feel it’s like saying that all mums should stay at home to look after their children   .  Perhaps possible in another day and age but times change.
It is a reality that most households need to work today. Just bear in mind that it will require efforts from your side too, as well as asking the dog to stay home alone for any period of time.

Whilst my Nifty is a perfect example of a couch potato, Opium is a high energy staffy who needs to move. I do obedience with Opium and she’s giving the other working breeds (border collie, Australian shepherds, belgian shepherd, etc) a serious run for their money.
I work full time but have found a set up which has zero destruction and I don’t believe that my dogs are unhappy for it.

My advice to you would be to look for a terrier type staffy, rather than the bully type. Terriers are taller and lighter so more athletic.
Think about your setup and how you can accommodate your staffy (at all life stages).
I can also give you pointers for the French staffy breeders but yes, importation is difficult because of the rules regarding the rabies vaccination and immunity whilch rules out a weaned puppy This has nothing to do with brexit btw, more of a measure to avoid the 6 months quarantine that existed before.

Nifty staffy wrote:
I feel it’s like saying that all mums should stay at home to look after their children   .  Perhaps possible in another day and age but times change. .

I'm sorry but that is a ludicrous comparison. NO baby can be left alone for hours at a time! That's why there are childminders and/or relatives to fill the gap. Are you suggesting that working mums should leave their babies/children alone whilst they work? Of course you're not. So why are you suggesting that a working line puppy can be left, unsupervised & with no outlet for their driven needs, for hours at a time?

Surely that is wrong?

Sorry gilly but my comparison to a mother with her child was the image of her staying home to look after it vs going to work whilst finding other minding solutions. Not to leave a child alone.

But does a working line puppy want/need to have outlet from the moment you all wake in the morning until you all go to bed in the evening ?
Of course not.
That’s why I mentioned organisation, to manage those “work absent hours” which could need supervised outlet but also which could include puppy sleep which might not require compulsory human presence.

What I personally resent (and this is purely my feeling) is the message that people who work should not have dogs.
That’s stereotypical discrimination and I firmly believe that in many cases, working solutions can ensure canine happiness much better than the basic “human family presence” 24/7.
I’m talking about making sure the time spent together is always quality time and the possibility of installing a certain routine which covers the best compromise of canine’s needs and human possibilities.

I did not, and would not, say that working people cannot have a dog! Please, where did I say that?

But a 'working line' dog of ANY breed needs more than a couple of hours a day. Opium has Nifty as a companion, doesn't she? But are either of them left totally on their own for 8-10 hours a day, 5 or 6 days a week?

At the very least, someone should be popping in once or twice a day to check that all is well & to cater for toilet breaks. What about meals? Pups need 3 to 4 meals a day. They need socialisation.

I stick by what I said - from the information given, a working line puppy would not be suitable in these circumstances.

I just believe that most things are possible, but some things might require more means/sacrifice than are available that they render the thing impossible in that configuration.

With the information given, the project perhaps did not have the ideal elements but there might have been a way to realize it with the help of friends, minders, professionals etc.
I just think that we could have assisted the OP to help them share and analyze the details of their project in order for them to come to their own conclusions instead of perhaps scaring them off with a categoric “no” based on a few scarce details of their introduction.

Nifty staffy wrote:I just believe that most things are possible, but some things might require more means/sacrifice than are available that they render the thing impossible in that configuration.

With the information given, the project perhaps did not have the ideal elements but there might have been a way to realize it with the help of friends, minders, professionals etc.
I just think that we could have assisted the OP to help them share and analyze the details of their project in order for them to come to their own conclusions instead of perhaps scaring them off with a categoric “no” based on a few scarce details of their introduction.

Great. So you are happy with a working line dog being left for hours at a time?

I think it's time I thought about what this forum is about. Is it the well being of stafford/stafford crosses? If not, feel free to ban me.

initially I didn't plan to continue this topic, as it was agreed by audience that I'm not good enough to be a SBT owner.
may I highlight that I didn't ask for advice how to grow a puppy and how to cope with a working dog for a full-time working person? I'm a former veterinary doctor and dog trainer. I had dogs performing for Big ring and Russian ring. sorry, not going to prove this with youtube links not to ruin my privacy.
I fully understand that personal protection training could be a bad idea for SBT in the UK, that's why I think about obedience or pulling (or even dog dance, why not?)
I always owned 2 or 3 dogs and worked more than 9-5 (day shifts, night shifts, mixed schedule) and also my dogs never felt unhappy. I believe if dog walks 3-4 hours per day every day, this is the basis of healthy dog's psychics. also when you are at home with the dog, it should be 'quality time', not only being around.
sorry, I should stop this, otherwise I feel like I'm justifying myself in front of strangers.

I feel extremely not welcomed here in the UK last years, and such attitude for dog owners gives me another reason for relocation (I don't mean forum, it's nothing. E.g. most of rescues have a rule that they don't accept owners if dog is left for more than 4 hours during the day).

Dear Nifty Staffy, thank you for your kind words and support. If I'm stuck in the UK and finally decide to bring puppy from EU, I may ask few questions if you don't mind.

For others: see you at dog obedience competitions after 3-4 years with you 'happy' 'well-trained' 'surrounded by love' dogs vs my 'abandoned' and 'un-happy'!

Ifritess, I’m here to help anyone in any way I can.

I don’t think this thread has much more to offer either but perhaps may I hope that you’ll continue to stop by, maybe have other queries that you might post and hopefully see that this forum isn’t such an unfriendly place as it might have seemed.

Nifty Staffy, thank you!
exactly when I saw your answers in this topic and other topics, I decided to come back with a few words.
will be glad to keep in touch regardless of my location (in the Uk or outside)!