Curled tail

My girls tail has always been curly like a piglet. When we first got her she would have it straight sometimes but tended to curl it up most of the time. Since she turned about 3-4 months her tail is never straight. When she wags it it like just jiggles on her bum coz it’s curled. I have tried to read about why that is, all it says online is that staffies don’t have curled tails so she must be mixed.

Luna has papers and is a full breed,both parents are show dogs and have gotten titles etc. So for me it’s not really a question of weather she is a full breed staffy because she is.

I have asked the breeder about it, she said that it’s unusual but not uncommon which doesn’t answer anything for me at all it wasn’t ever broken that I know of? I mean if it was she would be in pain right? You can straighten it with your hand but as you do it you can feel the tail pulling to the side it curls. When you pull it straight she gets mad and attacks it.

I couldn’t care less as it looks adorable, but is it something I should worry about or is it not a big deal?

We did want to breed her in a year or two to keep a pup but have been advised by a family friend not to, they said that if she was born like that that is a defect and she shouldn’t be breed..?

It does sound like a defect though whether it’s hereditary or not, difficult to say. Broken tails are usually crooked, rarely “hanging”. Even if her tail is not to breed standards, it won’t change anything to her charm, as you say, and I wouldn’t be overly worried about it.

As to your breeding question, it’s very subjective.

Both of my girls are KC registered SBT but neither is allowed to reproduce KC reg puppies. Out here, puppy is KC registered only if both parents are KC reg AND if both parents have been “confirmed” (approved to breed standards by a judge to validate them as breeding stock).
Nifty was born with a deformed tail (non hereditary) and Opium is an unauthorized colour (b&t) so they cannot breed KC reg puppies. Breeding non KC or crosses is not recommended here due to BSL.
Personally, I never wanted to breed so both have been spayed anyways.

Then I would suggest that you need to breed for the right reasons and in the best conditions. Each to his own but is it really vital for you to have a pup that is Luna’s offspring ? With all of the risks that a pregnancy encounters, and the responsibility of bringing more puppies into this world, you have to do your homework thoroughly.

In horses, there is a well known saying “fools breed foals for wise men to buy” ...

It will be a throwback to the bulldog.

Although it isn't a health problem, I wouldn't breed from her as (for me) the only reason to breed should be to 'better' the breed. So unless your bitch is near perfect, she should not be bred from.

If it is a hereditary issue then she could pass that on to pups.

So I shouldn’t be concerned about it much? Like it wouldn’t be a health issue or anything just something visual really? I always wondered would that stop her from being able to enter dog shows? Since the tail is not breed standard. Both of her parents are confirmed, we even got this very with her that shows all her ancestors up to like great great great grandparents I’ve been suggested a lot that the tail means she is a cross breed but I just don’t see how would it be possible? I mean you can’t just fool the KC and pretend the puppies are from certain parents when they aren’t if you are a registered breeder, can you?

See with her having a litter it’s not exactly to sell them. We want to move into a bigger house in the next year or so, and when we do my boyfriend really wants another staffy, he keeps joking we’ll get two more but I dunno about that If we were to let her have a litter we already have 5 family members and friends that really want Luna’s pup too so we wouldn’t be posting adds selling them off, they would be kept in our family really. My boyfriend just thinks that it would be nice to be able to have a dog that has been bonded with you since it was born, I’m not too pushed but I would like to have one of her puppies too. I was thinking about getting her neutered after she has a litter.

My main concern about it was the tail however, I was wondering if because she has a tail defect would that mean her puppies will be born with other defects etc or is it just her tail. I’ve seen both Luna’s parents, there isn’t a curly tailed pup anywhere in previous litters from same parents or with grandparents etc which is why I don’t understand it really.

In terms of Luna and her curly tail, it is an aesthetical issue rather than a health one so for her, don't worry.

Why she has the curly tail is down to her genetics.
It's like my Opium who has no b&t parents in the last 8 generations but she was born "the wrong colour" because at least one of her parents carries the b&t gene somewhere and it has expressed itself in Opium.

As to breeding, it's a whole other ball game.
My answer will be short as I'm at work (can go into detail tonight) and don't take this badly but basically it sounds as though you want to breed for all of the wrong reasons.

This bonding thing with a puppy from birth does not apply as a puppy will bond with it's mum until weaning, the human only adds manipulation (unless you have to bottle feed every 2 hours, thing I would not wish on anyone as it means mum has a problem !).
It's like the old wive's tail that says that bitches should have at least one litter in their life.

Is it a financial reason for breeding rather than acquiring later on ? Counting breeding fee, pregnancy with vet and food costs plus preparing puppy arrival. Then 8 weeks of lots of your time to clean up after staffy family, making sure you show them things in life, toys for the pups, official paperwork with chipping and vaccinations and worming costs, etc. Basically, it's expensive when you do things right.
Mum can have 1-10 or more pups, you won't know until they're born and if all will survive ...
You can have genetically deformed pups or perfect ones. But they will be carriers of Luna's defect and that is not good for the breed, I'm afraid.

I care for the breed so my girls will never be bred, they have been spayed for this and to protect their health too.
It was the responsible thing to do ...

I agree with Nifty. It's a fallacy that a puppy will bond more with its humans if it's brought up by them from birth.

Even an older rescue dog will bind strongly with its new human companion!

I would leave the breeding to someone who has the experience, the time & the know how to breed. And the finances! Don't forget that there are certain DNA & other veterinary tests that should be carried out before a bitch is mated - and the stud dog should also have all these tests in place.

Have a look here - go to 'breed info' & then 'health tests'...
http://thestaffordshirebullterrier.co.uk/health-tests/l-2-hga

there are three other important tests (other than L2-HGA), and both dog & bitch must either be hereditarily clear or tested before the mating.

The more I am reading about the tail the more worried I am becoming.. not about the breeding coz in the end I don’t care if I can’t breed her but I’m not sure weather I should get her x-rayed...

Any thoughts on hemivertebrae problems? Like I’ve read a lot that that’s why the tail could be curled like this and it could mean she has problems elsewhere in her spine too... the tail is quite thick at the base and gets thinner towards the top. She never has it straight anymore. When we first got her it was a bit straight, it would curl to the side a bit but she could wag it etc. Now when she wags it it’s still curled and just sort of wiggles?

The more and more I look into it the more worried it’s making me, I made a post here before about her biting her tail a lot, when we first got her she would occasionally bite her tail so hard it would bleed.

The thing is the vets only taking in emergencies atm and an X-ray isn’t one if she’s not in pain is what they said to me

Am I overreacting? Or should all that worry me? When you take her tail in your hand and gently straighten it you can feel every bit of the tail pulling into its curl position. Even the tip of it.

I understand your concern.

The tail being thick at the base and getting thinner, most (longer) tails are like this so it sounds normal to me. The wiggle instead of wag also sounds logical if the tail is curled over the back. Tail pulling to curled position also sounds correct as the opposite is true - try to curl a straight tail and it will want to retake it’s initial shape.

Where it could cause more concern is the evolution of her tail carriage over time. But as you mention that it always tended to curl, just more-so over time, it sounds as if it is setting it’s place. A bit like ears really (puppies born with tiny ears, growing big “labrador” ears which (hopefully) take rose or partially pricked shape after weaning).

Most important factor for now is to evaluate if Luna is in pain or not.
Have her gaits changed over time ? Can she still walk/trot/run quite loosely and freely as before ? No dragging legs or uncharacteristic “stiff waddling” ?
If not, I think you can at least wait until the end of confinement which will probably be another month or so (based on most european countries).
Then maybe discuss with vet before going straight under x-ray machine, vet can probably reassure you and you could save alot of money in the process.

Thank you,that’s really helpful.

I don’t think she is in pain, I mean she’s a hyper lil girl she’s always jumping around the place so I don’t think her movement is impaired in any way. She does throw like her back legs behind her, I don’t know how to explain it well but I’ve seen other big dogs do that. She’ll get tired and walk slowly and like leave her legs behind while she lies down kind of like a stretch if you know what I mean?

I just got worried reading that if she has a spine deformation in her tail that could mean she can have more in her spine since the tail is a part of her spine, a lot of people with pugs and gods with curly tail discover that so just got overly worried that if she has something like that it would be better caught now then in a few years when it causes her pain.

I’m completely uneducated in this field I’ve never had a dog with a curly tail and just got worried as the internet sends u into a big hole of worry

You clearly care alot for Luna and that is great.
Someone who is always looking to question what they do/know in order to better things - Luna couldn’t do better

I believe we learn every day but you’ve got to be careful of what you read on Internet.

From how you describe Luna, I really think you can wait until the confinement is over to see your vet with greater peace of mind and discuss. Luna is still young so you can’t beat yourself up about having reacted too late.

As for lying down stretched out, mine do that (especially Opium to take up as much room as possible on the sofa )

lunathestaffy wrote: She does throw like her back legs behind her, I don’t know how to explain it well but I’ve seen other big dogs do that. She’ll get tired and walk slowly and like leave her legs behind while she lies down kind of like a stretch if you know what I mean? 

Totally normal, especially for most of the bull breeds.

I would try not to worry about it at the moment. If she isn't in discomfort, then her tail is probably just a throwback & not a spinal problem as such.

Just keep an eye on her & if she seems a bit stiff after exercise, or is hunching her back when walking, ask for vet advice. Otherwise, she's fine!

Yeah I think I’m just worrying too much, too much time on my hands has me searing the internet for answers and there’s just too many

Thank you very much for all the help I’ll just try stay calm untill I can just take her to a vet and ask them to have a look and tell me what they think. Probably is just nothing

The Internet is a wonderful thing - but it can drive you insane!