Puppy reserved, some questions..

Hi all.

We have reserved a girl pup sbt. Will be 5 weeks on Tuesday. She was sold as a blue, with blue dad stud and brindle mum but from line of blues. Id like her to stay blue, but see some tinges of ginger/brown in the light when we visited her again today. I have attached a photo. Would you say she was a blue and most important look healthy. Buying with no papers from parents, good on her feet and feeding well apparently and definatly grown from last week. She will be vet checked, chipped and have her first set of jabs when we collect on 9th Oct. Also is 600 the going rate for a staff with no papers.

Thanks in advance...

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Hello and welcome.
How exciting to have reserved your pup, I remember when I reserved Nifty
I can’t see your photo (possibly due to new user delay of a few days) but from what you describe, sounds like your girl is blue brindle.
No idea for going rate of sbt without papers so can’t really help you there, I’m afraid.

Looking forwards to hearing more about your little one.
Any ideas for names ?

Hi. thanks for answering. We are going to call her olive. you are right im unable to upload or attach photos or url.

Many thanks

You should be able to modify your avatar photo straight away, I think
Olive is a lovely name.

Hi there, welcome to the forum from Flo and me

You might find that the Blue over powers the brindle with time but you’ll probably be the only ones that know that there’s brindle there anyway.

Sounds like you’ve done as best as you can with the checks so far, did you get to meet the father? The price sounds about right too.

You should be able to add a pic as an avatar but if you have any problems just shout.

Many thanks all. Avatar now added with pic of Olive. She is a cutie. Cannot wait to bring her home. 3 weeks Tuesday.

Ah yes, huge cuteness alert !
As soon as she gets home, don’t forget to take photos and videos of everything as they grow up far too quickly

Hi & welcome to the forum.

She's a real sweetie, isn't she? And Olive's a lovely name.

She'll probably develop some brindling as she gets older, but it's impossible to say how much. But she'll still be blue!

As to not having papers, you're taking a risk, health-wise. Although the chances are she'll be healthy, there are hereditary health problems in the breed that I doubt the breeder has carried out tests for as they incur cost! There is the DNA test for L2HGA, the eye test for hereditary cataracts and a couple of others as well.

The cost, I would say, is too high for a non registered pup - but she's worth what you are willing to pay for her! Because she's blue, the breeder is charging more for her than she should - it happens a lot.

Having said all that, I'm sure she'll be a wonderful companion & friend!

Thankyou for your comments gillybrent. I really hope she is well and without any issues.

I'm sure she will be.

A couple of things I was slightly concerned about. When we arrived yesterday to see the dog for the second time the house stunk of cigarettes. I also saw a flea on our olive, I didnt mention this, but asked if they will be treated for fleas and was told they cannot be treated until they were 12 weeks. Also saw the mother who was in the back garden and just barked at us... the owners said its because shes still being protective....

Not much you can do about the smoking, I'm afraid. The fleas? Well, hopefully there won't be an infestation & some diligent combing with a flea/nt comb will deal with them when you get her home.

What was the bitch like when you saw her last time?

She was the same. Out of the room and barking. I saw them stroke her and she was fine. Just barking at us.

Concerning fleas and internal parasites, my Nifty was wormed every 2 weeks since birth (dronstop and milbactor at 8 weeks) and the day I went to collect her at 8 weeks old, she was treated with an internal/external product (stronghold).
This is generally what most reputable breeders (professional or not) do here

Are you absolutely sure she's the mother? Usually you see the pups with their mum - it sounds odd that she was shut out.

I certainly wouldn't use a spot on flea killer on a pup. Worming is different, if you don't worm them regularly they can't cope with the worm burden & can go downhill rapidly. As for flea treatment, I wouldn't use a regular flea treatment for an adult (unless there was a need), let alone a young puppy.

yes they are being wormed. just not fleed yet... she is the mum yes, im sure of that...they only shut her out when we came as shes still a bit funny over them. they have weened the pups off mum now and onto weetabix and milk.... soon to be puppy biscuit soon

im less nicey nicey compared to the other guys on here, but i like to be honest.

firstly, i would never get a NON kc reg pup for many reasons. number 1, you dont actually know if the dog youre getting is a true staffordshire bull terrier, if you dont mind a cross breed then thats fine, but if you want a real staffy, only way to guarantee that is through papers. reason 2, and probably the most important, there will be no health tests what so ever on the parents, there are many common hereditary diseases that you must check both mum and dad do not have before breeding.

600 pounds in my opinion is very expensive for a non kc reg puppy, you will be paying more because she is "blue", but many puppies start off blue and the blue fades with time and brindle comes through, so yes she may change, she'll likely still be blueish, but she'll have brindle coming through. you want the pup to be a nice dark blue, these are the dogs that stay blue... others usually fade to a brindle, or a silvery blue, and the silvery blue dogs have more chance of skin/coat/health problems.

temperament of mum doesnt sound great, you should always check the parents before the puppies, when im buying a pup, i dont care about the pups whatsoever until i have thoroughly inspected and interacted with the parents, usually mother is present and i like to see dad too. i dont even look at the pups, i go straight to the parents, and only when im 100% happy and satisfied with the parents will i then go to the pups and pick the best. and you should be prepared to walk away if youre not satisfied, most people buy a dog from the first litter they see regardless, they seem scared to walk away without buying a dog, remember this is an investment, you are paying money, and a lot of money, on something, you want to make sure youre getting the best for your money. are you sure the mother is 100% staffy, did you interacted with the mother at all, even stroke the mother? have you seen the father, even a picture?

also, weaning the pups off mum, but on a diet of milk and weatabix isnt a complete diet for pups, weatabix are grain based, provide no nutritional value to the dog and grains arent great for dogs. so basically the dog is just getting milk, and im guessing cows milk? even kibble isnt great but id at least want my dog on some form of dog food. raw is obviously ideal but many breeders wont do that, as they try do it as cheap as possible, especially if theyre breeding non KC reg pups and are after a bit of money. also i know you can start weaning the pups at 4 weeks, but im not sure they should be off mum fully by 4 weeks? im sure you start weaning from 4 weeks and it should be completed by 7-8 weeks?

also the home doesnt seem ideal either, with the cigarette smell, but even worse the fleas on your dog. i dont know why you didnt mention it, you've purchased this animal, you've given these people a lot of money (£600) for what youre getting, the dog is now your dog, so any concerns you should mention and they should have no complaints about you speaking up about concerns you have.

as long as your dog is healthy then thats the main thing, theres no guarantee of it, because the parents will have no health tests, so id just cross my fingers, it should be fine i suppose. no-one can guarantee your dog will stay blue, again you can just hope.... many dogs start off blue and fade as they age, the brindle usually doesnt show itself until the dog develops/ages.

Weetabix and milk ??
More used to hearing about soaked puppy kibble

Nifty staffy wrote:Weetabix and milk ??
More used to hearing about soaked puppy kibble

ive known some people in the past feed weetabix. not sure where it all started, i think its to save money, weetabix are very cheap and filling. but it provides no nutrition whatsoever to the dog. even cows milk isnt great for the dogs.

they dont sound like good breeders at all. infact they dont sound like breeders, just random people who have had a litter of pups from their non registered "staffy" to make a bit of money. no papers, no health tests, weaned fully off mum too early, dog has fleas, mum is taken away when buyers come round, feeding the cheapest thing they can find.. weetabix and milk, which provides no nutrition that the pup needs, over pricing their dogs.. probably because theyre "blue" and idiots overcharge for blue dogs now, thinking theyre rare, but because of overbreeding blue is THE most common colour nowadays, if anything blues should be the cheapest pups because of this.

also the mum seems to have a bad temperament which theyre trying to justify as her being protective over the pups, ive never had an issue with a mother growling or barking at me because theyre over protective, i always view the mother with the pups. this temperament could be passed on to the pups... temperament has a lot to do with genetics.

did you see these dogs advertised online? id love to see the advert if you have a link?

https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/2031121-deepest-blue-and-last-boy-of-sky-ice-princes-lancaster.html

this is the shade of blue you want if you want the dogs to stay blue.... scroll through them pictures.

gillybrent wrote:Are you absolutely sure she's the mother? Usually you see the pups with their mum - it sounds odd that she was shut out.

I certainly wouldn't use a spot on flea killer on a pup. Worming is different, if you don't worm them regularly they can't cope with the worm burden & can go downhill rapidly. As for flea treatment, I wouldn't use a regular flea treatment for an adult (unless there was a need), let alone a young puppy.

Gilly > I respect your opinion but I would like to disagree about the flea treatment and here is my humble point of view. Fleas are parasites, parasites are undesirables. Flea infestation causes stress through itching and uncomfort.
As a new pup owner (especially the more novice type), pup coming home is already a big change for everyone and I would not want the added bonus of fleas to further deal with.
If, afterwards, you decide to reorientate type of feed or innoculation/parasite control, everyone can do as they please. But for me, by my humble expectations, I would want pup (or any other animal for that matter) treated in the best way possible. And that, for me, includes full internal/external parasite control.

Hi all. Thanks for your comments. So far just a £75 deposit. This is the 2nd litter the dogs had. We only saw a photo of the stud dog. We did want the 'real' blue colour... We have 3 kids and they are all really excited, but now not feeling very positive at all.

raptor8 wrote:We have 3 kids and they are all really excited, but now not feeling very positive at all.

Hey there, chin up. Most of the advice and experience that has been shared here is to help you have a wider understanding of what you can and maybe should expect from your staffy pup acquisition, not to put you off.

Maybe it's still time for you to look at your situation and see if Olive does tick all of your boxes.
What are you looking for ? KC world champion, part bred family pet or anything in between ? Does she fit in your budget ?
So she may not have the best textbook start in life but it doesn't mean that she won't be your family's best friend. It's just a question of calculated probability and risk taking.

Just remember that this acquisition is the beginning of a journey that is planned for the next 15 years or so.

Absolutely.

If Olive is the pup you want, go for it! Just bear in mind the things that have been pointed out & go from there.

I'm sure she will be everything you want in a family dog, and you'll never regret getting her. Once bitten (figuratively!), twice smitten - you'll want another one, either as a playmate for Olive, or when she's gone on. So, when you come to choose the next one, you'll have more information to call on in your choice.

Good luck! We'd love to see some photos when you get her home!

it depends if this is the dog you want. remember... you have this dog, hopefully, for the next 15-16 years. you need to make sure you get the right one, if you get a dog youre not happy with, you have it for many many years, all my staffies have lived till at least 15.

so its up to you, you've only paid £75, which over the long term is nothing. dont think youre tied down and cant change your mind and its too late, so far you've bought nothing. just have a think... there are many many litters about, so you could still get a dog soon so it wont upset the kids, they'll get their dog but if this dog is the one for you, then get her

but make your decision this way.... if you knew everything you knew now... but hadn't been to see this litter yet and hadn't already paid a deposit, would you go buy a dog from that litter. if yes, then keep her, if you wouldn't, then look elsewhere. if you could rewind time and you've not met the pups yet, would you still go see the litter and purchase her?


one thing though, consider your budget, in my opinion money doesnt matter as i buy the best dog i can find and the one i find most perfect, regardless of cost because its a very very very long term investment, and if i couldn't afford a few hundred pound more im probably not in a financial position to own a dog. but consider that while £600 is very expensive for a non KC registered dog, you'll struggle to find a good KC reg staffy for that price, especially blues. you'll be looking at £1000 at least id imagine. so thats another thing to consider.

i will tell you there is a litter local to me, i have seen a 1 year old dog that has the exact same 2 parents as this litter, and he is stunning. he is in the advert, 3rd picture from the end. hes a gorgeous dog, especially when you see him in person. if i was looking for a blue id probably buy from here, as the last litter these 2 dogs had turned out amazing. every time i see that dog i wish i owned him, hes 1 year old, and VERY true to type, short and stocky but with a lovely Bully head, perfect bone structure, lovely dark blue and excellent muscle. well within breed standard and not too tall like most staffies now and parents are kc registered and have all the required health tests.

https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/2029510-stunning-cheeky-boy-blue-sbt-puppys-for-sale-barton-upon-humber.html

Hi thanks for the advise guys really appreciated. I tried calling the above ad but no answer and really thats alot more than we wanted to spend. We are not really fissed about papers or kc registered as she will only be a loved family pet. But the most important thing to us is that she is healthy and with a great temprement. As we have 3 young kids and another dog we really want the best temprement going. Also We really want a blue staff with maybe some white. If any one knows any good breeders or anyone with healthy blue pups now, would be great for their number. thanks again

I'll confess I'm not a fan of the 'blue craze'. It causes problems for the dogs because (as this case may show), they are being bred to feed the market, not with the good of the dogs as the first consideration. Your dog will be your dog, regardless of the colour. One of my favourite horse authors has a book called 'A Good Horse is Never a Bad Colour' - it's true of dogs too!

If you want a purebred staff, I would go to a reputable breeder that you are happy with. KC papers one of the best ways of making sure the breeder is sound.

If breeding not so much of an issue for you, then look at rescues. We have a litter of 8 in at the moment (Essex). Not blue not full staffies but very cute and wriggly. They are only about 3 weeks old at the moment, though. That may be a no for various reasons but if you are interested let me know.

that AD was just my preference because ive seen the boy from their last litter and hes amazing.

try looking online, pets4homes , preloved etc.

google Staffordshire Bull Terrier Puppies for sale.

but if that money is too expensive, i think you'll struggle. like i say £1000 is probably the bare minimum for a proper KC reg BLUE staffy puppy. most are more.

so i think you'll struggle to find a KC reg dog with both parents health tested for your budget. most/all none KC reg dogs wont be health tested before being bred.

if you didnt want a blue staffy, then you'd be more likely to find a KC reg pup with health tested parents in your budget, but unfortunately Breeders all charge extra for blues, they started off rare so people charged more, theyre not rare anymore, and most are poorly bred, but the premium price has still stuck and i don't think will ever fall lower.

i personally don't mind the Price, i don't think you should be able to buy any dog for less that £1000, then only the really committed owners will buy them and they'll all go to good loving homes, and stops the wrong people getting hold of them, and obviously dogs are a big financial commitment, vet bills can cost 000's if anything goes wrong with your pet, and cheap dog food is terrible so i think dogs deserve a good diet which may cost a little more and im not a snobby rich guy either, i have an average salary job, but i would save up money for months to get the right dog, i see some dogs advertised for £100-£200-£300, i think thats pretty disgusting tbh, anyone could get hold of them. i also think there should be a licence to own a dog and you should prove youre knowledgable and capable enough to own one... but now i'm getting onto another topic haha

hope you find the perfect dog for you.

joshpills wrote:
try looking online, pets4homes , preloved etc.

I personally wouldn't trust a breeder that advertises on preloved, etc. It's full of sharks and they are very, very clever sharks.

But I do agree with Josh about the breeding of blues.

Sorry, we're not making your decision any easier, are we?

oh is it? ive never purchased a dog advertised on there so wasn't aware.

https://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/118363709/ready-now-unique-blue-staffy-puppiesexcellent-pedigree.html?link=%2Fclassifieds%2Fpets%2Fdogs%2Ffor-sale%2Fuk%2Fred%2Bor%2Bblue%2Bstaffy%2Bpups

pedigree pups there for £680. however theyre already quite old at 11 weeks, and probably only have 1 or 2 pups left. i always like to have a good choice and not just the left overs.

also its a preloved ad, so according to Liz not great? although im sure not all on there are bad.

always remember, we're just giving you as much info as possible and as many options as possible, if you still want the pup you've already seen, go for it we're just giving you as many options and opinions as possible.

wow josh they look fab. We always use pets4homes. The issue with preloved is they make you pay for an advanced account to see numbers. can you pm the number of you have those please.

Sorry, we don't have personal messaging or exchanges of email details on here and if any are posted they will be deleted. Forum rules, I'm afraid.

understood liz

i don't have the number anyway, i just noticed the AD cant you set up a free account and message them?

Yes will try. thanks.. any other breeders, reputable people welcomed

joshpills wrote:i don't have the number anyway, i just noticed the AD cant you set up a free account and message them?

No it only lets you respond to new ads with a premium account...

To be honest, you don't sound sure?

If that's the case then think hard - as already said, this pup should be with you for up to 16 or 17 years, but certainly for 14 or 15 years. That's a long time if you're not satisfied.

I wouldn't even LOOK at preloved or gumtree ads - most are unscrupulous back yard breeders (sorry to any who aren't) who don't give a damn about health.

One other thing to worry you with - do you know how inbred the pup is? A KC registered litter will have a COI figure (coefficient of inbreeding), and usually the lower the figure the better. Can the breeders tell you how many common ancestors are in the line?

I know we're making things difficult for you, but if you're spending nearly £700 you need to know your money is well spent!

gillybrent wrote:To be honest, you don't sound sure?

If that's the case then think hard - as already said, this pup should be with you for up to 16 or 17 years, but certainly for 14 or 15 years. That's a long time if you're not satisfied.

I wouldn't even LOOK at preloved or gumtree ads - most are unscrupulous back yard breeders (sorry to any who aren't) who don't give a damn about health.

One other thing to worry you with - do you know how inbred the pup is? A KC registered litter will have a COI figure (coefficient of inbreeding), and usually the lower the figure the better. Can the breeders tell you how many common ancestors are in the line?

I know we're making things difficult for you, but if you're spending nearly £700 you need to know your money is well spent!

Hi Gilly. To be honest I dont think they would know if I asked and as ive said the most important thing is the health and temprement as needs to fit into our household and with the kids.

i actually would imagine the COI isn't a problem here. these dogs have no papers, id imagine there is other breeds maybe mixed in somewhere alone the line, and also 1 dog is blue and 1 brindle, as far as i know blues came from predominantly black lines. id imagine the inbreeding here isnt an issue but i agree its better to know it.

i do agree that the OP doesnt sound too sure now about getting the original pup. if thats the case i suggest he stop, not get it, and just take his time thoroughly researching and find a litter that has everything he wants.
seems his/her top 3 priorities are

1) health
2) temperament
3) the dog stays blue.

well without health tested parents health will never be guaranteed.

the temperament of the mother didnt sound great and its concerning that the breeder didnt encourage you to interact with the mother. and she was taken away.
also pedigree staffies have AMAZING temperaments with people, especially children, theyre 1 of only 2 breeds that are recommended to be around young children. and staffies need this fantastic temperament because theyre strong powerful animals, if they have the tendency to snap, or be aggressive, they could do SERIOUS damage to someone. this is why i disagree with crosses when staffies are involved, many breeds are known to be more snappy and human aggressive, but theyre not as dangerous as staffies, but if you mix a staffie with a more snappy/less human friendly breed, it has the looks and strength of a staffy but could snap or bite, which is a recipe for disaster imo. i think staffies are getting a bad rep more because of crosses, i think most staffy attacks on people come from cross breeds, ive seen many experts make this claim. (no offence to anyone who has crosses, im sure your dogs are all great ), but this is another reason why i like KC registered dogs, i want to make sure im getting a staffy and not a cross breed, because pedigree pure bred staffies temperaments towards people is probably THE friendliest, THE most loving and THE most reliable out of every breed. mixing in other breeds will dilute this temperament.

and as for the colour, the dog seems to be showing signs of brindle already, and is already a very light silvery blue by looking at the pictures, so could very likely fade and end up silvery colour or silver/blue and brindle.

Thanks very much for your comments Josh. Yes we want a purebred and dont want agression coming though. Temperament and health totally outweigh colour.

Not to try and change your mind, which is clearly made up, but for the record staffy crosses do not tend to be snappy unless experience has made them so. I'm not sure where you got that from but I have met probably hundreds over the last years in the rescue and can't recall as one that was snappy without reason. If staffy crosses are more responsible for incidents that hit the press, it's probably because they are more common, easier to buy. Unreported by the popular press, most of the dog bite incidents also have history that places the fault with the owner/keeper, rather than the dog.

Please don't join the myth spreaders in giving our dogs a bad name.

Completely agree Liz. It's not the fact the dog is a cross it's the fact the owners abuse them.

i think when all is said and done, if you're not sure - if you're even the tiniest bit unsure - don't go through with it! The pup is, after all, a living, feeling creature, and you'd be doing her a disservice if you weren't 100% certain about her!

The COI can, actually, be high, Joshphills, especially if the cross(es) is way back in the lines. A high COI can come mainly from just one side of the family, and the pup is too stafford-like to have a drastic cross.

One other reason that the pups may not be registered is that the parents may be brother/sister mating, or father/daughter, mother/son. Those matings are highly undesirable & the KC won't register them. It could also be that the bitch has produced too many litters, or has given birth within a year of this litter. There are many reasons - and, I'm afraid, none of them are good.

oh im not trying to say ALL staffy crosses are snappy/aggressive, or most are. its obviously still going to be a very small minority, you may come across hundreds of crosses without ever finding a snappy/aggressive one.... and i agree most times aggression can be traced back to the owner.

BUT, i stand by my statement. staffies have the most perfect temperaments towards humans and crossing with another dog will dilute this temperament. ive been bitten by many dogs in my time... non a staffy. and non provoked either. a border collie chased and bit my leg while i was riding a bike, was bitten by a lab when i attempted to stroke it while talking to its owner, my friend had a golden retriever that used to occasionally bite people.. shed be fine for months then one day totaly unprovoked just bite someone. am i saying these breeds are aggressive and all dogs of this breed are? no.. but it is more common than you think and it goes unheard of because the dogs don't do significant damage so the attacks never get reported, i never reported a single time a dog ever bit me, but it happens with other breeds occasionally.

also i have owned in my time 8 Pure KC registered staffies, and 1 without papers, who grew taller than my others so i guess was a cross with something, although still resembled a true staffie. now the cross never "bit" me, but she was the one i trusted least, shes the one that would growl occasionally, whether you tried taking something off her, went near her when she was eating etc. all the dogs were raised the same.

so if you have a cross, im not saying your dog is aggressive, evil or nasty. theyre likely 100% trustworthy and perfectly behaved in every way, and im not doubting most/all the crosses you see are the same, 99% of the staffy crosses i see have absolutely perfect temperaments in every single way... im saying that i believe its more of a risk with a staffy cross. aggression doesnt have to be an attack... but growling, snapping, easier to provoke/annoy. i love all breeds but some breed are notoriously snappy, some breeds are notorious for being less human friendly than others.. this is just a fact, doesnt mean i dislike them or theyre evil. and its a fact that if you cross this breed with your staffy, part of its genetic temperament will be in the pup. if all dogs temperaments were the same, the Kennel Club wouldn't recommended only 2 dogs to be with small children, the staffy being one of them.. they wouldn't pick out certain breeds as been totally trustworthy around children, if temperament wasn't genetic. doesnt mean the other dogs are "guaranteed" to attack a child. you'll find many owners getting mad with this statement saying " well ive had 20 poodles and they've all been great with kids!!!!". im not disputing this fact and id be worried if it was anything different, but it doesnt change what im saying.

aggression can result from bad/abusive ownership no doubt... but temperament is also strongly genetic. it annoys me sometimes when people say the line " ITS NOT THE DOG ITS THE OWNER!" or pretend every single dog is exactly the same and its 100% how theyre raised. well thats just false, these dogs have been selectively bred for hundreds if not thousands of years to have certain traits. that comment does a disservice to the staffy because it has probably THE best temperament towards humans and especially children, this is genetic. a pure staffy should never attack a human or at the very least it should take far more to provoke a staffy to attack a person than it would another breed of dog. im not saying any other breed is aggressive, i love all breeds, but the facts are these breeds haven't been as selectively bred for their perfect temperaments towards humans as staffies have.

with this in mind, staffies should be more likely to not get on with other dogs outside of the family. staffies are on average more dog aggressive than other breeds, again due to their breeding. you'll find millions of staffs who get on fine with dogs, and early socialisation obviously helps. but a downside to a staffy is it is more likely to take a dislike to other dogs. a staffy cross may even be better in this regard, as it may dilute out some of the animal aggression.

remember, how you treat and raise a dog plays a HUGE role in how the dog behaves.... but GENETICS also play a key role and this sometimes gets brushed aside by the people saying "its not the breed its how you raise them!" which in parts is true in parts is false.
otherwise all dogs would act and behave the same regardless of breed, and anyone who's owned multiple breeds will tell you there is a big difference in personality between breeds. especially staffies theyre very unique.

Ok, I'm going to call and end to this thread. It has strayed off topic and I don't think it's now helpful to the OP.

Josh, I'm fairly sure you're just trying to be helpful but there is a slightly more argumentative/confrontational tone to your posts sometimes than we're used to. This is an open forum, with everyone's views welcome, but we do expect everyone to remain respectful of everyone else, whether or not your agree with them.