destructive and disruptive

Hi all,

I'm wanting some advice on chewing. Frankie is 8 months old and he is really destructive

Everything that is left in sight is chewed ripped and destroyed. Today was the door mat. I mean everything hes ripped things off the fridge (kids drawings) hes ruined my children's toys anything he can get his paws on. He has even ripped my sky tv wire on the external wall of my house and ragged it so hard hes snapped it and ripped it completely off the wall he regularly jumps up on our dining table and is jumping up at my 18 month old in his high chair while hes eating his meals.

Its really staring to get to me and my partner now. Is there anything you can recommend to stop this behavior?

Any advice is greatly appreciated...

Yep, there sure is! Two things that worked brilliantly for me when Zeus went through this stage:

1) Time out
Anytime Zeus did something wrong (like chewing), I'd tell him off then pick him up and put him in a different room for a minute or two time out. I'd then bring him back into the room and if he did it again, I'd do the time out again. There were times at the start where I'd literally do this 10/12 times in a row but sure enough, he got the jist of it and understood what I was doing.

2) Vinegar in a spray bottle
When Zeus was a pup, he went through a stage where he'd want to chew door frames, skirting boards, chair legs etc. A simple fix to this was to put white vinegar in an empty spray bottle and spray some onto the door frames or skirting boards. Yes, it stunk the house a little temporarily but it worked instantly. He'd never go back to the door frames and stopped straight away. It got to the point where as soon as I'd touch the spray bottle, he'd stop doing what he was doing, I didn't even have to spray it anymore!

My dog is only destructive when laren't in the room. I crate trained him and if I can't watch him or we go out for a few hours never longer I leave him with treats in his crate where he can't do damage and at night I have him sleep on the floor of the bedroom again so he doesn't chew things.

It's very common for puppies to destroy things but it sounds like Frankie's got it bad!

As well as looking at how to stop the behaviour with vinegar (possibly good idea) and crating (not so nice for the dog), I'd suggest you also delve into other related areas such as trying to reduce his urge to destroy and redirecting that need to other things.

How much walking/play time does Frankie get? And do you provide mental stimulation? It's quite possible that his chewing is in part a means of dealing with his physical and mental energy. If you can give him outlets for those energies in other ways, it might well reduce his need to chew. You obvioulsy can't walk him for hours at this age but make sure he does get whatever walking you can. Play with him - if he doesn't already know, teach him to retrieve balls and, importantly, teach him how to play tuggy games with control, i.e. that he can have a good old tug with you and leave the toy when you ask.

I'd also suggest 'mind games', so games for mental stimulation. Hiding treats for him to find will make his mind work, and hiding treats in cardboard boxes and tubes is a good cheap toy for them to try and work out. You can also buy activity games - I like the Nina Ottoson ones, they're remarkably robust - but you should supervise, and of course treat balls, again make sure you go for something robust.

Stuffed Kongs are a great favourite with a lot of people, you can fill them and stick them in the freezer for a summer treat or just to make them last longer. I give my dogs bones - veal or lamb, not big weight bearing beef bones - and they are great for sating their need to chew.

Hopefully, these things should at least mute the problem a bit.

The vinegar spray, by the way... if you are spraying while the dog is chewing something, be aware that it is probably not only the vinegar that he is reacting to but also the fact of the spray. It's an aversive - something not nice to stop the behaviour. I'd be wary of using it in this way in case you end up creating a fear. As goldie87 says, the mere sight of the spray bottle now creates a worry. I believe in solving worries, not creating them so this isn't something I'd recommend. If, though, you find that making something that's often a target smell of vinegar by dabbing it on helps, then I don't have a problem with that. But, of course, that won't take away the underlying need to chew so you're still best providing something else he can chew instead.

LizP wrote:
The vinegar spray, by the way... if you are spraying while the dog is chewing something, be aware that it is probably not only the vinegar that he is reacting to but also the fact of the spray. It's an aversive - something not nice to stop the behaviour. I'd be wary of using it in this way in case you end up creating a fear. As goldie87 says, the mere sight of the spray bottle now creates a worry. I believe in solving worries, not creating them so this isn't something I'd recommend. If, though, you find that making something that's often a target smell of vinegar by dabbing it on helps, then I don't have a problem with that. But, of course, that won't take away the underlying need to chew so you're still best providing something else he can chew instead.

I agree, Zeus is petrified of spray (as most dogs probably are) so I've never sprayed it while chewing or sprayed anywhere near him. I've always sprayed directly onto a surface that he's prone to chewing (mainly when he's not around to see me doing it). Then when he walks over to the area, he'd smell the vinegar and just walk away.

Another thing to add, Zeus absolutely loves Stagbars. Ever since we introduced them to him, whenever he has the need to chew, he'd go straight to the Stagbar and at times, chew them for an hour on end. This would be a good alternative to try.

LizP I think you should know the story before you judge what isn't nice for a dog. We first of all fostered and then adopted Freddie who'd had at least 8 homes in his first 10 months of life. Even the other rescue foster carers wouldn't have him longer than a couple of weeks this because of how destructive he was when humans were out. He did have other dogs for company. We tried everything even made sure he was never left home without a human which was extremely limiting on our lives. Then a crate was suggested by an experienced carer. He wasn't only doing many hundreds of dollars worth of damage also what he was doing was dangerous to him. Basically if I hadn't adopted him I think he'd either be dead or having a very miserable life. Instead I work bloody hard to help him. We are retired and he isn't left in the crate much at all but on the rare occasion we do both need to have a life for a few hours it helps us to know he is safe and that our house isn't being totally wrecked. I gave up trusting him when he demolished our windowsills and ate the dvd player.
Couldn't leave him outside either as he destroyed everything and his barking had the local authorities threatening. So crate training has its place if done kindly. He has no problem at all going in it. He is very eager to get his ball of treats. We have even videod him while we are out to make sure he isn't distressed.. I dont think we could be more caring about this dog as I said confining a dog as a last resort is better than euthanising him or sending him to the pound.

Sorry if I've caused offense, Svw, but my answer was in relation to Matty's question about Frankie and I was not in any way judging what you are doing with your dog.

I don't like the use of crates as a replacement for training but accept that they can be part of a training package in some cases. While desperate times call for desperate measures, as in your situation, non-desperate times are usually better addressed by less drastic measures. Advising what works for you in your unusual situation might be less appropriate for another dog.

I picked up on the crating because it is too often used as a quick fix and because too many dogs are not crate trained, they are just put in there and learn to get on with it. Yes, after time they do accept them but all too often the process can be confusing at best and brutal at worst. There are always exceptions to every rule but by and large a dog will always prefer to have the choice of where to lay, be it in a crate or elsewhere, rather than being locked in with his choice removed. I may love my bedroom but please don't lock me in there. That's what I mean by crates (with closed doors) being less nice for the dog, and why I think it is important to advise towards positive training methods first whenever possible, and hold off on the aversives and restraint methods for as long as you can.

can only agree with advice given chew toys mental stimulation are defo whats needed with frankie   svw perhaps  theres an underlying medical condition that needs to be addressed with your dog id advise a vet check to check his mouth for any issues.

No there isn't anything wrong with his mouth Mia he only chews when we turn our backs. Here in Australia many thousands staffy type dogs get euthanised every year, the pounds are full of them and of cattle dogs. They are there because they are so destructive and in lots of cases aggressive because the Owners didn't have time for them. I would think they are the most euthanised dog here. I work for a rescue organisation and it is sad so many are given up because people can't cope with their chewing, they end up abandoned in back yards and then dumped and they are very hard to get adopted. I agree they need a lot of training. I felt for Matthew because Frankie sounds extremely difficult at the moment. My preference would be leaving in the laundry with a gate across the opening he can see out of with something fun to chew on when you can't supervise Frankie but they are very intelligent dogs and mine soon learnt just where to put his nose to lift the mechanism and release the gate or he would bulldoze his way out.

Hi Matty, ah I feel your pain !! My boy is now 2.5 and I thought was the worst puppy on the planet !! He shredded my BBQ (as in ate the entire gas lines and every knob!), tore the built in underground termite system from underneath our house then chewed all the pipes, ate an external power point, ate the external screen doors etc. Horrendous ! Turned out he wasn't getting enough stimulation. As a short term measure we removed everything possible (this included literally strapping MDF boards to our BBQ to stop him getting to it) and sprayed various items with vinegar/chilli spray we made, made a big difference ! Eventually he learnt not to go to those things. We also started exercising him more (longer walks morn & night), and obviously made sure he was left with tough toys (rotated to keep interest) and a frozen Kong stuffed with treats each day. Tonnes of attention when we got home. His behaviour slowly (very slowly) got better as he got older, now I can confidently leave him home alone (13 hours a day if I'm home alone and at work) and know my house isn't being shredded. Stimulation is the key and remember a tired dog is a good dog !! Good luck, hope you find something that works for you and your pup. It's not easy I know !!!

Aussie Staff so great to read there is light at the end of the tunnel and that your boy has calmed down. Hope for us all.

Doesn't feel like there'll ever be an end to it when you're in it does it! I promise it DOES get better.

Wow thank you so much for all your replies i will definitely give everything a try because its getting silly now.

I usally walk him for around 40- 45 minutes each day (i was once told to walk around 5 mins per month old). I always leave him with toys when hes alone but he doesn't seem bothered about them. What sort of treats would be best to fill a kong with? I'll give the white vinegar a try today. I tried him with raw bones but it just upset his stomach. But i think they were beef...

Thanks again for all your replies

I reckon you could do a half hour walk twice a day and with enough attention/play outside of that he should be well tired

Fill the Kong with anything he likes, i BBQ sausages and steak for inside them or cheese cubes and seal ends with peanut butter then freeze, the frozen ones give a little more time spent on them and less on your house

Let us know how you're getting on

the '5 minutes per month' of exercise is fir EACH walk & a dig should have at least 2 walks a day. It also only applies to on lead walks on hard ground (pavement etc). you can add plenty of off lead play on grass or sand as lo g as the dog is given chance to stop & rest when they want to .

A real good training school is your best bet. I had Daisy when my youngest was 18 mnths and two other children so I know exactly how you feel.

I would remove the dog behind a gate when the little one is eating so unable to jump up.

Another thing you will prob find really peculiar that I did with Daisy, which was in Victoria Stilwells book is to always feed the kids first and when you prepare to feed the dogs food pretend to feed it to the kids in front of the dog whilst the dog sits (on lead if necessary). This makes the dog see the kids as higher in the pecking order.

Worked a treat for me. xx

i honestly don't think it matters at all who gets fed first - dogs don't really see it that way. i think it matters more that they see the food coming from you, and they're not allowed to help themselves or get possessive over it.

When you have babies though you have to watch they don't snatch off them, and need to know to sit and wait nicely while the baby feeds first.

From personal experience I would say it is a absolute must, they really do understand if you teach them. Kids walk around with food in their hands all the time so it is very important.

yes, but teaching them not to snatch/steel is different to having to be fed after the humans. it doesn't matter WHEN a dog is fed as long as it isn't allowed to just help itself whenever it wants.

the 'pack leader' theory (part of which is eating before the dog) has been shown to be false, and even the man who first coined it agrees that he got it wrong, his research was terribly flawed.

I don't want to argue with you, but I don't agree. That's my opinion.