Toilet troubles!

So I have two puppies who are 24 weeks old and still are not toilet trained! Every morning when I come downstairs (they sleep in the kitchen) there is wee and poo everywhere, the same happens if we come back from being out anywhere. They also don't ask to go out to the toilet so unless we are watching them and see them sniffing about in time for us to put them outside we end up with accidents in the house. We have tried giving them treats when they go outside as well as saying 'good toilet', we have tried taking them outside every hour but most of the time they just stand and stare at us as if they don't know why they are out there. If they start to go in the house then we pick them straight up and put them outside. We don't put puppy pads down anymore as they would wee on them and then rip them up so we ended up with soggy bits of puppy pads all over the place. We take them training and they get commands brilliantly so I don't know why they can't seem to grasp that toileting should happen outside. All of my other dogs have been toilet trained well before now and we have done it using the techniques I mentioned above so I have no idea what else I can try. Has anyone got any ideas of what else I could do to get them toileting outside instead of in my house please?

A couple of things to try Linzi are :-
1) clean up any mess without fuss but importantly with a deodorising cleaner. If they can smell where they've been before then they are more likely to go in the same place again thinking that's the place to go.
2) Don't take them out every hour. They are older now so should be able to hold on for longer. As one of the trainers on here has suggested to others, don't set them up to fail which you will be if they have nothing to actually do outside. Let them be for a couple of hours and then take them out. Ignore them until they have been and then huge praise and/or treats.

The penny will drop eventually

as they are older have you tried taking them to a patch of grass they may smell other dogs from there and will more likely want to toilet . remember when they do make a fuss of them. try not to lose your patience with them some dogs grasp the concept quicker than others . they will get the hang of it eventually

Thank you, I do use the deodorising cleaner already so I don't think it is the smell that is the problem. I've been letting them out less regularly and they are going and then coming back in but today I left them for three hours while I went to lunch with my dad and when I came back I had too poos and four wees left for me in the kitchen, even though they went right before I left. I am still coming down in the mornings to a room full of wee and poo too. I have thought about crating them at night to see if that will stop them but I really don't like the idea of it.

I can't take them to a patch of grass as I live on a main road and if I took them to the nearest grassed area it would take me 20 minutes to get there and they would have been by then. They do go outside, they just don't seem to be able to grasp that they should not be going inside too.