Help toilet troubles :-(

Hi folks,
I have a 4 month pup called diesel. He is a great dog but we are having trouble getting him properly toilet trained. We have had him since he was 8 weeks old and have tried paper training him since we got him. Every time he pee'd or poo'd we have been firm and lead him back to the paper and then gave him a few minutes time out to think about what he has done. He is our first dog we already have a bitch who within a week of getting her had got the paper to a tee.
I am kind of against crates, I have been advised to get him 1 and keep him in there overnight but he isn't destroying anything so I am a bit reluctant to coop him up in a crate all night. My biggest problem is during the night as through the day he gets out every hour almost but he does still have a few accidents though. We wake up in the morning and he has urinated and defecated all over the kitchen where he sleeps at night. It isn't just 1 or 2 it's like 4 or 5 of each nowhere near the paper and he does know he has done wrong because he heads straight for the bed as soon as you walk in and try's to avoid eye contact at all costs haha. Same when he does decide to pee inside during the day he looks straight at you squats, urinates then runs straight to the bed.
Has anyone had the same experience or any hints or tips as I only want to use a crate as a last resort. Thanks in advance. Steven.

Crate training really is fantastic for toilet training, please don't think of it as some sort of entrapment.

Do you send Diesel to his bed when he has messed? Also, are you able to get up a few times in the night to let him out to do his business?

at 4 months old is still wont have control of his bowel/bladder thou it sounds like he is learning well,make sure you take him in to the garden,even if he does'nt want to go every half hour/hour,after he was eaten of had a drink,give loads of praise when he does go!!

Like steels says he won't have full control of his bladder yet, he's still very much a baby, lots of praise and maybe a treat when he gets it right, when he has an accident, no fuss don't say anything just clean it up, then he'll learn if he gets it right it's good what do you clean up with? He may be able to smell were he went last (not saying your not cleaning properly) just that some cleaners don't always get rid of the smell, best thing is non biological washing powder, it breaks down the odour enzymes in the pee he'll get there.

Stevie87db wrote:
I have a  4 month pup called diesel. He is a great dog but we are having trouble getting him properly toilet trained. We have had him since he was 8 weeks old and have tried paper training him since we got him. Every time he pee'd or poo'd we have been firm and lead him back to the paper and then gave him a few minutes time out to think about what he has done. He is our first dog we already have a bitch who within a week of getting her had got the paper to a tee.

You say 'a few minutes time out to think about what he's done'? Unfortunately, a dog won't 'think about what he's done' at all, he'll just be confused because he doesn't understand why you're angry. No dog likes to mess his environment and will happily do his business outside as long as he understands that's where he needs to go. Do you have a garden?

Don't compare him to your bitch, you'll only find fault with one or the other!  Dogs in general don't have full control over their bladders/bowels until they're around 6 months old, so you must always expect accidents. Obviously some will get the hang of it more quickly than others.

Stevie87db wrote:
My biggest problem is during the night as through the day he gets out every hour almost but he does still have a few accidents though. We wake up in the morning and he has urinated and defecated all over the kitchen where he sleeps at night. It isn't just 1 or 2 it's like 4 or 5 of each nowhere near the paper and he does know he has done wrong because he heads straight for the bed as soon as you walk in and try's to avoid eye contact at all costs

He runs to his bed because you are angry. He may associate it with him peeing/pooing, but he won't understand that what he's doing is wrong - just that you are angry with him for doing it.

Stevie87db wrote:I am kind of against crates, I have been advised to get him 1 and keep him in there overnight but he isn't destroying anything so I am a bit reluctant to coop him up in a crate all night.

A crate can, if used properly, be a dog's best friend! If you get one that he can stand up, turn around & stretch out in, then it will become his safe place, his den. Put some bedding in the bottom & cover it with a blanket thrown over the top with just the entrance left clear & it'll be warm, snug and cosy. Shut the door last thing at night, and for a week or so set your alarm to get up at about 2 or 3 in the morning (a pain, I know, but it'll work!) to let him out for a pee/poo. Then gentle quiet praise and pop him back in for the rest of the night.

As long as he isn't left in there for hours at a time during the day or thrown in there as punishment he will actually start to look on it as his very own private space!

Thank you for your kind responses.
I do send him to his bed if he pee's on the carpet as he does know that that he is doing wrong. I have been cleaning up his mess with a strong disinfectant spray. I shall try the non biological powder just incase the disinfectant isn't working.
Unfortunately I don't have a garden at my back door but I have a long run out the back of our flat with grassy bits where he socializes with all the other dogs in the block.
I will try the crate if things dont improve in the next few days but I will find it hard to put him in it as my bitch was crate bound for 3 weeks when she was a pup due to a back injury and it nearly broke my heart lol He is a good pup he learns so quickly with all other stuff he has all the basic commands sorted and I can walk with him off the lead in a safe place and he wont stray to far away from me. He is basicly glued to my other dogs side and returns if called on. Just need to sort his toileting and we will have a great pup :-)

Hi and welcome  

When you take him out to his business, have a phrase to use eg 'do you business'. As soon as he starts to do something repeat that phrase until he has finished, then lots of praise. If you do this each time he will soon learn to associate thev two things.

I would start getting up in the night to take him outside, gradually prolonging the gap until he can go all the way through.

Unless you catch him in the act going in the house there is no point telling him off because he is not able to make the conection. Also I wouldn't send him to his bed for being naughty because it will confuse him, that is his safe place where he rests and sleeps to also use it as punishment doesn't work. Just a strong 'No' is sufficient.

Hope this helps but you can also look at this

http://staffy-bull-terrier.com/toilet_training_your_staffie

And when you get chance come and say hi here  

https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/f7-new-member-introductions