Short leads?

Hi all, just wanted to get some opinions about short leads (some people call them walking leads) Misty pulls like anything. We are still training her to heel but honestly this last week or so it's been a nightmare. If we stop and start then it's lasts maybe one or two steps before she's pulling again. We always have treats in our hands, when she heels she has a treat, but recently even treats aren't really working for more than a step or two. Ive heard about a short lead, obviously the shorter the lead the less she can pull away from us. What do you think? Are these ok to use? I don't want to cause her discomfort or anything and if these are considered harsh then no way will I buy one. We will still keep training her but just wondered if anyone uses them?

Tried a harness with lead? worked wonders for Iza when she was young.

Oh yep, she's always on a harness. Dread to think what she would be like on a collar only!!!

I love the ezydog cujo lead 25" one is perfect for us. It's a shock absorber lead and a lovely handle. Just under £20 for a new one in nice colours to

Thanks Ali, I'll have a look online now.

Always used a short lead with mia found this worked and has an integrated padded handle

Thanks Crystal. I know hubby really wants a shorter lead because as well as pulling she tries to eat any and everything she sees on the street now and with a shorter lead we can avoid the rubbish on the streets. Just wanted to make sure they were not harsh or cruel to dogs before we purchased one. Thanks for letting me know!

Mias is a chain lead just slightly shorter so shes right at my side at all times. I went to puppy classes ran by the local dog warden when i first got he has experience with plenty breeds particularly staffys with a long lead you have less control than with a short lead. But each to their own and its about what works for you the shorter lead suits me as im small anyway and mia was really bad at pulling.

To put the other side though, a shorter lead can make things worse. The problem with pulling is that the tension itself can cause an animal to pull. Try it human to human with a lead or something - if someone pulls your automatic response is either to let go or to pull back, it's rare that you just go with the flow unless you've been trained to or unless as a human you know what's coming.

To my mind, a short lead gives you no options, and gives the dog no options either. With a longer lead you can work with rewarding loose by giving more length. Extra length can also give added control, oddly enough. If you are already and the full length of a line and the dog pulls, you can end up getting dragged. With a longer length line the dog comes to the end and gets stopped sharp (as happened this morning when Chaos spotted the deer after I'd clipped him on, much to his disappointment).

And of course with a longer lead you can choose. You can coil and shorten it if you want. With a short lead that's it.

So for me a longer lead any day, but when all is said and done it's also personal preference and knowing what works for you and your dog.

Head Halti, Head Halti, Head Halti, Head Halti, Head Halti.....
Shorter lead? I just hold it further down, I have a lead rope, soft on the hands, when i'm around people or walking with people my boy gets excited so his head halti is just clipped to the handle and hangs down as we walk.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Horse-Pony-Donkey-Dog-Lead-Rope-LEADROPE-2M-Long-Clip-Strong-Twisted-Cotton-NEW-/150740603350?var=&hash=item2318d711d6:m:md0q6CiUnW_WV8AUoyjdXlQ

have you tried a slip lead as a figure of 8, goes over the nose, i use this lead on customers dogs that pull me around a lot. i have showed some of my customers and other people whilst out walking this technique and they think its a miracle

NOOOOOO- Ive just typed an essay for my reply and lost it all

Ok lets try again. 

Thanks everyone for your advice its much appreciated. Liz you are definitely right about the longer the lead it can be easier. When she is on the long line in training class and we do walk to heal she is much more responsive. Its on a normal lead for a street walk that shes a nightmare! Well Tuesday night we went for our evening walk and she was auditioning for Rudolphs job by showing how well she can pull. Hubby had brought his clicker with him- (we haven't used this much as when we started a few months ago she seemed quite nervous of the sound in the house) well he clicked once when she was pulling and that was it- she turned straight around to us and had a treat. This carried on the whole walk- when she started pulling - one click and she came back for a treat. It was unbelievable- I have no idea why it worked but it did. If she pulled to meet a dog on the other side of the road then click- back to us she comes. So all was going really well until we walked down a road, got halfway down and made her sit at a kerb then out of nowhere a black staff came (off lead, no owner) and tried to mount her and was really aggressive. They had a harness on so as Im looking for an owner Im trying to drag this dog off but because Misty is twisting they dont stay still long enough for me to get the dog off her. Eventually Misty twisted away from them and then jumped into my husbands arms. This dog then ran in the road and a young guy came running down the street- I screamed at him that his dog has just attacked my dog and he said ' Sorry but its not my dog' The dog then ran off down an alleyway and the guy ran with him. I was just rooted to the ground in shock- was terrified to see if Misty had been hurt. Luckily hubby had checked her out and apart from being scared she only had scratches on her side and belly. I did wonder if it was the same black staff that bit her in the park a few months ago and would make sense as the guy said it wasnt his dog as he wasnt the owner I have seen wiwth this one in the park.We took her straight home- it was hard not to make a huge fuss of her but we didnt want to make like it was a big deal so we just treated her as normal (loads of kisses and hugs) but nothing out of the norm. So last night we wanted to take her somewhere nice- we took her down the river and parks. She was on the long line when a really big dog came. She obivously ignored us ( and the clicker) and layed on the floor until he approached- they had a one second sniff and that was it. The pair of them were chasing/running/jumping all over each other. It was lovely to watch!! his name was Sam and he was a 2 year old rescue that had preivously been a stray- he was absoutely gorgeous- they were having a great time. He was dragging her around by her cheek- I saw hubbys face fall when this happened but I told him it was fine. Her old friend the staffy x Chow Chow did that and she loved it- never any marks and she would always go back for more. So the pair of them were running around like mad dogs having a great time when a big black lab came up to them. Misty lay on the floor and Sam went up for a sniff- then it was game on- the three of them were running around and playing a good old game of chase. They had plenty of short breaks in the game and it was wonderful to see Misty so deliriously happy. What I loved was the fact both her and Sam played complelty differntly with the lab- there was no rough play it was purely a game of chase with him. Then a terrier type and pure Staff came over - quick sniff of each other and they ran back to their owners then the three of them continued their play. Its was the best night ever!! We met lovely people and amazing dogs!! It was lovely to talk to people while our dogs played. I know my hubby was over the moon as he has never seen her properly play with other dogs- meet them yes but not run around like mad things! We are off back there tonight to hopefully repeat the fun.
From now on Im never going to worry about her meeting another dog- she met a very scared whippet type thing when his owners brought him over to us and she was so sensitive - had a brief meet then she kept her distance and the whippet responded really well and the owners gave us a massive smile! Im on cloud 9 today thinking of her having so much fun last night!!

Aw emma lovely hen pity about the staffy. What a lot of people dnt take into account is just because you don't own the dog does not mean you aren't responsible for them. Hope her scratches arent too bad emma its a great sign she isnt allowing other dogs bad behaviour affect her too much what a great wee dog you are misty

Mistys Mum wrote:NOOOOOO- Ive just typed an essay for my reply and lost it all

Ok lets try again. 

Thanks everyone for your advice its much appreciated. Liz you are definitely right about the longer the lead it can be easier. When she is on the long line in training class and we do walk to heal she is much more responsive. Its on a normal lead for a street walk that shes a nightmare! Well Tuesday night we went for our evening walk and she was auditioning for Rudolphs job by showing how well she can pull. Hubby had brought his clicker with him- (we haven't used this much as when we started a few months ago she seemed quite nervous of the sound in the house) well he clicked once when she was pulling and that was it- she turned straight around to us and had a treat. This carried on the whole walk- when she started pulling - one click and she came back for a treat. It was unbelievable- I have no idea why it worked but it did. If she pulled to meet a dog on the other side of the road then click- back to us she comes. So all was going really well until we walked down a road, got halfway down and made her sit at a kerb then out of nowhere a black staff came (off lead, no owner) and tried to mount her and was really aggressive. They had a harness on so as Im looking for an owner Im trying to drag this dog off but because Misty is twisting they dont stay still long enough for me to get the dog off her. Eventually Misty twisted away from them and then jumped into my husbands arms. This dog then ran in the road and a young guy came running down the street- I screamed at him that his dog has just attacked my dog and he said ' Sorry but its not my dog' The dog then ran off down an alleyway and the guy ran with him. I was just rooted to the ground in shock- was terrified to see if Misty had been hurt. Luckily hubby had checked her out and apart from being scared she only had scratches on her side and belly. I did wonder if it was the same black staff that bit her in the park a few months ago and would make sense as the guy said it wasnt his dog as he wasnt the owner I have seen wiwth this one in the park.We took her straight home- it was hard not to make a huge fuss of her but we didnt want to make like it was a big deal so we just treated her as normal (loads of kisses and hugs) but nothing out of the norm. So last night we wanted to take her somewhere nice- we took her down the river and parks. She was on the long line when a really big dog came. She obivously ignored us ( and the clicker) and layed on the floor until he approached- they had a one second sniff and that was it. The pair of them were chasing/running/jumping all over each other. It was lovely to watch!! his name was Sam and he was a 2 year old rescue that had preivously been a stray- he was absoutely gorgeous- they were having a great time. He was dragging her around by her cheek- I saw hubbys face fall when this happened but I told him it was fine. Her old friend the staffy x Chow Chow did that and she loved it- never any marks and she would always go back for more. So the pair of them were running around like mad dogs having a great time when a big black lab came up to them. Misty lay on the floor and Sam went up for a sniff- then it was game on- the three of them were running around and playing a good old game of chase. They had plenty of short breaks in the game and it was wonderful to see Misty so deliriously happy. What I loved was the fact both her and Sam played complelty differntly with the lab- there was no rough play it was purely a game of chase with him. Then a terrier type and pure Staff came over - quick sniff of each other and they ran back to their owners then the three of them continued their play. Its was the best night ever!! We met lovely people and amazing dogs!! It was lovely to talk to people while our dogs played. I know my hubby was over the moon as he has never seen her properly play with other dogs- meet them yes but not run around like mad things! We are off back there tonight to hopefully repeat the fun.
From now on Im never going to worry about her meeting another dog- she met a very scared whippet type thing when his owners brought him over to us and she was so sensitive - had a brief meet then she kept her distance and the whippet responded really well and the owners gave us a massive smile! Im on cloud 9 today thinking of her having so much fun last night!!

Correct me if im wrong but that sounds like your rewarding her when she pulls...you should be clicking when the lead is lose/she is by your side.

Thanks Crystal, yes she is such a great little girl.I'm so lucky!

Amelie, yes I did wonder the same, if I was rewarding her for pulling, but she pulled a lot less when we used the clicker. It's hard to reward her when the lead is loose as it's only lose when she comes back after hearing the clicker! Hoping she will stop the pulling soon.

Yes, that does sound upside down to us because we know that the click should be paired with the reward. But, if you look at it from a theoretical point of view, it doesn't have to mean that. In this case, the click has become the command, a 'watch me' command which Misty knows means look at the human and you'll get a treat. So no, I don't think it is rewarding the pull as the reward, in this case the treat and not the click, is given for not pulling.

Having said that, it's not really clicker training and if you did want to start using the click as 'that's it' punctuation to reinforce something else, it might be confusing at first.

Thanks Liz. Well after thinking about maybe I'm rewarding behavior I don't want I changed it tonight. We walked and when she pulled, I click like you say purely to get her attention. She would come back, I'd let her see the treat but then make her heel and then give her the treat. It worked really well, something about the clicker just makes her come to us. She would even heel for much longer than she ever would. She does know a watch command but when she's pulling literally anything we say falls on deaf ears, even telling her about the lovely treats we have. The walks take so much longer as we have to stop and wait ages for her to come to us! Hoping this will last and she will get so used to being by us and heeling that she won't need the clicker anymore.

If it works for you that way, Emma, then don't worry if it's not 'right'. I do like the idea of using the clicker as your 'oi' if that's what you need, then asking her to heel and keeping her with you with a treat. The method of holding a treat above your hip to keep the dog's nose in the right place is one of the best ones, I find, so combining that with what you're now doing might help.

It's very easy to get stuck with how something should work but so often doing something different can work equally well for an individual person and/or dog, and if it's not standard well who cares! I would, though, keep in mind the theory of how it all works (did you read my 'how learning works' thing?) so you can see why something works and then expand on it.

winnie105 wrote:I love the ezydog cujo lead 25" one is perfect for us.  It's a shock absorber lead and a lovely handle.  Just under £20 for a new one in nice colours to

winnie

Thanks Liz, I'm pretty sure I have read it before but I'm have a reread today. I love this forum so much and have learnt so much! Thanks.

That makes 2 of us emma