Growling/aggression during 'Settle' command

Hi all.

I have a 16 week Staffie girl. We are doing puppy socialisation classes, where she is generally OK. But becomes very distracted after about 15 minutes and loses interest in treats as the other dogs and people are far more exciting.

In any case, the training includes basic obedience like sit, come, heel etc. But she goes totally nuts when we try put her in the 'settle' position on her side. She even snapped at my husband very hard and growls aggressively.

Any advice? Do we just keep on until she gets used to it? Is there another posture that can achieve the same results?

They also recommend halti training, I have been putting it on while she eats which is fine, but after that she hates it and manages to get the harness off in about 10 seconds. Is this a suitable harness for a Staffie? Or is there a better option?

We live in the city so it's really important that she is obedient.

Thanks for your advice in advance!

I've never heard of the 'settle' position and from what you say I wouldn't recommend it. By snapping when you try and put her in that position she is telling you she feels vulnerable and exposed. A dog will only display its belly if either it is either very comfortable with its situation or it is displaying submission, either towards another dog or a person (which may be good or bad, depending on the situation). Either way you should never try and pressure a dog onto its side or back, it could cause real aggression issues further down the line and if the 'trainer' is recommending this then I'd strongly suggest finding new classes.

The halti, IMO, is a not a good substitute for training. It's unnatural and again it could lead to unwanted behaviour. Basic harnesses are the best for Staffies (I don't recommend collars for pulling or untrained dogs). I use Ferplast harnesses but I know others on here use and recommend a number of different types.

Thanks for the feedback. It seems that the more docile breeds at the classes have no issue with being placed on their sides, but our pup doesn't like it at all.

She is pretty good with sit, down, come- when not distracted by the world!

I am thinking that the training may not be a good fit for her temperament. Likewise the halti. All the other dogs seem to be totally fine with it.

I just worry about her not being obedient when she's bigger so want to get her on the right start with training!

I never heard of dogs being made to lie on their side or belly except for on The Dog Wisperer.

Agree with Dogface.. I've never heard of the settle command, nor would I try to roll any dog on their side. Sounds like an 'alpha roll,' I also can't understand why you would need a halti train a puppy? Surely positive reinforcement for loose lead walking would be more suited?

Can I ask for a link to the trainer's website?

I agree that it doesn't feel quite right. It's a well-respected and popular training school in Cape Town http://capeprovincedogclub.co.za/

Rachel33 wrote:Agree with Dogface.. I've never heard of the settle command, nor would I try to roll any dog on their side. Sounds like an 'alpha roll,'

You're probably right about the 'alpha roll'. From their website (my eyes are just recovering from the intense redness)

"When you feed your puppy, stay with him while he eats, stroking him and handling his food. If you get a growl or your puppy stops eating and stiffens, say “No!” firmly and remove the food for a few minutes. If the puppy attacks you, put him into the settle position, flat on his side until he is calm. Release him to try again. "

To me that is very strange advice. I'm not sure the words 'puppy' and 'attacks' should even be in the same sentence but I can't see that forcing any dog onto its side will help the situation. Dogs will do it to other dogs and will learn from it but I doubt it has any place in a human / dog relationship. And aggression aside, forcing a dog onto its side for no other reason than to calm it has got to be a bad idea.

Yep, very old fashioned and outdated advice, unfortunately could do a lot more harm than good!! If you can't find a modern positive trainer you can learn a lot from youtube videos - could link you to some if you would like

That would be great. Please do share the YouTube vids. I will also ask around among the local community for some recommendations for other training schools. It's my first time raising a puppy as an adult so everything is new to me!

I agree with the above advice. For training her attention span is normal. Try multiple sessions per day and keep them to about 15 minutes.

Hey if you search for kikopup and Zak George on youtube that should give you some info for now, I'll get the rest when I'm on the laptop

Victoria Sitwell has some good puppy videos. Here's a link to one of them - teaching a puppy to lie down - and from there you can explore other ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn_GEhid88Y

I dont agree with the settle command either, very unnatural. Good advice above and I hope you find a better training class via those video links.

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the feedback.

Just for clarity, the settle command is not so much an alpha roll as a 'play dead' command. The generalised approach in the class is obviously not working with her, so we will look for another way.

But also, obviously she can't always do exactly how she pleases and will have to learn how to deal with some things she doesn't like doing without getting too cross!

She's a stubborn, super smart, wonderful little creature

There are two important points coming from your last post, Laura. Firstly, no matter how it's done, asking a dog to roll over is a big thing. It's putting the dog in a very submissive and vulnerable position. I'm not saying you should never do it, but if you do it has to be with care. I did teach one of my previous dogs to do it as a means of teaching him to relax, but was super sensitive to how he was feeling about it all the time, and also took care not to be over him or make him feel in any way dominated. I cannot see the point of doing it routinely as a part of training a puppy, in fact the opposite. As you yourself has found, it can make a dog unhappy and resentful.

The other point is the one about dogs needing to learn they can't always do as they want, and sometimes have to do things they'd rather not. Yes, that's true. However, you need to teach them what you would like them to do in a sympathetic, positive and fun way, so they WANT to do what you ask. Take the case of a dog having something they shouldn't. You could rely on yanking jaws open, you could teach them to let go by the threat of something unpleasant, or you could teach them to give up what they have in exchange for a treat. I use the latter approach and have 3 dogs who will drop anything I ask. If it's something really, really high value, I may resort to me 'I mean it' voice and look, but that's as far as it goes. Chaos caught one of our chickens and dropped her unhurt because I asked him to, then followed up with telling he what a fab dog he was and playing with him. His own choice would have been to kill and eat poor JoJo, but positive and fun training meant he only gave me a little 'do I have to' look before opening his jaws.

You can always train and animal to do things because he has to, and he will usually do just that but no more. If, though, you teach an animal to do something because he wants to, the sky's the limit. With the former you may get ill will and crossness, with the latter you'll just get joy.

Thanks LizP. That's just how I see it. Everybody has so many opinions that it's difficult to know what is the best way at times.I feel 100% sure now that the approach for that particular exercise was not right for her,even if it works just fine with some other dogs.

She is pretty good with all the other training so I am confident she will just get better and better with consistent postive training. She is a smart girl!

These responses have been very helpful though. Thanks again.

Totally agree with Liz above. I've seen other methods used and the outcome has never been good but high value treats and praise work wonders (except I still can't get my Flo to drop her Stix )

ian

Totally agree with Liz.