Over-excitement and obsessive behaviour

Hi there, I'm new to the forum, and a new dog owner.  Both of our families have had dogs before when we were kids but neither of us have ever had our own dog before so things like training are pretty new to us.  My apologies for the length of the post, I hope you can get through and that someone has experience something similar and/or has some useful advice!!

So we brought home our new rescue dog, Rosie, a week ago today.  She was a stray so we don't know much about her, she's 3-4 years old and they think either a staffy or staffy cross.  She settled in pretty quickly after initially destroying the bed we bought her and destroying all her toys the first afternoon, she's defo very smart and picks things up very quickly - fantastic on the lead, very good around food, quiet at night, very good with visitors and people generally, reasonably good around other dogs, no issues with toilet stuff, etc.  But we're having a major problem with over-excitement and toy/play obsession.

HOME - When she wants to play she barks, you can see it building up, she tends to start sneezing and/or rubbing her face on the carpet, and chasing her tail, and then the barking and growling will start.  Walking doesn't help, I took her for 7 long walks one day but clearly play is different from walking.  I've tried instigating tug with her during the day to stop it building up, which worked at first, but now if I touch her tug ring toy she starts barking at me immediately. First off we tried a loud firm "no" or "quiet" but that just made her worse, then we tried ignoring her, crossed arms, turn away, avert gaze, and it was succeeding in calming her pretty quickly, but the newest development today is that when I do that she runs around the house like a maniac, jumping on and off furniture, barking and jumping at me. I let her in the garden once when she was in this mood thinking it might calm her to be outside but she ripped up the garden, chewed up a concrete goose and ran in and out of the house, mud everywhere.

I figure it's obv because she's bored and wants to play, but we can't work out how to let her do this, we have a small terraced house with a small paved backgarden so we can't play ball with her (and I won't let her off the lead at the park), squeaky toys are a trigger for her and turn her into destructor as well, when she's over-excited like this she destroys all the toys that normally she's not interested in (rubber bone, dumb-bell kong treat thing, boingo ball, her bed...) so that's cost us a fortune already, so we only keep out the things she can't destroy like deer antler, nylon stick thingy, rubber tug ring, but she just seems to ignore them now.

AWAY - We took her round the in-laws on Saturday (who have a large house and garden which is ideal for us to take her for fetch etc) to introduce them to their grand-doggy and to have dinner etc, but all she did for 3-4 hours was want to play constantly, if we sat down for a minute she would bark at us, if we hid her balls/tug thing she would scratch at where she knew they were and then come bark at us.  We put her harness on and walked her around the garden as this turns her super calm, but as soon as the harness came off again.... She was absolutely exhausted, panting like crazy but she refused to stop.  I know this is toy/play obsession and it's not healthy for her but it's working out how to calm the behaviour, get her to settle down and realise that when we say "FINISHED" as we do (which initially worked at home when we played tug but not anymore since she won't let me play tug anymore), that she needs to stop and settle down.  We ended up having to go home early and skip dinner because she just wouldn't stop and we were close to tearing our hair out.

I just don't know what to do, toy-wise, or to calm her down or to discourage the behaviour, and atm I'm on edge all day (which probably isn't helping the situation) whilst my partner is at work waiting for her to start barking at me. Today I spent the last hour before he came home locked in the loo crying because I couldn't face going out to her again.  I keep hoping that this is something that will settle the longer she's here, but it seems to be getting worse daily.  I love her, we both do, she's so lovely when she's behaving, but to get through tomorrow all I can think is to shut myself in my office when I'm not walking her or preparing/eating food.

Very much hopeful that someone will have some useful advice, thanks for reading if you made it to the end!
Loops x

hia loops from me and sasha,i have never rescued before so i'm just making suggestions here,a week is a short space of time so may be give her a couple more weeks to calm down,every thing is new and exciting to her,being a stray you dont know what her other home was like,may be she was shut away alot so having a new house where she feels comfortable in is very exciting to her.my sash is 10 now and when she wants to play she will still bark at oh!get her a long lead so when your walking her she can have a run about but your still in control of her,there's lots of members on here that have rescued hopefully they can help more

The dog still settling in best advice is to ignore her behaviour it isnt easy eventually she will get the message sounds like shes testing what she will get away with. Perhaps a male could help as their tone of voice makes a dog pay attention. It isnt easy training sometimes as u have to be strict it takes time, patience and hard work ull get there . If u want the dog to do something try for 10 minutes no more . If u feel stressed go to a quiet room away from the dog.

My favorite bit of that story was "chewed up a concrete goose" I never thought I would read that on a forum

Try and make a routine up for her and stick to it play with squeaker toys before meal time then put them away and distract her with dinner once dinner is over give her 1/2 hr before you walk her after that try and settle her down with a chew toy or bone.

Try something like the above make it fit your daily schedule be firm and consistent give her some time to adjust dogs like routines their internal clocks will let them know whats coming next.

Also if the problems seem to be building a visit to a vet, behaviorist or dog obedience class wouldn't hurt.

Cheers

Rofl, I still have a concrete snail out there that I'm hoping she won't take exception to when we let her back out there again!!

Well alas I don't think a squeaker toy would work in that the last one we gave her didn't even last 5 mins before it was ripped to shreds, the squeak itself lasted only about a minute!  We still haven't managed to find a toy that she can play with on her own and not destroy    Any ideas?

I like the idea of routine though, I had been trying to make everything random as I thought that was better for her excitement levels but this evening I was just saying that perhaps I need to set times for food and walks etc instead to make her day more structured.

RiV wrote:My favorite bit of that story was "chewed up a concrete goose" I never thought I would read that on a forum

Try and make a routine up for her and stick to it play with squeaker toys before meal time then put them away and distract her with dinner once dinner is over give her 1/2 hr before you walk her after that try and settle her down with a chew toy or bone.

Try something like the above make it fit your daily schedule be firm and consistent give her some time to adjust dogs like routines their internal clocks will let them know whats coming next.

Also if the problems seem to be building a visit to a vet, behaviorist or dog obedience class wouldn't hurt.

Cheers

Have a look in hear https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/f17-staffordshire-bull-terrier-tried-tested

and see if there is anything.

In the yard when we are not home we leave a small rubber tyer, hard plastic ball, bones and a coconut.

When we get home tug toys come out frisbeez and squeekes.

Cheers

Excitement !... Your her new best friends and all she wants to do is play and please you. I am certain that once you get into a routine things will calm down. I'm a little saddened that she reduced you to sitting on the loo for sanctuary but they will pick up on emotions too, so that might be adding to the issue.

Give her time to settle and get in to a routine too. In a few weeks time you'll be wondering what that huge long post above was all about

good answer ian

Hello! Few questions - how long was she in kennels, and was she destructive in her kennel? What colour is she (may seem random but I'll explain later)? How is she with other dogs? What commands does she know? Do you have a crate?

You said that she seems to calm down when you put her harness on, have you considered using a Thundershirt ? I have put a link below explaining all about them, please have a shop around online for a good deal if you do decide to purchase one:

http://www.thundershirt.co.uk/

Sorry more questions - What food is she fed ? Have you changed from what she had at the rescue centre ?

I'm sure once she is in a good routine you will see an improvement in her behaviour.

Rachel33 wrote:Hello! Few questions - how long was she in kennels, and was she destructive in her kennel? What colour is she (may seem random but I'll explain later)? How is she with other dogs? What commands does she know? Do you have a crate?

how long was she in kennels, and was she destructive in her kennel? -
She was at the shelter for 9 months, and no she wasn't destructive, they said she was very neat and tidy (if you can say that about a dog!), which we do see, she doesn't touch anything that isn't hers (except for the concrete goose!)  They only gave her one walk and play session a day though, and she was very possessive of toys.

What colour is she (may seem random but I'll explain later)?
She's white with like dark blotches, with very short white fur.

How is she with other dogs?
Not overly reactive, I've let her have a sniff round a few though usually it results in a little growling so I pull her away.  She's quite nervous of dogs off the lead though, she'll check over her shoulders a lot to check they're not getting too close.

What commands does she know?
Sit, lay, down (from the sofa/bed), downstairs, drop, stop, wait, cross (the road), look (at me, when we're at a junction), eat (I make her sit still and wait before I allow her to eat), bed, no, come, and I'm working on heel at the moment which she's doing quite well at.  I think that's about it.

Do you have a crate?
No, I have had a few people suggest crating but we only have a small house and have nowhere to fit it

Kathy wrote:You said that she seems to calm down when you put her harness on, have you considered using a Thundershirt ? I have put a link below explaining all about them, please have a shop around online for a good deal if you do decide to purchase one:

http://www.thundershirt.co.uk/

Sorry more questions - What food is she fed ? Have you changed from what she had at the rescue centre ?

I'm sure once she is in a good routine you will see an improvement in her behaviour.

Do you know I read about the thundershirt yesterday in another thread somewhere and looked it up, I defo think that might be worth trying, we thought that perhaps she felt better with the harness on because she knew we were in control then (as she usually has her lead attached then), but upon reading about thundershirt I wonder if it's the constriction feeling that comforts her instead.

What food is she fed?
Dry food, the shelter advised that dry food (or raw) was the healthiest food for her to have and we so we bought a couple of smaller bags of dry by brands recommended on this website, Barking Heads (salmon, her fave so far) and Arden Grange (can't remember the flavour offhand, lamb I think)

Have you changed from what she had at the rescue centre?
We never asked what they were feeding her, but I would think probably dry since that's what they recommended to us

Thanks for the all the advice so far guys, this is all so helpful!  We're setting up a routine as of today, marking times on the fridge so we can't forget

Rocky would recommend the Barking Heads food as he has this, the Fat Dog Slim version just to keep on eye on his weight a bit. This food may appear to seem more expensive than others but consider that you don't need to feed so much each day it works out very good quality and inexpensive. We feed Rocky 80 - 100 grams per day and a 6 kg bag will last for about 7 weeks.

Kathy wrote:Rocky would recommend the Barking Heads food as he has this, the Fat Dog Slim version just to keep on eye on his weight a bit. This food may appear to seem more expensive than others but consider that you don't need to feed so much each day it works out very good quality and inexpensive. We feed Rocky 80 - 100 grams per day and a 6 kg bag will last for about 7 weeks.

Wow, that makes me think perhaps we're feeding Rosie too much!  We feed her around 280g per day which I estimated from the back of the packet (she's 24kg), plus a small splodge of pumpkin puree (to dull her stinky farts!) and usually some kind of dentastix or the like daily.  Now I'm thinking perhaps that's way too much?!

FruityNutLoops wrote:...but the newest development today is that when I do that she runs around the house like a maniac, jumping on and off furniture, barking and jumping at me. I let her in the garden once when she was in this mood thinking it might calm her to be outside but she ripped up the garden, chewed up a concrete goose and ran in and out of the house, mud everywhere.

The concrete goose was very nearly responsible for tea on my keyboard. Luckily I contained it in my nasal cavity and disaster was averted.

I would say that you really can't expect something to work in a day. I'd continue with what you've recently started, that is completely ignoring her when she demands to play but you don't want to. Don't let her in the garden, that's a reward, just ignore her or better yet, confine her to a single room until she calms down. It may take weeks or even months but she'll get the message.

Bo used to be demanding, not as bad as your dog but he'd bring me his toy then thrust it at me growling and hit me in the face with his paw if I didn't immediately start playing. Then he'd drop the toy and start fast running around the room, touching the toy with his nose every time he passed it. Once he jumped over a visitor's shoulder at about 20mph as they were sitting on the couch desperately shielding their cuppa.

To stop this, whenever he demanded to play and I didn't want to I started telling him, "Enough," then completely ignoring him. After a couple of weeks he began to get the message. Now he's perfect in the house, he'll sit quietly between walks and not make a sound and he'll only play when I say he can. If he's playing and I say "Enough," he'll walk away immediately. I didn't train him to do this, all I ever did was ignore him when he got daft.

Unfortunately this doesn't work when he's with other dogs. Last time he played with a puppy he got so tired he was literally dragging himself across the floor to play, nothing would stop him. My visitors had to go home early. That's another challenge entirely but I think the more dogs he meets the better he's getting.

FruityNutLoops wrote:

Wow, that makes me think perhaps we're feeding Rosie too much!  We feed her around 280g per day which I estimated from the back of the packet (she's 24kg), plus a small splodge of pumpkin puree (to dull her stinky farts!) and usually some kind of dentastix or the like daily.  Now I'm thinking perhaps that's way too much?!

Wow, that does sound like a lot of food, Rocky weighs around 18-20 kg so would eat a little less anyway. We used to give Rocky the dentastixs but then discovered they were making him sick so we knocked them on the head, he now has a stag bar.

Been doing as much reading as possible to try and work out what to do to help Rosie since she's started getting worse this week, and it sounds like it's almost certainly over-arousal, everything sounds spot on, the signs and behaviour are spot on: teeth chattering, pacing, sneezing, rubbing her nose on the floor --> spinning around in circles, jumping on furniture --> barking and growling.  

Doesn't sound like it's awfully easy to sort but at least it's somewhere to start now that I know what the problem is!!

http://alexadry.hubpages.com/hub/Understanding-Dog-Arousal-Problems
http://paws4udogs.wordpress.com/2012/01/06/too-much-of-a-good-thing/
http://www.dogbehaviorblog.com/2008/09/know-the-signs-of-over-arousal.html

You mentioned above that she is spinning around, does she chase her tail ? This can lead to serious behavioural problems and much be discouraged asap. Try to distract her with a toy as soon as she starts to do this. Keep rewarding the good behaviour and ignore the bad.

I may have missed it but how much exercise is she getting? Should be 3 walks a day of 45 minutes apiece. If you follow this and get on a schedule it should be okay

Kathy wrote:You mentioned above that she is spinning around, does she chase her tail ? This can lead to serious behavioural problems and much be discouraged asap. Try to distract her with a toy as soon as she starts to do this. Keep rewarding the good behaviour and ignore the bad.

Yes she does chase her tail, she just started doing that on Monday.  I was ignoring it but as of yesterday I've started trying to distract her away from the behaviour which seems to be helping, just saying her name or saying "no" firmly but calmly seems to stop it at the moment.  At least until around 15-16:00 anyways, that's when she starts going uber crazy and won't listen to anything and just keeps barking at my ignoring her.  I know it's gonna take consistence and time though so even though it's really been stressing me out I know it's still early days.

JStaff wrote:I may have missed it but how much exercise is she getting?  Should be 3 walks a day of 45 minutes apiece.  If you follow this and get on a schedule it should be okay

She has 4 walks a day, usually 20 mins-ish around 7:30, 40-60 mins around 11:30, 40-60 mins around 15-15:30, and 20 mins-ish around 20:30, plus a mini walk just before bed for a pee.  She doesn't seem interested at all in toys or chews when she's on her own though, she's very much an attention seeker, so we're trying to play tug a few times a day as well, and I'd like to start doing more training with her but she just gets so excited and starts barking almost immediately, it's tough but I'll keep at it!

Hello! Sorry for the lack in reply - I've been working long hours. I thought that she may be white, there have been studies into coat pigment and behaviour, but just from working in the shelter I have picked up on specific behavioural problems in dogs of specific colours, not that any of this matters or can change her behaviour, was just intrigued

So, I think you're right in saying that she's overstimulated - and I can totally understand why you're concerned but I don't think that you need to be, for now. 7 days in a whole new environment with LOTS of smells, sounds, sights, and boundaries to push is no time at all compared to roughly 270 days in a very boring, tiny space with minimal exercise and stimulation. If her predisposition is to be a little scatty and hectic anyway, this is obviously going to present itself 10 fold as you have experienced.

Have you got any experience with clicker training? I think this may be useful for Rosie if she is overstimulated by touch/verbal praise/toys. The reward is the click, you could add some small training treats to add to the reward if she copes okay with that. In regards to the negative behaviours that she is portraying, I think a crate would really help you so that she has a "calm space" to settle when she can't control her behaviour. If you have no space for a crate, how about a wall hook with a lead attached and a bed for her to settle in, given the down-stay command to stay in place (this won't work if she is likely to try to run and pull the hook out of the wall!)

4 walks a day is GREAT in any usual circumstances, but again, in Rosie's case that may just be hyping her up further. I would recommend a usual 20 minute walk in the morning, followed by some down time (maybe with a stuffed kong or bone to keep her occupied) followed by a structured play walk with toys, she will need to know some strong commands for this so that she is leaving and waiting patiently during play. Instead of a further walk later in the afternoon how about a training session in the garden with the clicker? This will get her brain engaged and tire her out mentally and also teach her some commands which will help with further control - you could teach sits, stays, downs etc all the way to loose lead walking, impulse control and "focus" in the garden. The later 20 minute walk could be upped to 30 minutes in which you could practise the taught commands. It sounds like Rosie will need lots of structure and routine for the time being, and lots of training! But once that's all under control and you are directing her energy in a positive way i'd imagine she will be doing anything to work for reward.

In regards to the tail chasing, I wouldn't say her name to stop her - give her a clear command, no or stop, followed by an alternative distraction that she can do. Interactive toys would be great for you.

Rachel33 wrote:Hello! Sorry for the lack in reply - I've been working long hours. I thought that she may be white, there have been studies into coat pigment and behaviour, but just from working in the shelter I have picked up on specific behavioural problems in dogs of specific colours, not that any of this matters or can change her behaviour, was just intrigued

That's interesting. Round where we live there has been a cat family for around 30 years, all white and all really and I mean really aggressive.

Hi Loops! We have some similar issues with Ped although not on the same scale and he has really calmed down these last few weeks. We have had him since July and I think it has just been getting into a routine that has helped him. It just suddenly clicked with him and he has calmed so much - he still has his naughty mad moments but they are much rarer. He is very attention seeking and sometimes if he thinks we should be paying him attention, he will bark at us, jump up, mouthing etc - we just leave him and walk away and give him a time out. Seems to be working! With regards to toys that she can't destroy - we have found the solid rubber balls from Wilkos the best! He has managed to chew one, but his other two are still completely whole and he doesn't really sit and fixate on chewing them (like he did with the "indestructible" rubber bone and the "indestructible" rope and all of the other toys which lasted a day!)

Good luck with it - she is a lovely looking dog

Rachel33 wrote:Have you got any experience with clicker training? I think this may be useful for Rosie if she is overstimulated by touch/verbal praise/toys. The reward is the click, you could add some small training treats to add to the reward if she copes okay with that. In regards to the negative behaviours that she is portraying, I think a crate would really help you so that she has a "calm space" to settle when she can't control her behaviour. If you have no space for a crate, how about a wall hook with a lead attached and a bed for her to settle in, given the down-stay command to stay in place (this won't work if she is likely to try to run and pull the hook out of the wall!)

Thanks Rachel for all the great advice :-)  She defo seems to have improved a bit this last week, so I'm hopeful that she'll keep improving as she gets used to the situation and our routine! Currently when she's being naughty/over-excited we usually send her to her bed or blanket to calm down which seeeeems to be working at the mo, but it's still early days I guess, we're only just up to 2 weeks I guess. 

I've just bought a clicker so I'll be starting clicker training today, I certainly think that will help as whilst she's very quick to learn she's very on and off as to when she'll actually listen so I think starting from scratch with a different method of training will help things!

I tried her with a kong yesterday (frozen with peanut butter and treats in), and she loved it but once it was empty she did go a little hyper and destroy it (until we took it away from her) as she tends to with any rubber type toys, still it kept her happy and occupied for a little while which is good as she has trouble with independent play.

Sophieb908 wrote:Hi Loops! We have some similar issues with Ped although not on the same scale and he has really calmed down these last few weeks. We have had him since July and I think it has just been getting into a routine that has helped him. It just suddenly clicked with him and he has calmed so much - he still has his naughty mad moments but they are much rarer. He is very attention seeking and sometimes if he thinks we should be paying him attention, he will bark at us, jump up, mouthing etc - we just leave him and walk away and give him a time out. Seems to be working! With regards to toys that she can't destroy - we have found the solid rubber balls from Wilkos the best! He has managed to chew one, but his other two are still completely whole and he doesn't really sit and fixate on chewing them (like he did with the "indestructible" rubber bone and the "indestructible" rope and all of the other toys which lasted a day!)

Good luck with it - she is a lovely looking dog

Thanks Sophie, it's good to hear from someone who has had similar issues but has all worked out for the best, Ped does sound very similar to our Rosie, she's a total attention seeker and there are some toys that totally set her off and turn her into destructor (like squeakies, and rope!).  Thankfully the barking is getting a lot less prevalent, though she is still mouthing now and again, and still lots of tail chasing I'm having to catch, but she seems to be handling it a little better now by chewing on her deer antler when she gets frustrated/excited!!