bringing our X into the uk, appriciate any advice

HELLO!
about a year ago i posted here and got tons of help (thank you!)
now i'm posting again since maybe some things changed, maybe people have more experience..

SO -
nina (human), georgia (dog) and myself will be coming to the uk from israel. we have all papers in order, and all papers state breed as "staffy x"  - which is ok and legal in the uk!

still, last time i checked about the subject, i understood that coming directly into the uk via air, will have georgia go throw a vet examination and lots of checkups upon arrival, and then the people involved in that process might say "oh this looks like a pit bull type, lets call the cops", even if the papers are in order (AM I WRONG?) but if we come via ferry or drive over, there is only a quick check of papers by a clerk which should be much safer.

so i dont ask for anything illegal , since this is staffy x as stated on all papers, but still i look for the safest route as i'd hate having to go back to israel.

any advice?

for now what sounds best is to fly into holland (would go to french, where i also have family, but they might make problems with crosses...) and then come to the uk with a ferry... - if i'm wrong about everything and shouldn't have a problem even just flying georgia in,would love to know! also , maybe some of you know pet-travel/moving agents ? such people might have more experience and some connections, i don't mind paying for some peace of mind

THANK YOU!  

Hi

I don't really have any clue about this but you could try contacting DDA watch. They help people whose dogs have been seized under Breed Specific Legislation so they may be able to advise you about where you would stand regarding the fact your papers say staffy x if someone said she looked 'of type'.

Their website is www.ddawatch.co.uk

I'm really not sure, I hope you can get something sorted though x

Try looking at the link below, it might give some guidance. If not, see if there is a contact us or something on the site.

https://www.gov.uk/pet-travel-quarantine

Thanks everybody!
the gov.uk site doesn't have the information but i did contact them with the same question and waiting for an answer, - and also going to write to DDA-WATCH right now, hoping they have experience with this

will update here

I hope you get a reply to your questions from the DDA, sorry I cannot be of any real help

Hi, welcome back. I can only say from my experience. We took Debo on holiday to Poland from UK. On his passport it says Staffordshire bull terrier but he's not pure Staffy ( has no papers ). From the medical side this will tell you what has to be done https://www.gov.uk/take-pet-abroad. We travel by eurotunel from France to UK and as soon as we left the train we've been asked to go to the exam room, so they could check all the papers. They always do. They didn't ask for pedigree papers. But it was us, so don't want to say it's like that every time. Maybe it was easier because Debo is from UK and his passport was issued in UK. I don't know. We are gonna go throw it again in August. Good luck to you, keep us up dated.

heya jola
i hear that when coming with a car on a ferry they check you when you board and not when you leave so this is already good to know about the train, when you got to the exam room did they show any interest in the dog too much? or more checking that your papers are in order?

thanks

Hi
It was about 2 years ago so I don't remember if it was before or after leaving the train. They didn'y pay much attention to the dog, they just check the papers and microchip and we were free to go.

Thanks!

now waiting for an answer from DDAWATCH plus the gov.uk people (but i don't expect much help from them) and then i'll let everyone here know whats up

Hi Nishma

You might want to give JCS livestock a call at Heathrow.. They know everything and will give you the proper advice.
T: +44(0)1753682244
They will also see to your dog's clearance through customs.   

oh! thanks , i'll call tomorrow morning !

partial update:

spoke with JCS who gave me the number of HARC - (Heathrow Animal Reception Centre) who are the ones actually dealing directly with animals coming in to uk (via Heathrow), so spoke with them and they did say

1. papers don't really matter - it's up to them based on how the dog looks to them

2. if they do decide that this is a pit bull type - it's still not final, they call a superior who also need to give his opinion and decide.

3. if the in the end they do say this is pit bull type there is always the option to ship the dog back (i was worried they take them away...)

as for my personal case, they said to email some photos and they'll give their opinion so now i'm waiting on this, but looks like (unless they'll say "this is FOR SURE pit bull") that i'll try my luck, and if all fails, i'll send her back

well so far bad news, Heathrow Animal Reception Centre say not to try bringing her at all. still checking with them further because it's never really final...

nishma wrote:well so far bad news, Heathrow Animal Reception Centre say not to try bringing her at all. still checking with them further because it's never really final...

Oh no. Did they say why?

they asked for more photos - top view, side view and front view, we sent them along with measurements and they answered back:

"I have had a reply from the Dangerous dog unit and they have advise that you do not bring your dog into the country.

I am very sorry to be the person with bad news."

they are very nice, but just not enough :p

but since this is in the end up to the people who see the dog at the entrance to the UK we're gonna come with her via ferry where as i understand they are less strict, our papers are in order so we hope for a smooth sailing (zing!)

he does look like an type to me

Wow she's gorgeous (but I would say that, she looks so similar to my Vinny!). What is she crossed with or is she recognised as something else in Israel? Over here my boy is recognised as an Amstaff. I don't think I could ever risk our babies being sent back/taken away.

I don't want to sound horrible and I would hate to have to make the choice to leave my dog behind but:

as Steve has said she does look 'of type' and whereas I am a firm believer of deed not breed not everyone is.

Even if you get her into the country there is the risk of the police still seizing her - you only have to read the news to see some police forces are really going all out on seizing dogs they think are dangerous.

Your dog could be the best behaved in the world but she would have to stay in police kennels for a long time whilst they assessed her and could sort out an exemption.

Whatever you decide I really hope it works out well for you and Georgia

we did see people walking dogs in london looking very similar to ours and i see pictures here of people with similar looking dogs, are your dogs exempt ? such people as we've seen around london are either exempt or are taking a risk you think?

i just wonder..
*frustrated*

They could be exempt or unaware that their baby is 'type' BSL is very strict here and although people have said the ferry border staff never looked at their dog properly it's a chance I personally wouldn't take, I won't even walk Darcy in Liverpool because merseyside police are seizing dogs all the time she's a SBT and she looks nothing like type either but I'm taking no chances.

If a dog has been exempted it has to be tattooed and wear a muzzle at all times in public or some dogs can be returned as they are deemed as 'not of type'.

My current foster George is a very big staffy and I've had a couple of other big staffies and I always worry when the police drive past us.

I'm not saying if Georgia is allowed into the country she will be seized at some point but just want you to be aware of the possibility.

Thanks

_Hayley_ - how do you walk with Darcy then? (is it her in your profile pic?) or do you not live at liverpool and just pointed it out specially because of the merseyside police? i did hear about them :S

current plan (changing every minute) is to leave her with a friend for a month, get to know the area where we'll live, and then consider our options, if to bring her, or to go back

nishma wrote:Thanks

_Hayley_ - how do you walk with Darcy then? (is it her in your profile pic?) or do you not live at liverpool and just pointed it out specially because of the merseyside police? i did hear about them :S

I live just outside Liverpool, so have lots of places to walk but they have so many beautiful parks but I daren't walk her in them, not that she looks 'type' in any way shape or form but neither have lots of the seized dogs

nishma wrote:they asked for more photos - top view, side view and front view, we sent them along with measurements and they answered back:

"I have had a reply from the Dangerous dog unit and they have advise that you do not bring your dog into the country.

I am very sorry to be the person with bad news."

they are very nice, but just not enough :p

but since this is in the end up to the people who see the dog at the entrance to the UK we're gonna come with her via ferry where as i understand they are less strict, our papers are in order so we hope for a  smooth sailing (zing!)

Very sad news to hear this

Like some have already mentioned, because she has been deemed "the type", you really do have to be careful now as you don't want her to seized after all this.

Good morning all!

I have found this enforcers guide: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/69263/dogs-guide-enforcers.pdf
where at annex 2 (page 14) they list how to identify a pit bull type dog, our Georgia answers only 3 items of a 15 items list there! so it calms me down a lot, but i'm also trying to contact lawyers who have experience in the field and get their opinion

Hello everybody!

final update:
we talked with HARC (heathrow animal reception) who referred us to the police, who said on entry our dog will be taken and if a court decides not to add her to the IED she will be destroyed.

we also talked with "deed-not-breed" who were very very helpful, nice and patient. they also said it's best to get in touch with the police who can sometimes recommend to court to add the dog to the IED and then it's not really a problem

also talked with Trevor Cooper (www.doglaw.co.uk) who said, first, that we would be turned back and not be able to bring her in. i asked if we could not on entry ask to go to court, he said no - but i think he's mistaken about this since i did get such statement from the police, that we can go to court in such a case.
he also said - that if we do get to court (say we even get in smoothly and someday a police man stops us on the street) - if the dog hasn't bitten or attacked anyone ever, and we are decent people, we shouldnt even worry about it, and the dog will be added to IED without any problems. thats good to know and he is , as i understand, very experienced.

i also tried DDA Watch, couldn't get a hold of them actually

but after all, we've decided we rather not take any chances at all, plus get an easier-simpler move, so after some research and thought , we've changed our plans from moving to London - to moving to Amsterdam!

thanks everybody for all the help and references here
i hope this could help someone in the future who will come by this thread.

Thanks for the update. It is such a shame that this has turned into a huge issue for you but better safe than sorry. I'm sure there's lots in your thread that will help others in the future.

Hope the move to Amsterdam goes well, London's loss. Do let us know how the move goes.