I'm a dog walker. Just started walking a staffy. A bit unsure about it.

My name is Jamie and I've been dog walking for about 4 years.  On Friday I started taking a Tan 4 year old female Staffy on group walks.  I dont have much experience with staffy's.  Owner told me she friendly and when I met her she was very calm and relaxed.  On walk she was bonkers running as fast as she could, turning round and then running back again as fast as she could - which is all good and fine.  What concerned me a bit is that she would run at the dogs as fast as she could and then just miss them.  She was very direct with the others and looked like she was wanting to rumble, she got a few 'sod offs' and nearly got into two fights in that one walk.  

I don't want to be prejudice so will take her out again (which is a week on Monday) and bring camera and record her behavior.  I'm hoping you'll be able let me know if behaviour is normal Staffy behaviour or if I should let go as you all know the breed very well.

Jamie

Hey Jamie you just explained a Staffie being a Staffie lol. They play very very rough it's something that may seem a little unsettling if you don't know the breed. One thing I would say is be very careful with how much freedom you give her when playing in my experience it's not a good idea to let staffies just "get in with it" they do need to be watched because as you found out not all other dogs appreciate the Staffie way of playing. For example I never let my boy off the lead with dogs I don't know or he does not know because if he gets too rough and the other dog tells him off it will end up in a fight so I don't take the risk. With dogs he does know I let him play bit I intervene if I see signs of him bullying or dominating the other dog or if I can see he's getting over excited.

I hope that helps but the answer is yes the behaviour you described is normal Staffie play and they do get rough and very very excited . But they are a wonderful happy breed and I love watching them play in the way only staffies can!

It is Normal, my Male will do it. its almost like a flypast and see how close he can get. To me it seems like he is trying to goad the other dog into chasing him. I have no idea why but he loves being chased   

Also Play for a staffy can be very rough and tumble with lots of noise.  They match up well with other breeds that like a bit of phsyical contact at playtime.
Will be intresting to see the vids.

Brill thanks for your replies. I'll be walking her again next Monday so will post a highlight video for your opinions. Thanks again.

Are you keeping her on some kind of lead while out on walks ?, some other dog walkers may not appreciate her just running up to their dogs.

I've been walking her with other dogs at places where there's no one else.

Just keep a close eye on her and be responsible with her and you will be fine

Jamie

Don't get into playing chicken with a Staffie, you will loose!

Mine does it when he runs back to me, all Staffies are 4 wheel drive, get up to maximum speed and see how close I can get to his legs without crashing. The bit that hurts is if you flinch at the last minute, Staffie brakes are not always 100%.

As a walker for a rescue I will offer the following. If you don't feel you can 100% trust the dog with other dogs then avoid confrontation and keep control using a lead. That said it doesn't always work as I had a very bad experience this morning with one of our rescue Staffie Crosses, walking up the lane and one of the farm Collies who was off roaming free ran at Maisie who I was walking and grabed her by the muzzle. Maisie quite naturally retaliated and I dont blame her but I had a hell of a job seperating them and there was a huge amount of blood mixed with drool.

I think Maisie is OK cause I cleaned her up when we got back to the rescue but my nerves are in pieces. Trying to get a Staffie to let go is not somthing you want to have to do.

Regards

Simon & The Tedster

Definitely sounds normal!

Sounds normal. As Nathan said they do love to be chased and this is their way of trying to goad other Dogs into chasing them\playing.

You usually find its the other dog owners that are unsettled by this rather than the other dogs.

Is it anything like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzbWYAn7ecU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFr3ooZQ6CQ

Yes. Very, very similar to those vids, just longer runs. Imagine a group of dog around me and staffy running as close them as poss and you got it.

  they're so funny! Biscuit is very calm in the home, but can be wild on walks. She may settle a bit but Biscuit is 5/6 and still likes to zoom around. She does this when out with my friend's lab and collie too and just skims them, they've learnt to ignore her and the collie will tell her off. Just keep an eye on play and make sure it doesn't go "over threshold" as this is where a fight will break out. Could you maybe walk her with a "better" suited group for her activity level/personality? Has she ever walked in group before?

Sounds just like staffies   

Cant add anymore, agree with all thats been said. Pixee hates dogs running up to her by suprise, and I hate owners that let their dogs come running over to Pixee.

Rachel, Biscults running has me pmsl. I call this the rabbit run, bums under them sometimes. Only last night, I had a crazy Pixee doing the rabbit run from lounge, to dining room, to kitchen and back and round and back, I nearly ended up wetting myself.

If the dog is basically playful, but just a bit rough, then the key situation to worry about is if one of the other dogs decides to be aggressive. In this case, the staffy may defend herself - perfectly understandably - and fight back. Simon in Wales makes reference to this kind of problem. The staffy may have a more powerful bite than her aggressor. The other dog, though it may have started the scrap, it can come off worse. Dogs dont look in mirrors and evaluate whether they have the assets to win.  They just square up and go for it, sometimes causing David and Goliath situations to develop. However, unlike the story in the bible, the David figure rarely wins in this case.

So that would be a very regrettable situation. One that would not be the staffy's fault, but one in which she would surely get the blame - and that could be very bad for her. So with my own dog in this situation, I would be really careful and not let him get into any trouble. I am currently considering taking him out with other dogs on group walks, as I know he would find it fun and the extra socialisation would be good for him. However, especially to start with, while I'm evaluating everyone's behaviour, he will be wearing a muzzle. Unfortunately, others may think that makes him look like a mad, bad, dangerous dog. However, I know he's not - it's to protect him just as much as it is to protect the feisty yapper who bites off more than it can chew.

yeahbut wrote: So with my own dog in this situation, I would be really careful and not let him get into any trouble. I am currently considering taking him out with other dogs on group walks, as I know he would find it fun and the extra socialisation would be good for him. However, especially to start with, while I'm evaluating everyone's behaviour, he will be wearing a muzzle. Unfortunately, others may think that makes him look like a mad, bad, dangerous dog. However, I know he's not - it's to protect him just as much as it is to protect the feisty yapper who bites off more than it can chew.

Is your dog DA? then fair enough, but if your dog is not DA, why muzzle him, totally unfair on him, and he wont able to defend himself either. The only time to muzzle a dog is when its really totally 100% needed.

Staffy lover wrote:Rachel, Biscults running has me pmsl.  I call this the rabbit run, bums under them sometimes.  Only last night, I had a crazy Pixee doing the rabbit run from lounge, to dining room, to kitchen and back and round and back, I nearly ended up wetting myself.

Ah it's hilarious isn't it! Biscuit does it when my OH gets home from work, she tries to do it up and down the stairs but usually ends up tumbling down    

Rachel33 wrote:

Staffy lover wrote:Rachel, Biscults running has me pmsl.  I call this the rabbit run, bums under them sometimes.  Only last night, I had a crazy Pixee doing the rabbit run from lounge, to dining room, to kitchen and back and round and back, I nearly ended up wetting myself.

Ah it's hilarious isn't it! :DBiscuit does it when my OH gets home from work, she tries to do it up and down the stairs but usually ends up tumbling down    

   Aw bless Biscuit. We have so many stairs in our house, Pixee has learned not to tumbling down them     

Staffy lover wrote:Is your dog DA?  then fair enough, but if your dog is not DA, why muzzle him, totally unfair on him, and he wont able to defend himself either.  

As I tried to explain (though obviously not clearly enough) this situation is not about one's own dog being DA. It is about the other dog being DA and one's own dog acting in self-defence - exactly the situation you describe. If the staffy, acting in self-defence, has much more powerful jaws than the aggressor, then the scrap may be unequal and the aggressor can really get hurt. Which is a thing to be avoided, yes? It would be a pity for another dog to be hurt. Even though it would be the other dog's 'fault' (ie for being aggressive and starting it), there would probably be little sympathy for that view from the other owner, any bystanders, or, if it gets that far, to dog wardens or the police.

Staffy lover wrote:The only time to muzzle a dog is when its really totally 100% needed.  

As far as I'm aware, apart from death and taxes, there are very few things in life that achieve certainty with that kind of percentage. Most of the time we're calculating best decisions on the fly, using whatever fuzzy logic is available. I'm not advocating muzzling, but it can be one of the (lesser-used) tools in the box. I'm careful with my own dog, whose body language I can read fluently, but I would be extra careful with someone else's (mindful that this thread was started by a dog walker, not an owner).

Hello mug a tea

I think it is great that you've bothered to come on here to get tips


I know several dog walkers who walk all sorts, incl staffies, no problem

The wizzing past thing - salukis ad greyhounds do it too a lot, it's just that staffies are a little less fast and a lot less graceful. Mine also used to barge past me all the time which was very annoying. Staffies are very eager to please so if you say no and are firm it will start having an impact

How is it going?

Staffies also love love love people so your newly staffy will be extra excited because she is seeing you

It is quite difficult for staffies to have impulse control and you may what to spend a few walks with the staffy on the lead. Also, she will really want to know that you are the boss and are calling the shots

Is she very ball orientated?

Hi folks, thanks for all your posts and advice.  OK, vids on iphone were rubbish so I dont have any.  Yesterday was her second walk and also in the group was a young playful golden retriever and they spent the time playing together.  So I'm thinking the charging last week was her trying to get the others to play and yesterday she found a dog to do that with as there was no charging at all.  I had her again today, this time with same young golden retriever and also a young dalmation who is best friends with golden retriever.  Both young dogs are 11 months and staffy about 4 years.  Dalmation also in season at mo.

So staffy loved the dalmation and completely ignored the GR that she played with yesterday.  No problems, no fights or nothing.  But I do have to get used to how she plays compared to how I'm used to seeing dogs play.  The two young dogs like to play fight and run and chase, one will lie down to incite the other to jump on top etc.  Staffy play seems a bit different almost like mock dog fighting, mock throat grabs, mock stomach grabs etc, kinda like watching a pro boxer sparring.  Also staffy likes to make contact with her mouth, although very light with contact.  When chasing she will mouth (I dont want to say nip as that might be too strong) but did catch GR yesterday which pissed off the young dog.  I'm sure all this is normal staffy behaviour but I will need to get used to this more direct form of play.

Staffy also seems, its hard to say, but a bit domineering?  Is that right word?  She would run with dalmation but would also block her path so if I called dalmation it was almost impossible for her to get to me cause staffy would block her way and stop her cause she still wanted to play.  It's good dalmation is confidant or I'd be worried that she might get threatened by by having her movements controlled but I dont know enough to know if staffy was trying to control movements or just wanting to keep playing.  Dalmation and Golden retriever are best friends but staffy would come in and well, not exactly break them up but cause she is so direct she would push golden retriever out the way.  She seems a nice friendly dog and I was quite happy for her to be in group, but she is direct although has shown no aggression and just very keen to play.  

Now tomorrow I'll be bringing my own dog.  My own dog is a collie cross but my group sizes for last two days have been quite big so I left her at home on those walks.  She can be quite feisty but a good girl but I think she will respond to staffy's behavior so they will have to work out boundries between themselves.  My own dog has always been top dog on that walk so hopefully just a sod off or two and no fights.

Jamie

A pic from yesterday

I thought it was you, we spoke on your website a while back whilst I was thinking of setting up a dog walking business

Anyway, I digress! Does sound like normal staffie play, they're odd little creatures and don't always have many boundaries in play :DI fostered a 18 month old boy for a few months with my girly and they sounded like they were killing each other in play; lots of throat grabs and little nips when running/chasing as you mentioned, then they'd curl up and go to sleep together. He would back down to her though, she's had a few little scraps with dogs that have told her to bugger off, so would be something to monitor. Typical forward terrier's with the strength of a bulldog... some dogs really don't enjoy this.

I've found Biscuit plays best with labradors and other staffies. My friend's collie will tell her off and they've had "words" but she has lots of respect for him, as opposed to the lab who just lets her do whatever and she gets bored of after a while! She's surprisingly gentle with the Chihuahua and Yorkshire Terrier that she's played with in the home, though will bowl them over if off lead around them on walks   

Love the photo

Loving that photo! captures so much of what Staffies are!

thanks!

Well, I'm happy with how she's doing, its just  a case of becoming familiar with the others in the pack.

Thanks again.

Great shot there, hope it all goes well for you, please keep us up dated.

My dog plays differently with different dogs.

He has a Collie friend and they spend hours either chasing and dropping a football for each other or pulling either end of a stick.

I like playing games where I am (surprise!) the centre of attention: that means ball games or games where the dogs have to sit and settle down before they get a treat. Boomer ball is also good for interactive play between two dogs (in my experience anyway.) I also find - again in my limited experience - that I make it clear to the more hyper dog that he or she can't initiate hyper play whenever he or she feels like it.

Finally - I'm really sorry this is so long - but this was one of the best bits of dog training advice I have ever read and it has helped me so much. It is from (Dr) Ian Dunbar who was one of the pioneers of the positive dog training movement, apparently.

It's called Jazz Up and Settle Down and basically means you train your dog to get hyper on cue but also to settle down and behave on cue. I know you are walking a million dogs and are not training them but I found that giving my dog the permission to go hyper, when I want him to go hyper, rather than trying to stamp hyperness out of him means we are both happy. Staffies do have energy to burn.

Anyway...

Jazz Up and Settle Down
Many owners experience great difficulty and frustration trying to get their adolescent dogs to settle down. Many dogs bark and bounce like crazy when the front doorbell rings. Dogs perform moon loops just because the owner says, “Walkies,” or picks up the dog’s leash. And on walks, some dogs literally explode with activity and uncontrollable enthusiasm at the mere prospect of meeting a person, another dog, a squirrel, or a leaf.
Many owners ignore their dogs when they are calm and well behaved and only attempt to control the dog’s behavior when he is really out of control. Obviously, this is a most challenging way to train. And it isn’t going to work that well. First, owners should practice settling down their dogs in easier scenarios — when the dog is less excited, or even when the dog perfectly calm and relaxed. For example, while your dog is snoozing on his bed, ask him to join you to settle down on the couch. Your dog would be only willing to obey. Then owners should settle down the dog in more distracting settings. For example, when walking your dog, ask him to settle down every 25 yards and by the end of just one walk, you’ll have a very different dog — much more attentive and biddable. Finally though, owners must “confront the beast “and learn how to teach Mr. Hyperdog to settle down quickly and willingly, anytime and anywhere. This is one of the first adolescent exercises that we teach at SIRIUS® Dog Training, because this is precisely what owners have come to learn. In many adult dog training classes, dogs are never allowed to bark and bounce or express their enthusiasm and so, owners can never learn how to settle down their dogs when they are excited. Obviously, we have to allow dogs to bark and bounce in order to practice teaching them to settle down and shush. However, rather than let the dogs be rambunctious at will, we teach the dog’s to be rambunctious on cue.
Interestingly, as soon as we instruct owners to jolly up their dogs and get them to vocalize and jump in the air, most dogs simply stand and stare and observe their owners with some considerable curiosity. This is a classic example of Murphy’s First Law of Dog Training: When trying to teach a particular behavior, usually the opposite happens. With a little encouragement though, most owners quickly learn to teach their dogs to jazz up on cue, whereupon the owners may now, at their convenience, repeatedly practice teaching their dogs to settle down on cue. The jazz-up-and-settle-down sequence is repeated until every owner can get their dog to settle down and shush within three seconds.
Once the owner has taught their dog to perform a “problem” behavior on cue, the behavior is no longer a problem that works against training, instead the activity may now be used as reward to reinforce training. For example, after a lengthy period of settle-and-shush, you may instruct your dog to bounce, circle, bark, rollover, or tug as a reward. After walking calmly on leash, you may instruct your dog to pull as a reward. (Especially useful when going uphill.)
An additional benefit of having activity problems on cue is that you may now instruct your dog to let off steam when the time is convenient. For example, I would always instruct my Malamute to stick his head out of the sunroof and howl whenever we were stuck in commuter traffic on the San Francisco Bay Bridge. In fact, once, during an especially lengthy traffic jam, a BMW driver followed suit and howled back!

Ps - you should be a professional photographer.

I find that the best play goals for my staffy are lurchers. The number of times I met a lurcher owner who's said I keep her/him on a lead cos they're too full on for other dogs in their play. Then its takes about 10 seconds of seeing them play with Clover and you can see it in their faces, at last a dog mine can play with.

Kingethelbert if you ever walk a staffy just reassure the owner from a distance introduce the two dogs and you'll be good to go people are a bit prejudiced whwn it comes to staffies sometimes

Mia, I trying to explain that other breeds also have image problems, lurchers in particular, and the lurcher owners I meet are happy that their dogs get a pal to play when they're used to most owners leading up and walking away.

I agree, so many people have pre conceived ideas of certain 'breeds'.

Staffords are by no means the only ones! 

Lurchers, bred by 'travellers' have a very unsavoury reputation & we can sympathise!