Dog aggression

Hi, haven't been on for a while, but since my last post the litter of puppies Bacchus sired ( only three as one pup didn't survive) have all found loving homes and at least 2 are hoping to be shown. Bacchus has however in the last couple of months become very dog aggressive and on one occassion, when I wasn't vigilant enough, attacked another dog which required veterinary attention and stitches. It was totally my fault. I saw a friend coming with his dog ( he's fine with dogs he knows ) so didn't put Bacchus back on the lead.  I didn't realise, because of the long grass, that my friend had his daughter's dog with him on a lead and as I say Bacchus attacked him.  A couple of weeks later the Dog Warden came to my door as the daughter had, quite rightly, reported the incident. I showed the Warden Bacchus's Puppy Foundation Certificate along with his Bronze and Silver Good Citizen Awards and explained that I was aware of his increasing aggression towards unfamiliar dogs and the fact that I keep him on-lead near other dogs but was caught off-guard in ths instance.  Having met Bacchus and been shown how affectionate and obedient he is, and the fact tht I could show her an appointment I had made with a dog behaviourist because of the attack, she accepted that I was not an irresponsible dog owner, and only issued me with a verbal warning rather than a Control Notice but explained that the incident was now a matter of record.  She also broached the subject of neutering, a road I'm reluctant to go down, as the evidence I've gleaned over the months on this forum would suggest that there is no guarantee that this would make a difference. I would appreciate the opinions of the experienced Staff owners on this forum especially those of you who have had similair issues.

Hi roger, it's not really something I gave experience of but I know others do so should be able to offer their thoughts. I do agree about the neutering though, there is little chance it would make a difference. Unfortunately some dogs do just become dog aggressive

I can only speak from my own (limited) experience and say that my own neutered male dog could easily have been the aggressive party in the incident you describe. He is two years old, going on three. I cannot say what he would have been like if he had not been 'done' (the SSPCA carried out the procedure before I adopted him) but it certainly hasnt eradicated all dog aggression. It's possible it has made no difference. Like yourself, I consider it's my responsibility to control him and stop this happening - a protection to himself, to prevent him getting into trouble.

Whether or not neutering actually makes a difference may become moot in a case like this though. There are other people's perceptions to bear in mind - erroneous though they may be. In your position, I would probably think about how another little visit from the DW might go down, if there was any accidental repetition. If wardens or police believe that neutering is effective then it may be strategic to consider having him done so that you have a bargaining chip - to get one more chance for him, to keep the dog, to prevent the control order if possible. As a last resort. But obviously best to try and keep him close and pop him back on lead if any nonsense seems likely.

Hello Sorry to hear you're having problems, did you get to see the behaviourist in the end, if so, did they offer any advice? In regards to the aggression, Biscuit is fear aggressive (men and dogs) and I muzzle and exercise on a long line. You literally never know when a random dog is going to run into the situation, people can be so irresponsible, and I'd rather ensure that I'm covering all ends than end up with Biscuit in trouble. If we're on the moors or the middle of nowhere, I take the muzzle off, but she's still exercised on a 50ft line as she will chase and attack livestock and cats.

I'm in no way a behaviourist, i'm only just a trainer! So this information is only from speaking with professionals and working with dangerous dogs for the last few years. Neutering; in my line of work the majority of dogs are fixed due to waiting for adoption. I've witnessed 2 severe attacks and been attacked twice myself in 5 years, the 2 severe attacks were from unaltered males and resulted in one lady having both arms degloved, and the other having her arm snapped in half. The attacks on me were also from one unaltered male and one bitch that was very nervous in nature and spayed far too young. However, all dogs also came from abusive backgrounds with lack of exercise and socialisation. Lots of studies have looked into severe and fatal dog attacks and un-neutered dogs were responsible for 84.4% of the attacks, but again, background hasn't been noted.

Every professional that I have ever spoken to will recommend neutering for aggression that isn't through fear. BUT there are SO many reasons for aggression that ALL need to be taken into account. Most people think, "oh he's been neutered now, he won't be aggressive anymore" but that is so far from the truth. Neutering is of course going to make some difference to temperament, in the same way that people don't like neutering nervous dogs, it will of course take the edge off of more assertive dogs. But again there are lots of pros and cons for neutering from a health perspective. So ultimately, it's your choice.

As a general plan for aggression (again, as long as not nervous aggression) most professionals will recommend neutering alongside a management and training plan, it's almost like a supplement, it won't fix the problem but it can aid it in some way.

Can you tell what kind of aggression it is? How was he socialized when he was a pup? And what's his personality like in general?

We as a rule neuter our dogs and spay our females. My reasons are that I'm not a breeder and as we live in a multi breed household it is the sensible path for us. We only do this when our dogs hit the age where they are considered mature for their breeds.
Tip is never off lead as we live in a farming community and my neighbors are very trigger happy when it comes to dogs in their livestock (which is understandable). She is a bit dog aggresive so we always vigilent. We do a sit command when we meet other people and dogs as Tip gets super excited and hyper.

The choice to neuter is a personal preferance and in my boy Tim's case it did curb his dog aggresion but didn't completely remove it and we had to watch him. Even on his very last and final vet trip he tried challenging a bull mastiff.

In Samuel's case, he has never been aggresive but being the only boy in a household of all females it seem safer to have him neutered.

Harry has been done but he is the first dog I have ever had neutered although all bitches have been spayed. I
had to have Harry done because during an examination for something else the Vet found that Harry had rather
a large prostate for his young age and recommended it to avoid problems later. If anything I think for a while
it made his reaction to other dogs worse, but he suffered quite a lot of anxiety at the time anyway. Things
are much improved now though.

I just wondered whether you had considered 'chemical castration' as this would give you a some months
to decide whether it worked in lowering your boys aggression without the finality of an operation. You could then decide whether to go ahead or not, and it would make your decision easier.

Sorry I can't remember what the injection is called, or how many months it
lasts but your Vet would be able to advise you.

I cant help on the subject of aggression but a friend of ours tried the chemical castration on their spaniel he piled on the pounds in a matter of weeks. We hardly recognised him   

Post moved to Staffy Training & Behaviour

Thanks for the input guys. Bacchus's has his Puppy Foundation, Bronze Good Citizen and Silver Good Citizen and the behaviourist felt that this was "primary school" obedience and would like this taken to "GCSE" level. (like that's gonna happen). She also advised avoiding situations where he gets the opportunity to be aggressive so that it doesn't become a "learned" behaviour. She did give me some good tips on training and he is coming on.
Rachel, it's definitely not fear aggression, he is, and always has been, a very self confident little dog and very little fazes him.
Re socialisation, he was very heavily socialised as a pup in the hope that he would not become dog aggressive and to be fair he's fine with the dogs he grew up meeting, it tends to be unfamiliar dogs that are his problem.
He has a fantastic personality and is a total sweetheart. He has never been destructive, was a joy to toilet train, goes to his towel to have his feet cleaned after walks ( he even presents his feet for cleaning), as soon as I remove my outdoor shoes he runs and fetches my slippers, he adores meeting people, is very contented and well behaved around the house and to be honest,apart from the dog aggression, I can't fault him.

So what are the commands that he knows at the moment? (Sorry, don't know much about club obedience!) Do agree that it shouldn't become a learnt behaviour. Would you be happy to muzzle? Do you generally walk in heavily dog populated areas? I've asked the behaviourist that I work with and she would neuter and muzzle. She has a house full of bull breeds (11 in total, staffords, american bull dogs and various crosses) and works with dog aggression frequently. Bobby she has had for 8 years and he's never been able to mix with dogs, another territorial male stafford! Luckily she's got her own land to walk him on in peace.

Sounds a bit territorial doesn't it? At least he's okay with "family" though. Biscuit is horrendous with unknown dogs, we walk always on lead and in very quiet areas, and then socialize her carefully with friends dogs, because she really does enjoy their company. However, some dogs just don't enjoy other's company, your boy might be one of them! Biscuit still has to walk with a dog, on lead and parallel with no interaction 2/3 times before she's okay to have a sniff etc, and then it's like they've known each other for ever.

I really do understand the stress of unknown dogs on walks and how much it can effect your life as a dog owner. To be honest, i've just accepted it in Biscuit and manage it, keeping her safe. But fear is SO much easier to work with. I know of really great behaviourist but he's based in London, though you might be able to give him a call and have a chat. He keeps GSD's and Rottweilers but I've seen him work wonders with aggressive dogs. Not cheap though!

Hi again Rachel, I've pretty much accepted that if this is his only fault, and it pretty much is, I'll just have to live with it. As I say he is a total sweetheart and the most affectionate dog I've ever had and just loves meeting new people. I showed him back in November and didn't have any problems ( he took a second ). He's entered for another show in March so neutering is out of the question at the moment although I have been considering chemical castration. Our ringcraft classes start again next week so it will be interesting to see how he reacts. With regard to exercise, because I'm retired, I give him his main exercise ( min. 1 hour of very vigorous flirt pole and retrieve ) early afternoon in an area where I can see for about half a mile in all directions so can see any dogs in plenty of time and put him on a long lead. I continue to distract him with his flirt pole to distract him from the passing dog ( as recommended by the behaviourist ). He gets another 3 good walks as well as this. In light of the response to the pups he sired, it looks like he will be in demand for stud. I'll be guided in this by his breeder as she is very selective with regard to the bitches she would like him to cover. Thanks again for your input.

Hello! It sounds like the behaviourist has given you some good advice really, as long as you can keep him distracted! To be fair if he's on lead and an off lead dog approaches, you're not at fault, but I still muzzle Biscuit if dogs or men are around. My childhood staffie Jake was horrendous with other dogs until he was an old man, as were the rest of the litter, all but 2 were put to sleep for dog aggression and one unfortunately killed another dog.

I've only ever rescued, so don't know too much about showing but if it's something that you're interested in and requires him to be entire then that's all you can do really. I don't know too much about chemical castration. Would you continue to stud him despite the aggression problems? No problem at all, sorry I couldn't help more! But I do entirely empathise!

Hi again Rachel, as you say I'm being very careful when other dogs are around and hoping, though not with much confidence, that it might be raging hormones as he's 19 months now and it might settle down a bit. I showed him in November mainly to make up the numbers to support the club as we had a judge coming all the way from Wales and we wanted to ensure a decent turnout. I was however very pleasantly surprised by the compliments he received from the other exhibitors. One judge went so far as to say he was the best dog in the show but lost points because he hadn't been trained for showing ( he kept rolling on his back to have his tummy rubbed when the vet tried to check him ). I don't know if I really want to get into showing in a serious way but if the ringcraft classes work out I'll put him in for our local SBT show in March. I'm a bit worried about the muzzling question as it would leave him defenceless should another dog attack him, which happened a couple of times, albeit not too serious, when he was much younger.