stalking other dogs?

When calvin sees another dog wether he is on or off lead he always stops then crouches and approaches the other dog like a lion stalking prey. he has his tail low, crouched position head low, ears up. sometimes when he gets close he goes right down onto his belly and sometimes even crawls. when they actually meet they sniff and then he usually play bows. I thought this was him being submissive but some other dog walkers today said its a bad sign and he is being aggressive? I have no worries about him attacking other dogs as so far he has just wanted to play with everyone he meets,  but I do worry about him being attacked as even if another dog snaps at him he still tries to play with them and I have to catch hold of him. When we first got him he didn't approach dogs like this, he used to approach upright with ears up and waggly tail, he has started doing it since he got bitten by another dog that did not want to play with him. Is this an aggressive behaviour that I need to stop? If so how do I teach him not to do it?

This is something that Rocky does too, we get him to sit by using the "Watch Me" command which is helping. This is not necessarily aggresive behaviour but can mean that the dog does not know what is going to happen next (how the other dog will behave).

My mums collies do this, I just thought it was their herding instinct

Bane has started to do this too lately...but mainly with bigger dogs, so we thought it must be some kind of submissive thing.
We met another dog the other day who did it back (so funny to watch as they crawled to eachother) and the owner said he was told what Kathy said above; it's a stance they take to make them ready for any reaction.
I always hear mixed things but I guess it's down to the fine details like what the ears, tail etc are doing as to what it means.

Biscuit stalks... she's fear aggressive with other dogs and will lie on the floor, ears forward and staring at other dogs until they go away or approach. She's completely still and body language is extremely tense. As others have said, it allows for any reaction. She's protecting her delicate tummy area, and ready to pounce if the dog acts aversively with her. If she dog runs the other way she will rise up and chase. If they approach she has been known to wet herself and then snap, or allow a sniff and the go into a barking/lunging frenzy. She also has a crazily high prey drive so I think this is part of it also. As Biscuit's fear is so severe, she shuts down and cannot be distracted, move or take food lures at this point. I generally just have to stand in front of her and deal with the other dog so that she doesn't feel like she has to defend herself. And have at times had to carry her to the side of the track once the dog has gone until she recovers, though she will then be on edge for the remainder of the walk.

I certainly wouldn't encourage this behaviour, it does sound partly submissive with the crawling but the fear can easily go the wrong way. You've already said that you try to control him as he doesn't read other dogs well, continue you with this and as Kathy has said ask for an alternate command such as a sit, stand or sit/watch me when he goes into this stance using a high reward treat such as cheese or liver. Best thing would be to keep him moving to resolve the tension, staying still will make it worse! If I catch Biscuit early enough I talk to her in a silly sing song voice and half jog with her to get her out in the situation before the behaviour takes over. And of course only allow him to mix with dogs that the owners have given permission and are sociable and friendly

That's interesting. Axl will do this when approaching dogs, he will get down low, I can't remember what his ears do but I have a feeling they may be back and he walks very very slowly, somtimes he stops and lays down. I thought it was just one of his silly ways but now i'm a bit worried. I don't think he's fear aggressive, (he doesn't snap or bark or snarl at passing dogs). He has been attacked twice and I didn't think it had effected him but maybe it has?

As long as his body language is relaxed and he's not lunging or snapping I wouldn't worry too much. But yeah may have made him a little unsure. Really try not to worry though as he will pick up on it x

Thanks guys for all your advise. I will cut up some cheese for todays long walk and see if I can get him to sit next time he does it. He doesn't snap, snarl, growl or make any other noise when hes doing it. He doesn't lunge at any other dogs, he hasn't wet himself when he gets close to the dogs. I have never let him meet with dogs unless the owner has said it is ok, though he has had a lot of off lead ones come up to him. he has played off lead with dogs when their owners have asked if its ok to let him off. I normally let him off lead in an enclosed quiet area which has 3 gated entrances, I have always managed to spot approaching walkers and their dogs before he does and get him back on lead, but I have also been told that putting his lead on everytime a dog comes near is a really bad thing to do and I will cause him to become aggressive by doing it. Im looking into dog training because I want to nip it in the bud, however the lessons are very expensive so I need to save up abit first. I guess I shouldn't allow him off the lead again till after he has been to dog lessons?

Don't take what I've said about bis as gospel lovely, she's a very mixed up character bless her lol!! Definitely don't stop his interactions with other dogs, if he's shown no adverse behaviour other than the lying down just carry on as usual but encourage him to stand or sit when dogs approach you don't necessarily need a trainer.. They generally just teach obedience.. You'd be looking more for a behaviourist which I'm not sure that he needs? Patricia McConnell is a fantastic canine behaviour writer.. "The other end of the leash" and "For the love of dogs" both taught me so much! Give them a read if you like

Also taking him away from other dogs approaching may cause a bad reaction but put him on lead and asking him for a sit would just teach good manners IMO! if other dogs are jumping all over him on lead however it may cause a negative reaction if he feels restricted. If his behaviour is positive and he doesn't go running up to other dogs you don't HAVE to put him on lead when dogs approach

Thanks Rachel. He is my first dog and I am abit worried about turning a sweet little dog into one with multiple problems due to my incompetence. I just want to do whats best for him especially as hes not had the best start in life. I doubt he was socialised very much in the past due to being in kennels for over a quarter of his life and a stray for who knows how long. I managed to get him to sit today when an English bull terrier approached but he still laid down when the other dog was close, he had his mouth open and a slow wagging tail whilst laying down this time, both were fine once interacting. I will see if I can get hold of a copy of those books cheaply :-)

Totally understandable and very sensible on your part, if you want to spend time with a trainer for your own piece of mind that's a good idea but choosing one can be a minefield.. You don't want to go with all positive or all aversive methods. IMO that's not the way to a balanced dog.. I train all of my dogs positively but they also know consequences for their actions. I picked those books up on amazon for a few quid each slow tail wag is a sign that he's unsure.. Just make sure that all greetings are positive and reward calm, confident behaviour. Well done on the initial sit though

Sorry, how old is he? And how old was he when you got him?

Iv given a local trainer a call and hopefully we will have an initial lesson and an assessment soon, it may be me that needs the training more than him anyway. He was a stray and they told us that he is less than one year based on his teeth. I have only had him for 2 weeks. He was in kennels from September last year till jan 4th. Other than this stalking/laying down thing he is an amazing little dog who has made dog ownership a lot easier than I was expecting it to be. At the moment I am using treats and cuddles as rewards and if he is naughty I try to talk firmly to him and if in the house tell him to go to his bed, he normally stays there till I call for him again or he needs the loo.

Hi guys time for an update!

I had a dog trainer visit and she said his behaviour is submissive and not to worry. We are focusing on getting a really good recall to get him out of any situation and we have a programme to teaching recall from scratch, and an attention focusing game.

Have you looked into using a long lead? This lets him roam while still allowing you control. The behaviour sounds submissive to me but I would limit interactions to dogs that are not aggressive.

Long lines are great for teaching recall and just generally keeping a bit of control and piece of mind   

Yes I am going to get a long line, it is part of the recall from scratch programme I have been given. I am still letting him off lead at my other main walking place, a huge huge wood where I go running with him. you can spend a whole day there and not see another person or thing, except the occasional deer.

hells85 wrote:Yes I am going to get a long line, it is part of the recall from scratch programme I have been given. I am still letting him off lead at my other main walking place, a huge huge wood where I go running with him. you can spend a whole day there and not see another person or thing, except the occasional deer.

Wow, those woods sound ideal to me   

Great idea with the long training lead, I'm sure this will be of benefit.

Yep, its the benefits of living in semi rural Wales, The woods is 300ha in size with a maze of footpaths and bridle ways

Do you want to do a home swap