Could I be a suitable owner.

Hi all! I'd just like to start this post by apologising for my poor forum etiquette. I'm not introducing myself as I don't plan to become a regular member on this site (as of right now). I'd love to, but sadly I'm not in the position to own a dog right now financially so I think it would just taunt me. The questions I'd like to ask seem quite rudimentary but a scan of the word 'flat' bought up some answers but not everything I needed to know. I couldn't see it in the FAQ and I don't trust Yahoo Answers from google to be authoritative. If this post has been answered explicitly or I am violating rules in anyway I'll gladly delete the thread.

With that aside I'll get to the point. I thing Staffies are absolutely fantastic dogs, loved my X's and I'd like one of my own in the future. The problem is I live in a flat on the 6th story. Now I know they can be kept happily in flats, but I'm not sure what types. The dimensions of my flat are actually pretty much exactly the same as the one on the BBC series 'Peep Show', if you are unfamiliar with this, 2 average sized bedrooms, a reasonable living room with enough space for a dining table as well as two sofas and a very small kitchen. Assuming I take my dog for two-three walks a day, is this sufficient space for him/her?

Another issue I would face owning a dog in a flat would be barking. My parents dogs have had some issues with barking in the past, being set off by odd noises etc. Is there any fair way to train this habit away? Or at least minimise it to an extent that it becomes trivial? If not are there any flat owners who have experience with this?

How long is it fair to leave a dog alone and unattended for? If I got a job (the reason it's as of yet a pip dream), I'd assume I would be working 9-5. It doesn't seem fair to leave a dog alone for this amount of time, but that makes me wonder how many people do haave dogs seeing as most people work or go to school etc. Is it a case of getting none or two? Or is it just untenable regardless?

What issues are there around taking the dog to the toilet when living in a flat without a garden? Would it be possible to have a litter tray int he bathroom and then using a bag to dispose of it the old fashioned way? Or would this for some reason be more unhygienic or problematic? If I were to take him/her outside would there be a way to train him/her to signal approximately 5 minutes before blast off, so I could get to an appropriate area with bags and the lead and the lift etc?

How much surplus income would you say it requires to own a Stafforshire? I appreciate this question is far from straightforward, say for example the dog were to have a health condition which required frequent treatment. But round about, with let's say 1 unexpected issue a year, how much spare cash (if such a thing exists) would someone need for you to be comfortable recommending them getting a staffie?

I think that's it for now. Any help would be much appreciated. Hope I'm in a position to become an owner soon.

Hi and hello / welcome to the forum from me and the kids

I can answer a few questions for you but not all of them

Space sounds fine a few of o0ur memebers live in flats and have no problems though I really don't know about the toilet training as ours had immediate access to the garden
Disposable income - If you want to keep to a bare minimum then you have the initial outlay of crates , beds , leads etc and the injections etc , probably £300 to cover that plus the cost of the pup . Food depends what you buy , for example I feed a mid range food to my 2 and buy 1 15kg bag every 4-6 weeks @ £40 , plus treats etc . And a must would be to take out insurance , especially if you are on a limited budget to avoid unexpected costs -- £15 - £20 a month depending on level etc.

My main concern is your talk of going to work . 9-5 when you know your plans is a long time to leave a dog alone and unfair on the dog . If you have support from family etc for dogsitting then it is ok and workable , if not then I would avoid it . Don't get me wrong we do have members that are out for long hours but mostly this is due to change of circumstances after getting their dog .

Welcome to the board.

I'll not answer everything but will say that as a fosterer/rehomer, I've no problem with dogs in flats.

Having kept in touch with the adopter, the biggest issue seems to be the lack of a widdle space - no opening a door so the dog can do its business in the garden, obviously, so you have to ask yourself, are you prepared to wander outside half a dozen times a day, or more, for poop and pee duties?

If getting a coat on at midnight in the rain will be a hassle, then you'll likely end up with a stained carpet.

Another issue can be windows on a non-ground floor flat - not sure why but they always seem to open far wider and be lower than those in houses, in my experience, anyway.

As for barking - seems dogs learn that barking gets them things. I never reward a bark, but maybe that's just me. Maybe coincidentally, none of my dogs tend to bark at all - some I've never heard even squeak beyond the first week.

The home alone thing is a whole can of worms - so many opinions on this. My personal view is that it's tolerable if the dog has reasonable access to space and has been thoroughly exercised before work (I'm out at 5 or 6am, for example), and has been mentally exercised in the morning, too (walking, on its own, doesn't necessarily cut it).

My dogs get to fetch sticks and hunt for sticks in the woods, then search for hidden treats in the house, in the morning, in addition to an hour of running about (not just a lead walk).

Let's see what others think.

It can work in the circumstances you describe but really not for a puppy. You need to consider whether or not you could pop in at lunch for walks and bathroom breaks or hire a dog walker. Most dogs can let you know they need to go long enough to get you outside to an appropriate place (sickness excluded). I can say it is possible, but far more practical if there are more than one caregiver. However, if you want something bad enough, you can usually make it happen (as long as you are realistic and realize it is a long-term commitment).

As far as money is concerned, it depends on where you live, food you feed, needs of the dog, dog walker, pet insurance... plus I think in US dollars which may not help you much. Maybe someone else can shed more light...

All great advice from Dave and Keith I can only echo this and the time alone would be my concern. They are very much a people breed and thrive on company. I only ever leave Vinnie 3 hours 4 maximum a day.
If you have someone that can exercise and take it for toilets inbetween, that may be different.
And as Keith mentioned mental stimulation is as important as physical.
Great that you are exploring options and advice though before having a dog.  

I can answer some of your questions as I live in a flat too with my hubby and Rocky. We have a ground floor flat with a garden and one bedroom, it is a one person flat officially although we were both housed here some 7 years ago and we have been trying to get out since.

We do have another member of staff here who lives in a flat above ground floor level who may be able to offer more in the way of advice for you.

Barking could become an issue for you but this would depend on the age of the dog when you get one, a puppy is more likely to be more noisy than say an older dog of 4 years or above.

Is your flat owned by you or by a housing association, with a housing association property you will need to get permission from the landlord before purchasing your dog/puppy.

Allow about £20 per month for pet insurance and about another £40 -£50 for food /treats etc. Flea treatments and worming treatment would be about another £10 per month on average.

Thank you for taking the time to ask these type of questions first, so many people act first then ask all the questions after the issues have begun.

I live in a a second floor flat. I am lucky in the fact that I work a total of 5 mins from my flat and can get back on my lunch hr and walk nel. Alot of people in my block own a dog of one kind or another. As for money for quality food and insurance I pay approx £60 a month (but she is worth it) plus I get all flea treatment and worming done in that price. Toilet training is a challenge and nel still has the odd accident now and then but if you get used to a routine with your dog out in the morning lunch evening and before bed then the dog learns to wait till you go out and as long as you praise and treat your pup for being a good boy/girl they get to know that outside for toilet inside no no.

Thanks all for the responses guys, you have covered everything and I am very grateful for the advice! Don't have any fears with the time issues, I will not be buying a dog unless I'm completely sure that it would be a happy suitable home.

It looks like the time issue has probably ruled me out for some time. The problem is, even if I got a job which allowed me to visit home for a hour a day at lunch, then there would still be the issue of that changing, switching jobs etc. I suppose maybe if I got paid well enough to afford a walker it would be a possibility. It's such a shame as I want a dog so much, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Thanks again everyone!

Glad we could help, I can't really add to the advise you've had already. Feel free to stick around the forum, dog lovers are welcome you don't have to own one  

shropshirecowmastiff wrote:Thanks all for the responses guys, you have covered everything and I am very grateful for the advice! Don't have any fears with the time issues, I will not be buying a dog unless I'm completely sure that it would be a happy suitable home.

It looks like the time issue has probably ruled me out for some time. The problem is, even if I got a job which allowed me to visit home for a hour a day at lunch, then there would still be the issue of that changing, switching jobs etc. I suppose maybe if I got paid well enough to afford a walker it would be a possibility. It's such a shame as I want a dog so much, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Thanks again everyone!

At least you are being sensible, sure all will be in place at the right time one day.
Do stick around here though and have a chat and a browse.  

Dog walking is not that expensive a month and if you really want a staff or any other dog breed you will make the sacrifices need to facilite that I myself have up smoking and have changed supermarkets (I kid you not) to make sure I can comfortably afford to have nel.

Firstly, good on you for considering all the possible issues before getting a dog  
Do you live near to a rescue?  You could volunteer to walk the 'inmates' which would give you a dog fix and lots of experience with different dogs.

Be VERY careful though - we walked for our local pound because we didn't have a suitable home for a dog.  We fell in love with a staffy that couldn't get a rescue space and ended up adopting her and moving house.  Hopefully you have got more will-power than us!

When we got Debo, he was 8 weeks and we lived on 3rd floor. So until he could go out side , we used training pads for toilet training. The fun began when he could go out. Taking him outside every 2-3hrs, after meal and sleep. But it wasn't something it couldn't be done. He got the idea of doing his business outside very quickly. About the barking. Staffies don't bark - a lot. I think the key is to ignore the barkong and rewards the silent time. I hope every thing work out fine for you so you could have your little friend for life.

Pretty much the only thing I know about Ledgers previous life before rescue was that he was housed in a flat and left all day by the previous owners.

I live in a 2 bed terrace with a yard but he won't toilet out there so we go out every couple of hours when I'm at home, as soon as I get up, before I go out, as soon as I get home etc and tbh he never goes toilet as soon as we reach the park frustratingly sometimes he has to find the perfect place! Obviously when it comes to work it depends what you do, luckily my Ledger stays at my parents for some of my shifts, and I also have a dog walker that I can call on I book a full hour for £10 but there are cheaper options just to break the day up. And on night shifts he sleeps anyway so stays at home

It can work with the right dog, dogs trust Shrewsbury matched Ledger to me and persuaded me to take him earlier than I had planned, as others have said pop in to some of the rescues, walk a few dogs and see how you get on.

Keep us all informed

Great info and tips above, so I don't have much too add either.

I do want to commend you for thoroughly analyzing your situation BEFORE getting a dog. It's not fair to own a dog if you can't give it the environment it needs.

Regarding Indoor Toilet Training - I think you could get away with no outside access with a puppy up to 4 months. After that, i'm not so sure. Staff's get bigger around that age and so does their poop! I wouldn't want to come home to an indoor toilet past the puppy phase.  

Time alone - Agree with above, Staff's are very people oriented and can be very clingy with their owners. I work and luckily Bacon stays home with my parents. Luckily, this works well for me. Do you maybe have some family members that would be willing to convince to watch your dog during the day? My parents aren't even dog people and I got them to accept this deal!  

I hope you are able to figure a way to get yourself a Stafford! If you want it enough, you'll make it happen somehow. Good Luck and Welcome!

The fact that you are asking all these questions proves that, when the time is right, you will be a most excellent staffie owner. However, I agree with others that leaving the dog all day by him/her self is by far the worst element in your description. Esp. for a staffie which is a dog that enjoys company so much. S/he could really suffer. Small flat doesnt matter, 6th floor doesnt matter (though i dont believe 2-3 walks will be enough. For toilet purposes, it has to be more like 4 minimum, 5 ideal - I speak as another flat-dweller). Between walks, my dog indicates if he needs to go out. It's not so much that I taught him to tell me - more that I can read the signs. He's never bluffing. I wanted a dog for years, but felt it was fair to let the poor old cat pass (at the age of 22) before welcoming the whirlwind. I also, personally, didnt feel I could offer a suitable home while I worked full-time in an office. Now that I run my own business, the flexibility is great and dog breaks are scheduled into the work commitments. Or I just take Doug with me! However, I realise that this wouldnt work for everyone. When working from home, Douglas can go anywhere he likes within this fairly large flat. However, he never chooses to be more than about 6 feet away. That's the kind of people-dog that a staffie is. When Douglas barks, it's unusual.

Hello

I can answer a couple of your questions from experience..

The problem is I live in a flat on the 6th story. Now I know they can be kept happily in flats, but I'm not sure what types. The dimensions of my flat are actually pretty much exactly the same as the one on the BBC series 'Peep Show', if you are unfamiliar with this, 2 average sized bedrooms, a reasonable living room with enough space for a dining table as well as two sofas and a very small kitchen. Assuming I take my dog for two-three walks a day, is this sufficient space for him/her?

I live in a one bedroom flat on the second floor. We've had Axl since he was 8 weeks old and he's now nearly two. I never had any kind of litter tray as Axl was trained to go outside since he was little. We used to put paper down by the door and then gradually we reduced the paper and eventually no paper but very regular toilet breaks until he learnt that outside was where he did his business. He now goes out to toilet roughly every four hours, I take him first thing in the morning, about 8am, the next one is on his first walk at around 12 midday, then at 4pm, then I take him when I get back from work at 6.30pm and he will go out on his final toilet break at 10.30-11pm. This works for us as I work days and my boyfriend works nights so he's never alone. We did have a short while where we were both working days but we were lucky enough to have a friend who would have him all day for us so I can't answer any questions about leaving him alone. What I would say is that Axl gets a lot of exercise and has is hardly ever left for more than 2 to 3 hours.

Another issue I would face owning a dog in a flat would be barking. My parents dogs have had some issues with barking in the past, being set off by odd noises etc. Is there any fair way to train this habit away? Or at least minimise it to an extent that it becomes trivial? If not are there any flat owners who have experience with this?

I'm not sure why but Axl hardly ever barks, I think it was because when we first got him I was very concious of living in a flat so I didn't encourage it from him, he barks on command and he will bark if he see's a fox while on the balcony but I send him inside and he stops. I don't know if I "trained" him not to bark in any way but I just didn't encourage it and when he did bark he got sent inside or out of the room. Maybe that's why?!

How long is it fair to leave a dog alone and unattended for? If I got a job (the reason it's as of yet a pip dream), I'd assume I would be working 9-5. It doesn't seem fair to leave a dog alone for this amount of time, but that makes me wonder how many people do haave dogs seeing as most people work or go to school etc. Is it a case of getting none or two? Or is it just untenable regardless?

I personally wouldn't get two dogs if you live in a flat, one will be plenty enough in my opinion, it might get a bit too tight with two. Also if you are going out and leaving them, I don't think its a good idea to leave them alone together, you would probably have to leave one in one room and the other in a separate room. Also, if you need to work 9-5 I'd seriously recommend getting someone to come over and walk your dog at least once a day otherwise you may run into some problems as the dog may get bored/lonely.

What issues are there around taking the dog to the toilet when living in a flat without a garden? Would it be possible to have a litter tray int he bathroom and then using a bag to dispose of it the old fashioned way? Or would this for some reason be more unhygienic or problematic? If I were to take him/her outside would there be a way to train him/her to signal approximately 5 minutes before blast off, so I could get to an appropriate area with bags and the lead and the lift etc?

I think I answered this up above but the answer is you would need to take your dog outside for toileting. Axl goes roughly (and sometimes it differs) every four hours apart from overnight, his last toilet is around 10.30pm-11pm and he will go all night until around 8am in the morning. As a puppy we crated him at night and he didn't mess. He would have a section of newspaper by the door that he toileted on until he was old enough to go walkies. When he was old enough we slowly trained him to go outside by reducing the newspaper patch until there was no newspaper and at that point we would take him out every time he sniffed around where the newspaper used to be. Eventually he got the idea that outside was where he toileted. I have trained him to wee on command, when I take him outside I say "go wee wee" and he does lol

I hope that's answered some of your questions!

welcome to the forum, as for leaving alone during the day i cant comment to much as im lucky that between me and hubby someone is nearly always home for Marley, as for cost this is Marley's run down per month, food around £15, insurance £27, vip plan at vets £13 (covers flea and wormer, vet and nurse checkup and booster jabs) treats a million pound lol, then take in to account coats in winter, new toys, replacing leads and harnesses when needed and all the other things our beloved staffies rinse us for  
not sure how well an adult dog would do for toilet wise in a flat??
So nice that you are asking all the questions though, some little staffie will be lucky to be in your life soon enough!

Thanks again for all the replies guys! It's good to read and see all the different perspectives. I really look forward to being part of the community one day when I can get a staffie of my own

Unfortunately the current situation is that I'm alone in Glasgow except for my housemate! So no friends/family to rely on (as he will work similar hours and not on a stable basis), the nearest person I know would be 200 miles away! But maybe when I'm a bit more established... The good news is that it looks pretty conclusive that with enough walks and attention my flat would be a perfectly suitable home, which is good. Other things can be worked on, that's the main thing. So I think overall this is very positive

We still live in the flat with Debo. He's 19mnths now and he had never destroy anything. Maybe we were lucky or we just prepared him well for that. The only thing we are coming back home to are open wardrobes.

I lived in a small flat with Rupert, no problem - but near a park so lots of opportunities for training and working off excess energy. You could try volunteering for fostering a dog. You could foster for a couple of weeks and see how you feel . When I did it I had the most enormous amount of help from the rescue centre - I didn't know much about dogs at the time and it taught me so much. If you get an older dog they will not need as much exercise. Can you afford a dog walker to take him out half way through the day? Or a friend?