Collie growling during feeding.

Hi guys.

I know this is a Staffie forum but I need some advice regarding another of my dogs.
As you may know, I have three dogs. Ceasar the Staffie, Chiko the Collie and Jake the Akita
The Collie I have ( 2yrs ) has become very food aggressive and has growled at both myself, my daughter
and my three year old son ( over a bit of bread ).
Today during feeding time he was really guarding his bowl, especially when I walked past so I took possession of it.
He did not growl this time but I claimed the bowl and gave the food to my other dogs.

I don`t think he will bite any of the kids but I just cannot chance it. Especially now that my wife is five months
pregnant but he has attacked the other dogs over the most stupid things.
Last week he attached Jake the Akita over a pickled onion. He also attached Ceasar over the crust of a slice of
bread. If he growls at us, he gets told off he comes cowering over to who ever he has growled at and goes into
full submission. Belly showing, bum in the air.

He has growled at me once. My daughter twice and the little fella once. Last week my three year old son was
out in the back when Chiko attached the Jake. The three dogs had a free for all with Ceasar trying to break the fight up. I never allow the little fella to be alone with the dogs but he sneaked out.
My nine year old son ran out to the garden and pulled them apart. Luckily he didn`t get bit and the little fella
was in the shed where the dogs sleep.

I hate to give up on any dog. The Akita was food aggressive when we got him but he has been trained out of it by
the wife, my daughter and I but he never growled at any of us. He did attack Ceasar a few times during feeding though. They get on fine now but Chiko is starting rows at least once a week. I can`t take a chance with the kids.

Should I cut my loses and move the dog on or risk training him and hope he never bites one of the kids.

Not an expert on collies at all but some other members have owned them and can probably advise you better than I can.

In my extremely limited experience of Border Collies (which I presume Chiko is) I understand that they are very intelligent, full of energy and stamina and need loads of mental and physical work-outs every day to keep them happy and contented.

Sorry I can't help, but I'm sure someone will be along who can!

Ceasar wrote:
He did not growl this time but I claimed the bowl and gave the food to my other dogs.

First mistake, I'm afraid. He is protecting his food, so you've given him more reason to be protective - you've taken it away!

What I'd suggest is, in order to avoid any possessiveness, feed him by hand. Put his bowl down, empty. Get him to sit and wait & then drop a couple of pieces of food into the bowl. Let him eat & then gradually drop the food, a couple of pieces at a time into his bowl until it's finished. Don't feed him with or near the other dogs yet! Once you're happy with his behaviour, move your hand nearer the bowl when you drop the food in. As he gets more confident of you being there & controlling his food, you can move your hand nearer & nearer until it's literally inside the bowl while he's eating.

At that point you can try letting him eat in the same room as the other dogs, but don't allow any swapping & changing of bowls - once one has finished, the bowl is removed & the finished dog is told to sit & wait.

Whilst this is going on, work on a very strong "Leave" command which will help if he forgets his manners at any time.

Also, try holding a treat in your closed fist. Let him sniff it but not have it. Give him a command (anything will do, but sit generally works well) and then reward. Have all your family do the same. If he growls, stand up, walk away & put the treat away - he doesn't get it at all. Leave it a couple of minutes & try again.

My mums collie has always been very protective over her food, she will allow us to take it away but not without growling, weve always taken it away but given it straight back with lots of praise and she still grumbles but never attacks. She is very vocal, she's 10 and has always been the same

It isn't a collie trait. Food possession aggression isn't a particular trait of any breed!

It's almost always because a dog doesn't have full confidence that he'll get his food/toy as long as he's behaving himself. If a dog is totally confident with his owners he won't be food aggressive.

When was he last checked by the vet ?, he may also be in pain which is causing him to act like this.

Caryll wrote:It isn't a collie trait. Food possession aggression isn't a particular trait of any breed!

It's almost always because a dog doesn't have full confidence that he'll get his food/toy as long as he's behaving himself. If a dog is totally confident with his owners he won't be food aggressive.

I wasn't saying its a trait because I know that this behaviour is unacceptable in any circumstance never mind with children involved.

Millie is very insecure, this is due to being treated more like a baby than a dog. My mum takes full responsibility for that, my parents then got another dog .. That's where the possession started and her insecurities came out.

Collies are very intelligent, and intuitive. However they are a working breed and have lots of energy and think quickly and instinctively. I would follow Caryll's advice, I was going to give the same. Don't ever take food away from a food aggressive dog, this will just make them worse. You need to take the food til the growling stops and give it back ASAP.

Nosipho wrote:Collies are very intelligent, and intuitive. However they are a working breed and have lots of energy and think quickly and instinctively. I would follow Caryll's advice, I was going to give the same. Don't ever take food away from a food aggressive dog, this will just make them worse. You need to take the food til the growling stops and give it back ASAP.

The growling stops almost instantly. He gives a short growl and that's it. He has almost always done this to the
other dogs, yet they can all eat face to face if food has been scattered on the ground.
Submission always follows the growl and his food is usually returned.
He has changed a bit lately. He is not in pain and was in great form earlier when I brought them all for a run.

Today he attached Ceasar twice for lying on the dog mattress. All the dogs sleep in the shed and they have a
doggie mattress in the garden to sleep on when its too warm for the shed and for napping during the day.
Chiko came out of the shed this morning and attacked Ceasar while he was sleeping on the mattress.
This happened twice while I was in work.

He has never snapped at anyone but I don`t think I can take a chance especially with a new baby on the way.
It has been very hard trying to work, keeping time for the family and training three puppy`s.

Ceasar wrote:
He has never snapped at anyone but I don`t think I can take a chance especially with a new baby on the way.It has been very hard trying to work, keeping time for the family and training three puppy`s.

Does that mean you plan to get rid and not try to overcome the problem?

Its not because your pregnant is it that this is happening ?? i have heard weird things happening with dogs , when there owners are pregnant ,

also how much excersize does this dog get ?? collies are renowed for needing alot of work and can get snappy if they dont get it , my mum has had collies all her life, but alot of them have been used to working the sheep as we lived on farms when i was a kid , mum's retired now and her latest collie is not a working dog and is now 10 years old so is quite placcid , but when she was younger my mum had to give her so much excersize because she wasnt rounding the sheep up , she used to walk her at the side of the horse and the bike etc to give her what she needed . my mum now 73 said she would never take on a young collie again because shes too old now to give one the excersize it needs , and for 73 my mum is very active but wouldnt have the energy a collie needs

infact my neighbour has one and im terrified of it its vicious and always has been , my mum swaers alot of it is lack of excersize with it

miss npo wrote:Its not because your pregnant is it that this is happening ??  i have heard weird things happening with dogs , when there owners are pregnant ,

also how much excersize does this dog get ?? collies are renowed for needing alot of work and can get snappy if they dont get it ,  

Both very good points!

Also what do you feed it on ? alot of collie owners make the mistake of feeding them working dog food which makes them even more hyper when infact unless it is attually working then it doesnt need it

miss npo wrote:Also what do you feed it on ? alot of collie owners make the mistake of feeding them working dog food which makes them even more hyper  when infact unless it is attually working then it doesnt need it

You may be right. He is fed working dog food but has been for almost a year now.
I`ll be honest is saying that his exercise routine has been cut lately due to the warm weather.
The other dogs were just not able for it. Tonight they got a great run out.
They are never on the lead. Only the Akita goes on the lead until it is safe to let him off, so their walks are
pretty intense and a lot of the time include swimming in the local pod.

I`m putting the effort into training but it will be in vain if he turns again. The wife wont tolerate another
episode. Fingers crossed all works out.

Thanks for the replies guys.

PS. Its the wife that is pregnant.

Hi guys,

Glad to report that everything is fine with Chiko (the Collie ).
No more growling when you approach the bowl. He is still protective over the food, as in, he drops the head into the bowl when you try to remove it. He then rolls over and shows his belly though.

I blame having three very young boisterous dogs. Things have calmed down big time between the three of them but the Akita can be a bit of a pain at feeding time.

Glad to hear that it has gotten better! thanks for the update

It has been really hard looking after three pups.

Never again..LOL

So glad things are improving!

Hard work, but you've done well by the sound of it.

That's brilliant, so happy your hard work has paid off

Just seen this. Three is a lot but you have to do feeding the way that you have been! Glad it is working and Caryll's advice is spot on!

Thanks guys.

Believe me though, it has been hard work having three pups.
Its even harder now that the collie and Staffie are almost two.
They have really started to smell themselves ( pardon the pun )
and suddenly Ceasar ( the Staffie ) has gone from a carefree ambitionless pup to a contender for top dog.