Two sides to every story

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Post by Galadriel Wed Mar 27 2013, 09:37

Saw this and have been waiting for it to pop up here but as it hasn't yet, I'll post.

It's in relation to https://staffy-bull-terrier.niceboard.com/t33786-dog-attack-photos-released

It was on Facebook but as I can't link, I'll copy it in.

"As a rational adult I know there are always two sides to every story.

As a dog owner I know that incidents between two dogs can happen but not without reason. These reasons are not always apparent to humans.

As a Staffordshire Bull Terrier owner I know people can make unfounded judgements.

For these reasons, when the pictures and post from the owner of Spot, were shared on Facebook I refused to contribute to what became a viral manhunt campaign. Assumptions were made regarding dog fighting. There was gossip, hearsay, racism as well as negativity against the bull breed in general. I was shocked and disgusted by some of the comments I was seeing. I was so disgusted that I ended up willing my friends and rescue contacts not to share the post until all of the facts were known. Eventually, when the post did pop up in my news feed, I tried to remind people that we didn't know all of the facts and that accusations of deliberate dog fighting were just that, accusations and assumptions. I also felt compelled to find the owner of the dog being brandished a devil dog to get his version of events and dispel any rumours of him having any connection to dog fighting. Being local to the area I have been able to do this and here is his version of events – WITHOUT PREJUDICE

His name is Enzo, a Staffordshire Bull Terrier cross American Bulldog and he is a family dog. He was taken in by his 20 year old university student owner when he was being given away at the age of 4/5 months and not in the best condition. Enzo is his first dog. He took good care of Enzo and got him back up to full health. Enzo is a great dog around people (including children) and female dogs. As an un-neutered adolescent male dog he wasn’t that great with other male dogs, which, as most dog owners know isn't unusual. For this reason, he was always walked on a choke chain and lead because he pulls (please note – I do not condone the use of full choke chains but understand that people do use them as training tools).

On the day in question, Friday the 15th of March, Enzo was out with his owner for a walk around the Ouse Valley Golf Club area in Biddenham on his choke chain and lead. They were about 20 metres away from Spot and his owner when Spot started barking. This alerted Enzo to Spot's presence. Enzo had not been pulling on his choke chain (so it was loose) and he backed up. This action meant that he was able to get free from his collar. Enzo ran over to Spot, who was off lead, and his owner ran after him. The two dogs became involved in a fight and despite what the photographs on Facebook show, Spot was fighting back. Enzo’s owner estimates that the fight lasted for no more than seven to eight minutes and during that time Spot’s owner hit Enzo with her lead and the two passers-by hit Enzo which only succeeded in exacerbating the situation. It is understandable that people panic in these situations and Enzo’s owner was trying to deal with the dogs calmly. He put his hands in Enzo’s mouth to break up the fight and then restrained Enzo.

Once the dogs had been separated, the owner offered to pay Spot’s vet fees but his owner wanted to go through insurance which Enzo’s owner did not have. Thinking that dog insurance works in the same way as car insurance (i.e. you have to have it), Enzo’s owner panicked and gave false details. Enzo’s owner states that 38 photographs were taken by Spot’s owner and that she was I fact bitten by her own dog, not Enzo. Enzo’s owner did not just run away, he viewed the pictures that had been taken whilst apologising and still offering to pay for Spot’s vet fees. He felt that he had done all that he could and both owners went their separate ways.

Then the manhunt started on Facebook. As a result of this Enzo’s owner received death threats and he and his family have been harassed on the street. He felt that he had no choice but to go to the police with Enzo and was made to sign Enzo over. To the owners knowledge, Enzo has not been classed as a pitbull type but has been destroyed under the Dangerous Dogs Act. At present, he is unclear as to what section of the Dangerous Dogs Act exactly because it has not been properly explained to him. No charges have been brought against Enzo’s owner at this time.

By writing and publishing this account, I am in no way playing down the injuries that Spot sutained or the distress Spot’s owner must have felt, or condoning Enzo's owner for giving false details.

My sole purpose for writing this is to put forward the other side of the story in the interests of fairness."

Then there was this on Beverley Cuddy's (from Dogs Today) Facebook page:

"In tears here. That poor boy. He is just a boy. The police came to his house yesterday to have him sign the destruction order. They told him it would be bad for him if he didn't do it. That Enzo was a dangerous breed - he think they said that he was 'type' and it woud lbe bad for him in court if he didn't give him up - he felt pressurised - he had no one to ask for advice. He loved that dog as his friend - he played with the dog every day, the first dog that had ever been in his family. He said he had looked into his eyes and saw a friend in need. He hadn't wanted a dog, but no one else wanted Enzo, he was badly underweight. He told me in his religion dogs are not allowed - that they scare the angels away, but he'd looked into those eyes and his heart ruled head.

Enzo was only a year old. The police told him he can't have the ashes or the body. He is only talking to me to make sure everyone knows he is totally disgusted by dog fighting - he was getting death threats on the street from people saying he bred Pit Bulls to fight. He wishes he could turn the clock back and give the woman his phone number. She mentioned insurance and he panicked - he thought it was like cars and he should have been insured. He'd have found the money to pay the vet bill. He had wrestled on the ground put his hands in Enzo's mouth to get him to let go of Spot who was biting his face and ears. He knew Enzo wouldn't ever hurt him. He had papers from a vet that said Enzo was a Staffie cross, he would never have taken on a Pit Bull, a banned breed. He said he'd have been too scared. This dog lived with the family he lodges with. He's a first year uni student who just took on a dog that no one wanted and didn't have any peer group to ask for help onf how you train dogs. He says he didn't have the money to neuter, how would he know about reduced fee neutering? Total tragedy. But I told him that Enzo had a year of being loved that he wouldn't have had if he hadn't taken him in. He misses him, he was part of his family. He may rescue another one but he will get more advice this time. Will write my notes up tomorrow when I can see clearer. RIP Enzo. You were loved. You won't be forgotten."

Latest news is that apparently Enzo hasn't yet been PTS.

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Post by Guest Wed Mar 27 2013, 09:44

The first thing I wrote on that fb post was that we didn't have the facts and I wouldn't assume anything until we did. I thought it was more likely to be this type of situation than any other as the behaviour was not that of someone involved in dog fighting. Where he involved in dog fighting that little spot would have been dead in seconds and the owner of enzo would not have stuck around to get his dog off.

Thanks for posting this.

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Post by Guest Wed Mar 27 2013, 09:45

I agree there is always two sides. There is probably still more unknowns.

The first bit was in the original topic. I haven't seen the 2nd bit.

I thought the dog looked a bit older than a year old tbh, but again it's hard to know.

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Post by Galadriel Wed Mar 27 2013, 09:56

MatLogan wrote:I agree there is always two sides. There is probably still more unknowns.

The first bit was in the original topic. I haven't seen the 2nd bit.

I thought the dog looked a bit older than a year old tbh, but again it's hard to know.

Oh sorry, didn't know the first bit was in the original post.

I too think there are probably more unknowns.

It's just a very sad story. How the whole thing was handled was wrong IMO. I can't stand Facebook witch hunts that are often lacking in facts.

Thankfully Spot is now fine (and IMO that shows a lot of of restraint from Enzo). I only hope Enzo hasn't been PTS and is given another chance.

I do feel for his owner, his ignorance has cost him his dog and I think if this had've been handled differently, he could have been taught how to handle his dog responsibly. Not using a coke chain for starters.

As do I feel for Spot's owner. Hopefully some lessons will be learnt from this and then at least some good can come of it.

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Post by Staffy lover Wed Mar 27 2013, 09:56

Well since Enzo hasnt yet been pts, I would flight for him again. I read that thread, and to be fair, I thought something is not right there, that woman taking that many photos.............. nah something going on there! I saw the horror and shock in that lads face on the pictures and just knew he wasnt the kind to let his dog fight. Since the ladys dog also was involved in the flight, something needs to be done about her dog too.... I would suggest going back to the police and demand the reasons why, cos there is something going on there.
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Post by Guest Wed Mar 27 2013, 09:58

Galadriel wrote:Oh sorry, didn't know the first bit was in the original post.

I too think there are probably more unknowns.

It's just a very sad story. How the whole thing was handled was wrong IMO. I can't stand Facebook witch hunts that are often lacking in facts.

No need to apologise your post is very informative Smile

I too hate Facebook witch hunts, they achieve nothing.

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Post by Galadriel Wed Mar 27 2013, 10:10

Have just noticed the following on Beverly Cuddy's Facebook page, she interviewed Spot's owner too:

"Need a cup of tea, it was good that she spoke to me but the headline is she doesn't think Enzo is yet dead. The police contacted her yesterday for her vet's details. She thought they had experts assessing him to see if he is a Pit Bull, that it was not yet definite that he would die. She said that it was never her objective for Enzo to die, that she just wanted the owner to take responsibility.

She is a dog lover - she hashad dogs in the family all her life - relatives with big dogs like Rotties and GSD - she says she has nothing against Staffies etc.
She did not even know what BSL stood for - she is not very aware of dog politics... she'd just put her trust in the police to do the right thing.
She's had a lot of very negative things posted on her business facebook - so much so she's had to take it down. She is obviously upset and wants to put this all behind her and move on.

Spot is much better, still on antibiotics. But by the sounds of it the two guys 'helping' probably did most of the damage trying to pull the dogs apart. Enzo had clamped down on Spot's balls - he had submitted - she says Spot didn't fight back but that when she got bitten it was hard to say who did it - it was frenetic at that point and it didn't matter - that was never an issue. She says she loves all dogs but she does feel people have to be responsible for the dog's behaviour, bring them up properly, insure them, chip them, train them, vaccinate etc.
Had Enzo's owner not given her false details the photos would never have gone up on facebook and she'd not have gone to the police.
She didn't expect it to go viral. She just had no other way of contacting him. When she talked to the Mail he still hadn't come forward.
She is sorry that Enzo might die, but she feels it is up to the Police and RSPCA to decide the outcome.

So apparently Enzo's fate is still not quite certain... but now he has been signed over by his owner I think it unlikely that there will be anything other than a sad ending."

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Post by Staffy lover Wed Mar 27 2013, 11:03

And what did she have to say about finding time to take photos instead of helping her dog............ angry Like her I have grown up with dogs, and yet to find time to take photos instead of coming to your dogs aid, sorry but I will never understand that ever! I dont use facebook, cos its not private, so therefore she knew what she was doing when using facebook.
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Post by salesgirl Wed Mar 27 2013, 17:04

This is such a terribly sad story. Makes my heart break for Enzo and his owner. A dog will fight back when confronted with another dog head on. The owner of Spot knew what they were doing when they put it on Facebook. More bad publicity for the Staff! Of course other breeds never attack do they?!
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Post by Guest Wed Mar 27 2013, 18:13

Thanks for posting this. Sounds like a tragic situation brought on by a bit of ignorance and panic, and in the end, no-one wins Sad hope Enzo will get to live, and glad Spot is doing well.

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Post by Guest Thu Mar 28 2013, 18:53

Thank you everyone for your updates on this story.

Personally, I will never understand why the spaniel's owner stood back and took photos.

It seems that Enzo has now been destroyed.


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Post by Nathan Thu Mar 28 2013, 22:34

This has really got on my nerves, the whole facebook witch hunt and the labeling of a dog as a killer has been bugging me.
If the dog had wanted to kill it would have done, quite easily and very quickly and it wouldnt have lasted so long with only bite marks. ive seen the attack reported as lasting anywhere between 10 mins and 30 mins...
I'll share a story with you know that I didnt really want to go public with as I know what people are like and this story proves it.
please dont judge me or my dogs by this but I feel the need to share and explain what a dog is like when it "goes for the kill" my dogs arnt DA and the following is pure prey drive which all our dogs have to varying degrees. it could be yours but this time it was mine and i share because of this story and its debatable "facts" read on and you decide
Last sunday after marley was howling at the back door for what i thought was poo time I let them out into the garden just before we were going for a walk. I started cleaning the food bowls and wonderd what was taking there time. I went outside and they were pacing the patio at the side of the house which means they had caught a scent. I went in to get the harnesses when marley my eldest ran into the bush at the top of the garden and i could hear scrabbling up the fence. i thought he was trying to escape again and ran outside, he came flying out the bush with a fully grown fox in his mouth grabbed halfway down its back. about halfway down it turned and bit into his mouth/lip and made him shriek in pain at which laska took her bite at its neck. they then pushed down and it was over in seconds as I pulled marley off. it wasnt a frenzy, no ripping or pulling just a fight to a cold calculated kill that took less than 60 seconds from start to finish, crushing bites not ripping and once done they walked away like nothing had happend. although i was tense at net walk they were perfect around other dogs, marley ignored and laska wanted to play. I did call his breeders who got a dog behaviorist friend to call me and reassure me that socialised dogs posed no problem to other dogs and that prey drive was different to DA thank god.
now back to the story, had this dog intended to kill im sure it would have, and very quick as it was bigger than my dogs, i suspect something was stopping it, inflicting damage yes but wanting a kill no. this would indicate a defence stance.
trust me a bite and hold on a leg isnt a a killing stratagy or a fighting dog trait its more i want to keep you where i can see you...
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